Iskramor
Dumbfuck!
-
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KickStarter Arakion, first person, group based RPG
- Thread starter Luzur
- Start date
Released in early access.
Never heard of this before today ... must admit I'm immediately interested in an RPG where the character portraits change when the guy is sick or tired. It only took 18 years for devs to start doing this again.
Never heard of this before today ... must admit I'm immediately interested in an RPG where the character portraits change when the guy is sick or tired. It only took 18 years for devs to start doing this again.
Sinatar
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 569
Store Description said:
What the fuck. Why?
2 scenarios, you tell me what's more satisfying:
1. You delve deep into the dark dungeon of death and at the bottom face a mighty dragon and by the skin of your teeth slay the fearsome beast. Amongst his treasure horde you find the legendary sword SlashyMcSlash wielded by the knight Sir Doofus who failed to slay the beast himself.
2. You delve deep into the dark dungeon of death and at the bottom face a mighty dragon and by the skin of your teeth slay the fearsome beast. You peel one of the dragons ingrown toenails off of it's corpse, scoop some snot out of it's nose and grab some ear hair. Now if you're lucky enough to be carrying 6 diamonds, 4 vials of troll taint sweat, 6 pieces of cured donkey leather and a vial of swamp gunk you can craft a dragon sword.
Fuck crafting.
V_K
Arcane
Still going to be better than BT4.
V_K
Arcane
I have zero doubts about BT4. inXile's previous games were shit and the original BT games were shit, so how can it turn out anything other than?
This, at least, looks original.
This, at least, looks original.
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- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 12,803
impression so far, looks nice, but in the beginning its all simplistic plate puzzles
it does suffer from trying to stuff environments into a grid that would have felt more natural in a free-range game
another flaw, most blobbers make it so that if you stand in a field, you see the stuff lying in the that square in front of you, here you actually have to look down and it's easy to overlook staff that is basically lying in the square you're standing in
combat is the usual Grimrock squaredance, if they actually manage to implement TB combat, it would be a massive improvement
Oh yeah, and lots of chopping down trees to get materials to build bridges
it does suffer from trying to stuff environments into a grid that would have felt more natural in a free-range game
another flaw, most blobbers make it so that if you stand in a field, you see the stuff lying in the that square in front of you, here you actually have to look down and it's easy to overlook staff that is basically lying in the square you're standing in
combat is the usual Grimrock squaredance, if they actually manage to implement TB combat, it would be a massive improvement
Oh yeah, and lots of chopping down trees to get materials to build bridges
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V_K
Arcane
Following in the steps of MM games, apparently.
Ugh, I've seen this in other grid-based games too and it is awful. My interest just plummeted.
Nyast
Cipher
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 609
That actually isn't a major issue. Because there's a much more important issue: there's almost never anything to find on these squares. Except a few plants / mushrooms. All the important gear is crafted and I haven't seen any quest items on the ground so far.
One thing that is quite annoying is the "camera"' system ( as in: there's an actually camera item you have to find and carry with you in game ). You have to observe some elements of the scenery to give you ideas for crafting recipes. These elements need to be seen from a certain viewpoint angle ( standing in the square just in front of it isn't enough ) and it seems a bit glitchy at the moment. So you often have to move the view around randomly for many seconds until it gets aligned to the element you want to study. But I think that is quite easily fixable so I wouldn't hold it against the game.
One thing that is quite annoying is the "camera"' system ( as in: there's an actually camera item you have to find and carry with you in game ). You have to observe some elements of the scenery to give you ideas for crafting recipes. These elements need to be seen from a certain viewpoint angle ( standing in the square just in front of it isn't enough ) and it seems a bit glitchy at the moment. So you often have to move the view around randomly for many seconds until it gets aligned to the element you want to study. But I think that is quite easily fixable so I wouldn't hold it against the game.
Sounds like a very cool idea ... hope it is fixed to be actually fun.
Nyast
Cipher
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 609
The game tries a lot of interesting and refreshing things.. but the resutls aren't exactly there.
Take the character creation for example. You can customize the appearance of your characters; There's a dozen or more sliders for facial expressions, body parts, hair types etc... It is actually very impressive for an indy game.
Except, what's the point ? There are no cinematics and you'll never have a chance to see your characters up close. Such a waste of implementation time.
Take the character creation for example. You can customize the appearance of your characters; There's a dozen or more sliders for facial expressions, body parts, hair types etc... It is actually very impressive for an indy game.
Except, what's the point ? There are no cinematics and you'll never have a chance to see your characters up close. Such a waste of implementation time.
Speaking for myself I'm excited about this
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 12,803
yeah, I wouldn't dismiss the game at this point, its early access so a lot of the stuff can be fixed and it does try new things for a blobber, so even if it doesn't end up completely successful, at least it tries some new things
also, what Nyast said is quite true, with so few things worthwhile to find, the not being able to see stuff in front of you isn't a major issue, but I find it somewhat irksome
also, what Nyast said is quite true, with so few things worthwhile to find, the not being able to see stuff in front of you isn't a major issue, but I find it somewhat irksome
Nyast
Cipher
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 609
The dungeons so far are the best part of the game for me. They're varied and quite short. Cool puzzles in them too.
The big negative so far for me is the overworld exterior map. All these floating islands, each is maze-like, no logical layout, connected by floating bridges or random teleporters. It makes no sense as a world and I simply don't find it interesting to explore.
The big negative so far for me is the overworld exterior map. All these floating islands, each is maze-like, no logical layout, connected by floating bridges or random teleporters. It makes no sense as a world and I simply don't find it interesting to explore.
Nyast
Cipher
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 609
I'm currently stuck due to a game bug and waiting for the next patch so I'll take some time to write a quick review.
The game is slowly growing on me. There are lots of things to like, but also lots of things to dislike. The early game ( ~first 5 hours ) is pretty average, some people would probably qualify it as bad. The open world is made of a bunch of floating islands connected by bridges ( you can craft them by chopping down trees ) and random teleporters. Each island is a little maze and they all look similar. This gives a very disjointed and incoherent feeling to the game world. Visually it's a mixed bag, with some assets looking almost untextured or cartoony, while others are more realistic. Lighting and dynamic day/night cycles and weather are pretty good.
Crafting is done by finding "ideas" for items in the scenery via an in-game camera. It is a refreshing concept in the genre, however instead of adding that system on top of classic hand-crafted loot and treasures, the crafting system completely replaces it. That's right; the old formula "explore-monster-treasure" replaces the treasure part with crafting "ideas". That's pretty unexciting and underwhelming if you ask me. Imagine spending 30 minutes in a deep dungeon, and your reward is just a crafting recipe which you can't even immediately use until you back-track to the camp. Meh.
Speaking of another refreshing concept to the genre: base building. The game allows you to set up a camp in a specific area ( I suspect later on in the game there will be more areas like that ) and to build various improvements once you progress. Walls, ceiling, forge, even a cellar dungeon, alchemist etc.. It is pretty cool and essentially acts as the center hub for the open world.
Even though I did not particularly like the open world due to its disjointed nature, I really enjoy the dungeons. So far they've been short and to the point with a nice mix of exploration, combat and puzzles. There can be various mechanisms and traps, fireball launchers, pitholes, and the environment can be used against monsters during combat. The dungeons look a lot better than the exterior world due to the nice lighting and shadowing effects and physical based lighting. I haven't encountered complex, multi-level dungeons yet; they're all linear and sometimes simplistic ( a key opening a locked door.. two tiles away.. ? what was the point ? ) but they're also quite varied and combat in a restricrited layout is more interesting than in the open world.
Speaking of combat, it is pretty average. The death mechanics are a bit special ( you lose shards, which basically act as experience points, when you die ) and there's no quick reload; the monsters hit hard and in the first hours of the game, there's no way to heal your characters that I could find ( besides resting at the camp ) which forces a lot of back-tracking in the middle of an area/dungeon to replenish your characters. As a result, direct fight is a bad idea, so I've been forced to abuse two-steps dancing. If you didn't like it in Grimrock, you'll absolutely hate it here. In addition, the combats are "unfair" in the sense that monsters can hit you diagonally but yourself you can't do that to them. I believe the developer did that to mitigate 2-steps dancing, but the result is a failure. I much prefer the Vaporum approach with monsters having ranged attacks and restricting movements dynamically ( monsters area damage over 3x3, acid or lightning range attacks on the hit tile etc.. ). Here in Arakion, the trash mobs are simply a waste of time. They offer no particular challenge ( beside one or two "boss" fights over smaller islands where your movements are more restricted, or in dungeons due to the level layout ). I have hopes that the combat improves later on in the game though.
Finally, a quick mention of the RPG systems; I mentionned the character creation earlier, which is pretty complete. Levelling up is done by getting "shards" when killing monsters or collecting them while exploring the game. Once you have enough, you can spend a point in the skills tree. Unfortunately the skills tree is pretty generic; it appears complex at first with a tree-like structure but it really is an endless list of "+2 health", "+5% health", "+1 weight stones" and even then a lot of them are duplicates.
I haven't progressed enough on the story to give much feedback about it. The entire first chapter feels like a giant tutorial where you're gradually unlocking more abilities and sub-systems of the game. There are NPCs to talk to with a "lightweight" conversation system. Some NPCs allow you to buy items or potions. NPCs can temporarily "join" your party but they're represented as an icon and just give you a stat bonus. I've seen mentions of pets but I haven't unlocked any of these yet.
So, in summary, I'm enjoying a lot the dungeons and puzzles part of the game and I welcome the refreshing systems like crafting or base building. The main problem I have with the game right now is that the core experience does not seem solid. Usually a game would make its core a solid experience and build more systems around it. But here I'm finding combat, open-world exploration and loot to be disapointing. If I had to give an advice to the developer, it would be this:
1. Revamp combat to get ride of two-steps dancing, maybe by rebalancing the game. Slow trash mobs that you can't battle 1-on-1 directly are no fun. Play Vaporum, seriously. Make the mobs have more interesting/varied tactics to offer a decent challenge. The only combats I really enjoyed so far were the boss fight on that small floating island, where he had a 3x3 stomp attack ( but he had a lot of HP, so once you got the pattern, it was a chore to finish him off ) and some skeleton/mummy fights inside the dungeons, where movement was restricted but you could use the environment against them. The fact that you stay with an axe and a sword for the 5 first hours does not help to bring a variety of tactics. Maybe combat in later parts of the game, where you unlock gear and abilities is better, but I can safely say that after ~8 hours I haven't seen it..
2. Redesign the open-world to be more coherent and less "maze-like" - it makes the first hour of the game feel like it's just an elaborate puzzle game in 3D ( which is wrong, as your game actually has more depth and interesting elements than your typical blobber ). A forest island, a mountain-like island with rocks, etc.. make islands more thematic. Add a couple of early dungeons to show to the beginner the best your game has to offer, with a few cool puzzles. People are expecting a dungeon-crawl experience; give them a taste of that earlier. Add more secrets and optionnal areas, too. Everybody loves these.
3. Add back some fixed loot to the game; don't rely only on crafting only. You have an interesting crafting system, but its downside is that it makes the early part of the game ( when you don't have access to crafting yet ) a chore; and it removes excitement from exploring and completing dungeons. A good mix of crafing items and classic loot would be wonderful ! Nobody wants to find a recipe for an ice spear at the end of a dungeon. They want the instant +3 magical ice spear itself. Crafting should be the cherry on the cake, not the cake itself..
The game is slowly growing on me. There are lots of things to like, but also lots of things to dislike. The early game ( ~first 5 hours ) is pretty average, some people would probably qualify it as bad. The open world is made of a bunch of floating islands connected by bridges ( you can craft them by chopping down trees ) and random teleporters. Each island is a little maze and they all look similar. This gives a very disjointed and incoherent feeling to the game world. Visually it's a mixed bag, with some assets looking almost untextured or cartoony, while others are more realistic. Lighting and dynamic day/night cycles and weather are pretty good.
Crafting is done by finding "ideas" for items in the scenery via an in-game camera. It is a refreshing concept in the genre, however instead of adding that system on top of classic hand-crafted loot and treasures, the crafting system completely replaces it. That's right; the old formula "explore-monster-treasure" replaces the treasure part with crafting "ideas". That's pretty unexciting and underwhelming if you ask me. Imagine spending 30 minutes in a deep dungeon, and your reward is just a crafting recipe which you can't even immediately use until you back-track to the camp. Meh.
Speaking of another refreshing concept to the genre: base building. The game allows you to set up a camp in a specific area ( I suspect later on in the game there will be more areas like that ) and to build various improvements once you progress. Walls, ceiling, forge, even a cellar dungeon, alchemist etc.. It is pretty cool and essentially acts as the center hub for the open world.
Even though I did not particularly like the open world due to its disjointed nature, I really enjoy the dungeons. So far they've been short and to the point with a nice mix of exploration, combat and puzzles. There can be various mechanisms and traps, fireball launchers, pitholes, and the environment can be used against monsters during combat. The dungeons look a lot better than the exterior world due to the nice lighting and shadowing effects and physical based lighting. I haven't encountered complex, multi-level dungeons yet; they're all linear and sometimes simplistic ( a key opening a locked door.. two tiles away.. ? what was the point ? ) but they're also quite varied and combat in a restricrited layout is more interesting than in the open world.
Speaking of combat, it is pretty average. The death mechanics are a bit special ( you lose shards, which basically act as experience points, when you die ) and there's no quick reload; the monsters hit hard and in the first hours of the game, there's no way to heal your characters that I could find ( besides resting at the camp ) which forces a lot of back-tracking in the middle of an area/dungeon to replenish your characters. As a result, direct fight is a bad idea, so I've been forced to abuse two-steps dancing. If you didn't like it in Grimrock, you'll absolutely hate it here. In addition, the combats are "unfair" in the sense that monsters can hit you diagonally but yourself you can't do that to them. I believe the developer did that to mitigate 2-steps dancing, but the result is a failure. I much prefer the Vaporum approach with monsters having ranged attacks and restricting movements dynamically ( monsters area damage over 3x3, acid or lightning range attacks on the hit tile etc.. ). Here in Arakion, the trash mobs are simply a waste of time. They offer no particular challenge ( beside one or two "boss" fights over smaller islands where your movements are more restricted, or in dungeons due to the level layout ). I have hopes that the combat improves later on in the game though.
Finally, a quick mention of the RPG systems; I mentionned the character creation earlier, which is pretty complete. Levelling up is done by getting "shards" when killing monsters or collecting them while exploring the game. Once you have enough, you can spend a point in the skills tree. Unfortunately the skills tree is pretty generic; it appears complex at first with a tree-like structure but it really is an endless list of "+2 health", "+5% health", "+1 weight stones" and even then a lot of them are duplicates.
I haven't progressed enough on the story to give much feedback about it. The entire first chapter feels like a giant tutorial where you're gradually unlocking more abilities and sub-systems of the game. There are NPCs to talk to with a "lightweight" conversation system. Some NPCs allow you to buy items or potions. NPCs can temporarily "join" your party but they're represented as an icon and just give you a stat bonus. I've seen mentions of pets but I haven't unlocked any of these yet.
So, in summary, I'm enjoying a lot the dungeons and puzzles part of the game and I welcome the refreshing systems like crafting or base building. The main problem I have with the game right now is that the core experience does not seem solid. Usually a game would make its core a solid experience and build more systems around it. But here I'm finding combat, open-world exploration and loot to be disapointing. If I had to give an advice to the developer, it would be this:
1. Revamp combat to get ride of two-steps dancing, maybe by rebalancing the game. Slow trash mobs that you can't battle 1-on-1 directly are no fun. Play Vaporum, seriously. Make the mobs have more interesting/varied tactics to offer a decent challenge. The only combats I really enjoyed so far were the boss fight on that small floating island, where he had a 3x3 stomp attack ( but he had a lot of HP, so once you got the pattern, it was a chore to finish him off ) and some skeleton/mummy fights inside the dungeons, where movement was restricted but you could use the environment against them. The fact that you stay with an axe and a sword for the 5 first hours does not help to bring a variety of tactics. Maybe combat in later parts of the game, where you unlock gear and abilities is better, but I can safely say that after ~8 hours I haven't seen it..
2. Redesign the open-world to be more coherent and less "maze-like" - it makes the first hour of the game feel like it's just an elaborate puzzle game in 3D ( which is wrong, as your game actually has more depth and interesting elements than your typical blobber ). A forest island, a mountain-like island with rocks, etc.. make islands more thematic. Add a couple of early dungeons to show to the beginner the best your game has to offer, with a few cool puzzles. People are expecting a dungeon-crawl experience; give them a taste of that earlier. Add more secrets and optionnal areas, too. Everybody loves these.
3. Add back some fixed loot to the game; don't rely only on crafting only. You have an interesting crafting system, but its downside is that it makes the early part of the game ( when you don't have access to crafting yet ) a chore; and it removes excitement from exploring and completing dungeons. A good mix of crafing items and classic loot would be wonderful ! Nobody wants to find a recipe for an ice spear at the end of a dungeon. They want the instant +3 magical ice spear itself. Crafting should be the cherry on the cake, not the cake itself..
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Nice writeup Nyast. I haven't played the game, but from your description, it sounds to me like the "ideas as loot" concept is really interesting. Instead of having traditional loot and crafting side by side (making both less interesting) I would concentrate instead on making the idea system better. When I can just find good equipment lying around I stop caring about crafting. Subnautica was another game in which information was the only reward and it was extremely effective there. I didn't want to find new swim fins in a wrecked escape pod, I wanted to discover a recipe to improve the ones I already had. I hope Lavidimus does not add in traditional loot.
Nyast
Cipher
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 609
I wouldn't mind if there was traditional loot *and* the best equipment could only be crafted. But the total lack of loot kills dungeons. They feel empty ( in terms of items ) besides the occasional potion, shards and craft reagents. Also, even if you discover crafting ideas in dungeons, they have various requirements so you might not be able to use them immediately even if you get back to the camp asap. I think it'll be a turn off for a lot of people.
One thing the game does very well is the feeling of "adventure". While most areas are quite linear, the open world and the fact that dungeons are spread in various zones, give a non-linear nature to the game. You are free to block on a puzzle then go in another dungeon to progress, then come back later once you're inspired. I found the difficulity in terms of exploration / puzzle to be pretty satisfying so far.
One thing the game does very well is the feeling of "adventure". While most areas are quite linear, the open world and the fact that dungeons are spread in various zones, give a non-linear nature to the game. You are free to block on a puzzle then go in another dungeon to progress, then come back later once you're inspired. I found the difficulity in terms of exploration / puzzle to be pretty satisfying so far.
V_K
Arcane
I really like the idea of getting rid of the loot threadmill. But there should be some other rewards for completing dungeons then. Maybe it could be something related to the base camp, that'd feel significant and still not be loot.
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