Arcanum, worse than the Infinity Engine

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I did say to the best of my knowledge, so it's possible that stealth was factored in like that. It's been a while since I ever read anything regarding the bulk of its mechanics and the above was mostly from memory.

And you're correct on the seamless day/night thing. Didn't mentioned it because I think it was done right, although I seem to remember Arcanum also had this but wasn't as fluid.

 

[kohla]

@kc, if you don't know, you can right-click on your party members portrait to give them commands like wait, attack, back-off, get closer, spread-out. You can even view their stats and inventories which is very handy.
After several disastrous attempts my human-female is doing fine now. She specializes in speechcraft, throwing and the magica schools of mental and summoning.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Though your alter ego think I'm an:

obnoxious little shit

I love Arcanum to much to let anybody miss out on the rpg-opportunities it offers, even you, dear kingcomrade. :wink:

Now, Arcanum is my all time favorite game! Although I played Fallout until my fingers bled, I only finished it once. Arcanum on the other hand, made a hell of a greater imapct on me than Fallout. As of today Arcanum is still the only crpg I`ve finished more than twice, and then for a grand total of six run-throughs. The reason for that is (obviously) not game mechanics but the different "feel" the game gives it type of npc-responses, quest-developement and even main-quest eventuation depending on not only character type, but how you play the game. And of course the setting it self: 19th century england-ish with orcs, elves and magic! I get chills down my spine just writing it...

Now as you have realized, combat is what it is, and I must say, it anoyed the hell out of me the first time I played it. But after i found rather quickly that the other gameplay kept me coming for more. Fallout has great tactical cobmbat, which add to gameplay, Arcanum do not. It is as easy as that. (I recall I used to play Arcanum in turns with Jagged Alliance to fill in my needs for some tactics...) Anway, I tend to disregard combat in Arcanum as a game feature, and exploit the hell out of it. I realize this alone will break the game for some, but for me it worked like a charm. With that said tho, I would like to mention I'm not usually an exploiting-kind-of-guy, I play by the rules and frown upon those who don't. But in Arcanum it is plain impossible to enjoy the game without i. I downright refuse to belive anyone who says they played through the game without exploiting.

I the beginning i avoid combat as much as possible, but at one point or another you need the combat-xp. So this is Now there are several options to do this depending on character but three is pretty much a rule of thumb:

Focus your points in intelligence and charisma!
These two bitches open all the dialogue-options to avoid combat. I tied to play as a pit-fighter orc, but I gave up before I reached Tarrant. This is an example of BAD character developement. Level 33 with ten in INT and fucking EIGHT in CHA! He is a badass meelee aprentice tho...

Get the dog!
A bit of a spoiler, but the first thing i allways do after leaving Shrouded Hills is straight to Ashbury to get the dog. As it levels it makes combat a no-issue, you can basically play combat in real-time. I was so fortunate i found it alive in my first time through.

Don't use firearms!
Firearmes are underpowered as hell, instead of restricting ammo they nerfed the arms. Don't use em' if you don't have to, due to you your own role-play decision/restriction. Even when playing a mech-focused character allways used meelee. And I wouldn't in any case recommend mech-focus for a first time through. Even though it is the one I like the most, it is definately the hardest character-type to play as.

Depending on character-type:

The allready mentioned grenade-exploit.
I rarely use this one tho, as it is so IMMERSHUN-breaking..

The allready mentioned dodge mastery.
In combination with the dog in real-time, it is quite entertaining.

The mean motherfucking bacstabbing thief!
Focus on DEX and become expert in backstabbing. With this one I can solo lage groups of ore golems with a (if there were such a thing) at fairly low-level. Besides, it is a special feeling to backstab half-ogres with a claymore.

There are some magick-exploits aswell, but I don't remember any right now, I'm sure googling it would generate quite many hits...

Firstly, it is buggy as I can't even begin to describe, with menus flashing up and down sometimes at random and panels that won't display

Do you play with the latest fan-patch applied? Jinxed and DU from the board (among others) has this great site called Terra Arcanum whith a shitload of Arcanum related stuf. By the way, it was through that site I ended up reading the codex on a daily basis, a couple years ago...

To get the information you need to properly conduct turn-based battle, you have to bring up a severely restricting menu which blocks out 50+% of the screen (higher resolution than the 640x480 or whatever it runs at would probably fix this)

What menu ? The ap-indicator? You need a bigger monitor if that hogs 50% of your view.
And I certanly think the resolution can be increased, tho I always play with the latest patch, so I don't remember if it can't be increased in vanilla.

Party management is even less in-depth than FO1,

Party management in Fallout? What party? If you mean Fallout Tactics, it ain't number one, and it sure ain't fallout in my book. If you were thinking of infinity enginge-games, i uderstand what you mean tho. Anyway, I like the party management through dialogues, I think it makes the party feel more independent, more npc, than i.e. infinity engine-type where all characters are main characters. And regarding retarded AI, sure you play with it on the "smartest" level, I always was thinking they picked up too fucking much! When ever I am managing my inventory, which by the way is TRULY retarded, they always pick up random shit i place on the ground.

Probably the most retarded thing I've seen is the sheer number of critical misses.
Just how likely is it for a person to shoot themselves an average of four times per encounter? Or stab themselves with their sword a similar number of times? Or how about my favorite, you shoot a gun, it critically misses, then you lose stamina points and fall unconscious because that totally makes sense. I can't count the number of times I've had my guy shoot his pistol and either die or fall unconscious. Perhaps it's for the better that they didn't include sneezing in the game, such a terribly powerful force might cause your character to need medical treatment every time he gets a bit of fuzz in his nose.

Quoted for truth. I couldn't agree more on this one, it extremely anoing. I would love a patch to fix this, it is basically only a number that needs to be changed... My character gets scarred/wounded/ana lhemorrhoids far to often. An since it is only a couple of places in the game where this kan be healed (one of which very early in the game), it qualifies as permanent damage to stats. The frequency of these injuries aer higher than leveling for chist sake! As of yet, the only choice I have when it happens is either to suck it up, or use the dreaded save/reload! That's not role-playing it's just moronic.

The roleplaying part of the game is excellent

Once agein, quoted for truth.

On a side note:

Couldn't fight the brigands, couldn't do anything - i was just fucked.

Now to be fair, you fucked up.

There are several peaceful options to get past the gate. (I am assuming you talk about the brigands who guard the gate in Shrouded Hills.) Some specific ones I rememer is to tell lie and claim you are part of he thieves underground, do a quest for the brigands, fuck up some property and frame them, or as you mentioned: pickpocet the leader.

Now this is something I love this game for:

If your character is so uptight you decide not to tell a lie, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you if you mess up their quest, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you miss out on the opportunities the game offers, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you have low picpocket-skill or the leader succede in his saving-throw, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you are a fighter with some wit, you can recruit an half-ogre in the tavern to help out. If your joint figthing abillity ain't enough to beat the crap of those brigands, you either are out of luck, or you suck at games, and shouldn't be playing them in the first place. In any case, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you are a dumb fighter and don't get the dialogue options, tough shit, face the consequences, and as a bounus you fucked up the rest of the game aswell as you are missing out on the things the game do good.

Stupid players, who make stupid decisions get punished, as it should be!


Edit: Ok, i suck at writing long, witty replies. It has been a lot of action since i started writing. This was intended somewhere on the first side.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

PS "Beat with an ugly stick"
Classic
Especially for people like me who like to play low charisma characters.

You miss out on a lot of fun with low charisma. Low INT, on the other side, has a certain charm to it, as all vocal interaction with the world is reduced to grunts and one-syllable words.

Evil, with high charisma is a very enternaining altenative!

 

[bryce777]

Okay I figured out what that screen way, Bryce. When you apply the patch it creates a new .exe called Arcanum Full Screen which, when you play, gets rid of most of the interface, which you have to bring up with the letter "m" but if you use the original Arcanum shortcut, it's always there.

By the way, my new character just did a critical hit on himself and died. It would help if I knew what some of these acronyms meant. I know DR means Damage Resistance, but most of the others I'm lost on.

You should download the manual. You can get it off of the underdogs.

 

[bryce777]

I love how when you start the game, it's basically impossible to get enough bullets to be a gunslinger in the beginning, and impossible to get out of the town without having skillpoints in lockpick or pickpocket if you are a gunfighter. At least 20 times more annoying than the temple of trials. You have to make a pretty fucked character not to make it through there at it takes about 2 minutes to run through it. I got seriously stuck the first time I played because there was just NO way out for my character. Couldn't fight the brigands, couldn't do anything - i was just fucked.

You can side with the brigands. IIRC that works for every character except the horribly stupid ones. Do not accept the quest from the Sheriff. Instead talk with the brigands. They will ask you to blow up the construction site of the new bridge the villagers are trying to build. Every character can do that. Just use some dynamite.

I like throwing weapons the best simply

They ARE the best weapons. In almost all other RPGs they suck but in Arcanum they are superiour to anything else. I have won the game with a half-elven version of Xena - those chakrams (and of course the infamous decapitator) are even more unbalanced than the well-balanced sword. Around mid-game my character killed all enemies before they even had a chance to do anything and I mean the entire mob in a single round. Killing five critters per round was not unusual.

My advice to KC is to stay away from tech - it may look cool but it is very weak and frustrating. Also remember that your character does not have to fight in Arcanum. Your henchmen can do that. I once played a diplomat English gentleman type character who did not even carry a weapon. He had a little army of NPCs who quickly disposed all annoying people though.

You should definetly not give up on Arcanum that fast. It is the best CRPG ever made IMO. Yes the combat is boring and unbalanced but there is not THAT much combat and you can finish the combat sequences quickly once you know how to make a strong character.

Well, I had already agreed to clear them out. I tried about 20 times to kill the brigands but it was simply impossible for me with just virgil along.

The tech is the most fun part, just don't go beyond level 5 gunsmith, level 2 electirical, level 2 explosives or else you are wasting your time.

 

[kohla]

What! There is an alternate "Dogmeat" ? Yikes. I better leave this thread. I hate spoilers.

 

[bryce777]

Couldn't fight the brigands, couldn't do anything - i was just fucked.

Now to be fair, you fucked up.

There are several peaceful options to get past the gate. (I am assuming you talk about the brigands who guard the gate in Shrouded Hills.) Some specific ones I rememer is to tell lie and claim you are part of he thieves underground, do a quest for the brigands, fuck up some property and frame them, or as you mentioned: pickpocet the leader.

Now this is something I love this game for:

If your character is so uptight you decide not to tell a lie, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you if you mess up their quest, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you miss out on the opportunities the game offers, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you have low picpocket-skill or the leader succede in his saving-throw, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you are a fighter with some wit, you can recruit an half-ogre in the tavern to help out. If your joint figthing abillity ain't enough to beat the crap of those brigands, you either are out of luck, or you suck at games, and shouldn't be playing them in the first place. In any case, tough shit, face the consequences.

If you are a dumb fighter and don't get the dialogue options, tough shit, face the consequences, and as a bounus you fucked up the rest of the game aswell as you are missing out on the things the game do good.

Stupid players, who make stupid decisions get punished, as it should be!


Edit: Ok, i suck at writing long, witty replies. It has been a lot of action since i started writing. This was intended somewhere on the first side.

Tough shit, because there is a ridiculous quest that I have no possible solution for without reloading?

How about go fuck yourself? What kind of dumbfuck are you?

I had agreed to clear out the brigands, and had no chance to do otherwise. I had an ok charisma, but for some reason you need about a 10 to pick up sogg. I had zilch as far as money goes. I had no pickpocket or lockpick skills and if you say I should have to have those skills to beat the game then you are an absolute dumbfuck. There was also no option available involving the thieves' guild. That may have required more intelligence than I had, but again I was not minmaxing, so it is not like I had some bizarre character build.

None of these options were open to me, and each of those ogres is level 12. They also both would always run directly at my halfling character and bash him to pulp pretty much instantly.

That combat is about 15x more difficult than any other combat in the game, because of where you are powerwise when you get there.

The only way I could get around it was to restart the game and give myself a point of pickpocket.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

The only way I could get around it was to restart the game and give myself a point of pickpocket.

You mean the only way you could get around it was to restart and not fuck up.

 

[Chefe]

Quite personally, I thought in my own humblest of opinions that the combat in both Arcanum and the most revered Fallout was both interesting and with many flaws. Though I find myself and my part dying slightly less in Fallout, I will neither praise nor condem either game on this merit. Both games cannot manage a decent part if their digital life depended on it. Dropping weapons, critically hitting each other, critically hitting my personal avatar, constantly missing the enemy, using up all potions after a single hit... these things are all too common.

Therefore, my only option is to create VAN DAMMAGE, the one-man army powerhouse that doesn't need no stinkin' party. However, due to the problems that are inherent even if you have no party, VAN DAMMAGE must have multiple saves and defeat his foes... one... at... a... time.

 

[Oyarsa]

You should download the manual. You can get it off of the underdogs.

Good luck with that. Have you been there recently?

 

[bryce777]

You should download the manual. You can get it off of the underdogs.

Good luck with that. Have you been there recently?

Don't tell me they closed it down...! I was just there like a week ago

 

[Thydron]

try www.replacementdocs.com for game manuals - really useful site

 

[kingcomrade]

Tough shit, because there is a ridiculous quest that I have no possible solution for without reloading?

I just paid them. You can pay them the toll and they give you the key.

I downloaded the manual off Terra Arcanum (I did notice DU was the one who uploaded it) while I was downloading the torrent, read a bunch of it but not all, I didn't know they had the acronyms in there.

 

[Crazy_Vasey]

Get the dog!
A bit of a spoiler, but the first thing i allways do after leaving Shrouded Hills is straight to Ashbury to get the dog. As it levels it makes combat a no-issue, you can basically play combat in real-time. I was so fortunate i found it alive in my first time through.

The dog beat the last boss for my brother. He thought he was screwed when he ran out of fatigue and got knocked on his ass but the dog owned that bastard. It was rather funny.

 

[bryce777]

Tough shit, because there is a ridiculous quest that I have no possible solution for without reloading?

I just paid them. You can pay them the toll and they give you the key.

I downloaded the manual off Terra Arcanum (I did notice DU was the one who uploaded it) while I was downloading the torrent, read a bunch of it but not all, I didn't know they had the acronyms in there.

That was also impossible for me with that character. By the time I got there I had about 400 gold due to having to buy bullets all the time.

 

[Crichton]

That was also impossible for me with that character. By the time I got there I had about 400 gold due to having to buy bullets all the time.

If you make a proper techno-gunslinger (i.e. raised by monks, 2 pts firearms, 1 pt explosives, 1 pt gunsmithing, 1 pt pharmacology or somesuch, the healing item) you can make bullets from the junk you find at the crash site and at the cave, make your first gun (custom flintlock) from the junk you find at the cave and unless you take a whole lot of really crazy shots basically never have any ammo trouble. Yes bullet components cost money, but it's not that bad, you should make enough money in shrouded hills to buy leather armor + as much ammo as you need Just making the healing items nets you all the cash you'll ever need and the supply of those two plants is infinite (i.e. you can buy them).

You should get enough experience to raise your gunsmithing 1 point (to learn the fine revolver, you'll be using it for a while), raise your firearms 1 pt (3 is as high as you can go with a PER of 9) and raise your dex a few points. You should then be able to solo the bandits if things go your way, you should certainly be able to it with virgil, I've done it at least three times.

The game is hard on gunslingers, but the combat is so easy that it's basically a non-issue, non-combat characters can survive just fine with 1 NPC and the dog and every character can have 1 NPC + the dog, no matter how low their CHA.

 

[bryce777]

That was also impossible for me with that character. By the time I got there I had about 400 gold due to having to buy bullets all the time.

If you make a proper techno-gunslinger (i.e. raised by monks, 2 pts firearms, 1 pt explosives, 1 pt gunsmithing, 1 pt pharmacology or somesuch, the healing item) you can make bullets from the junk you find at the crash site and at the cave, make your first gun (custom flintlock) from the junk you find at the cave and unless you take a whole lot of really crazy shots basically never have any ammo trouble. Yes bullet components cost money, but it's not that bad, you should make enough money in shrouded hills to buy leather armor + as much ammo as you need Just making the healing items nets you all the cash you'll ever need and the supply of those two plants is infinite (i.e. you can buy them).

You should get enough experience to raise your gunsmithing 1 point (to learn the fine revolver, you'll be using it for a while), raise your firearms 1 pt (3 is as high as you can go with a PER of 9) and raise your dex a few points. You should then be able to solo the bandits if things go your way, you should certainly be able to it with virgil, I've done it at least three times.

The game is hard on gunslingers, but the combat is so easy that it's basically a non-issue, non-combat characters can survive just fine with 1 NPC and the dog and every character can have 1 NPC + the dog, no matter how low their CHA.

Well, I had zero trouble at all, except as I said at that spot. Obviously, knowing beforehand I would come across that problem it is not a big deal now when I restart the game. However, it truly sucked to start my first game and get into that no win situation. I even tried wandering around and getting random encounters so I could level up again and get a point to put into lockpick, but the area is too small and you never get any. Also, you need two points in explosives to make bullets, and if you have no haggle (like me the first time through) then the bullets formula will cost about 650 gold, which is what I think mostly ate up my money.

 

[Rat Keeng]

Bryce is absolutely right, there's a fair few character builds, that are damn near impossible to get past those thieves, I had the same problem on one occasion. Not my first, I was planning my character long-term and spending points to reach high levels in a couple of tech disciplines, and completely forgot about having to pass that damn bridge. Luckily my previous save was before spending all my char points, but still, it's a pretty annoying game stopper.

By the way, you need 9 charisma to recruit Sogg Mead Mug, a sound investment if you're a non-melee character.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Focus on melee (which you can get up almost full in character generation with the right backgrounds and what-not) then just use real-time combat.

Yeah, combat sucks though. The rest however, is great. it's just a pity you encounter so many GIANT COMBAT ONLY dungeons so early on.

 

[kingcomrade]

I've been looking at that Terra Arcanum site:

African Bum Bandit (Created By Genocide)

* Requirements : Human
* Description : Bum bandit.. tough job you are a sick bastard all hate you, and your pretty much useless, except for arse raping. giving you a -7 str -7 dex -7 int -7 will - 7 beu -7 char -7 con

 

[Jason]

Too bad the game doesn't have any arse raping opportunities.

I played the game originally as a tech-oriented gunslinger and I don't remember it being a problem at all. Melee is easier, but mostly because of the multiple hits per round thing.

 

[Trash]

Arcanum was a great rpg. It was however a sub-par game. The horrible combat, the boring visuals and those dungeons. God, they were long, boring and felt utterly without any meaningfull content. I almost gave up with the game after the first huge dungeon in the mountains. Glad I didn't though, the ending was great.

 

[bryce777]

Too bad the game doesn't have any arse raping opportunities.

I played the game originally as a tech-oriented gunslinger and I don't remember it being a problem at all. Melee is easier, but mostly because of the multiple hits per round thing.

Actually I think firearms and throwing are the best, because you can obliterate any and everything before it comes into range.

It's something to see soggy with 28 strength and 20+ dex running across the entire screen and cutting several wyverns in half, though.

 

[Lomer]

Well, I had already agreed to clear them out. I tried about 20 times to kill the brigands but it was simply impossible for me with just virgil along.

It is not that hard for a gunslinger to dispose of the brigands. Just buy a potion of haste from the old gipsy near the bandits' camp (your technical attitude is still low enough at that time and the potion should work) and use the revolver received from Doc Roberts as a reward for the bank protection quest. It does help if Virgil has some nice weapon (like the inferno hammer) to assist you in the battle.