Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,035
I'm having some problems with vignettes. Presentation problems. So, I need some opinions, help, advice, random thoughts, whatever.
I liked ToEE vignettes. Although they were very short, it was clear that multiple starting points defining characters' backgrounds and motivation is a much better way than more traditional "here you are, here is the ball, run with it" stuff. Anyway, since the AoD world isn't a typical fantasy where you know that elves are good and orcs are bad, properly implemented vignettes can add quite a lot. The question is how to do them right, as there are many examples of good ideas ruined by poor implementation.
So, anyway, for some reasons that I don't remember now, I have chosen one simple story for the vignettes, played from different perspectives for extra flavor. An independent merchant, seeking trading favors from one of the noble houses controlling a small town, arrives into that town, bringing a gift, an ancient map, to the lord of the town. The Merchants Guild quickly orders the assassination, and the merchant is attacked before he has a chance to meet with the lord and present his gift and his case.
Now, the player picks one of the profession when he/she starts the game, which defines his/her position within the gameworld (i.e. a thief starts as a member of the Thieves Guild, bonus to reputation with the thieves, assassins, and one Noble House using thieves to spy on other Houses, penalty with the guards, merchants, etc) and the role in the vignette mini-story. For example, the mercenary is hired to protect the merchant, the loremaster will be called to identify the map, the assassin... well, this one needs no explanation, etc. In the end, one way or another, PC aquires the map, and starts figuring out what to do with it. It makes more sense for a thief, for example, to steal it, among other things, and then try to find a buyer for it, etc.
Problems:
The vignettes, for obvious reasons, are very linear. While you have some degree of freedom where it fits (the mercenary can kill the assassin before or after he kills the merchant, or choose not to fight him at all, while the assassin must kill the merchant to acquire the map, etc), the freedom of movement is limited. For example, in the assassin vignette you start in the Assassins Guild, when the conversation with the guildmaster ends, you are automatically taken to the inn, and you can't leave the inn until you kill the merchant. In other words, you can't leave the vignette and just do whatever you want ( i.e. a thief can't leave town, can't say fuck off and leave the guild; an assassin can't betray the client and let the merchant live, etc). That may create an impression that the game doesn't have much freedom and role-playing, forcing people to do mandatory things, which is the opposite of what the actual gameplay is like.
Of course, I can remove any restrictions and allow exploring the world freely, but that would be an equivalent of leaving the vault without being told to find the waterchip. The waterchip doesn't restrict you, but adds a sense of purpose. Same here.
Anyway, I'm not sure how bad the current railroading setup is, you tell me.
Here are some alternatives:
1. We can always do good ol' "you found a dying merchant who gave you the scroll", etc. It's less interesting though.
2. Start everyone at the inn, courtesy of Section8:
3. Flashbacks, another Section8's idea:
Opinions?
Edit: Here are some vignette screenshots to show the info and the differences. Btw, Torque has some font drawing issues, which will deal with later.
Assassin:
Screen 1
Screen 2
Screen 3
Screen 4
Thief:
Screen 5
Screen 6
Screen 7
Loremaster:
Screen 8
Screen 9
"Knight":
Screen 10
Screen 11
Mercenary:
Screen 12
I got tired of sorting and uploading screens, but you've got the idea.
I liked ToEE vignettes. Although they were very short, it was clear that multiple starting points defining characters' backgrounds and motivation is a much better way than more traditional "here you are, here is the ball, run with it" stuff. Anyway, since the AoD world isn't a typical fantasy where you know that elves are good and orcs are bad, properly implemented vignettes can add quite a lot. The question is how to do them right, as there are many examples of good ideas ruined by poor implementation.
So, anyway, for some reasons that I don't remember now, I have chosen one simple story for the vignettes, played from different perspectives for extra flavor. An independent merchant, seeking trading favors from one of the noble houses controlling a small town, arrives into that town, bringing a gift, an ancient map, to the lord of the town. The Merchants Guild quickly orders the assassination, and the merchant is attacked before he has a chance to meet with the lord and present his gift and his case.
Now, the player picks one of the profession when he/she starts the game, which defines his/her position within the gameworld (i.e. a thief starts as a member of the Thieves Guild, bonus to reputation with the thieves, assassins, and one Noble House using thieves to spy on other Houses, penalty with the guards, merchants, etc) and the role in the vignette mini-story. For example, the mercenary is hired to protect the merchant, the loremaster will be called to identify the map, the assassin... well, this one needs no explanation, etc. In the end, one way or another, PC aquires the map, and starts figuring out what to do with it. It makes more sense for a thief, for example, to steal it, among other things, and then try to find a buyer for it, etc.
Problems:
The vignettes, for obvious reasons, are very linear. While you have some degree of freedom where it fits (the mercenary can kill the assassin before or after he kills the merchant, or choose not to fight him at all, while the assassin must kill the merchant to acquire the map, etc), the freedom of movement is limited. For example, in the assassin vignette you start in the Assassins Guild, when the conversation with the guildmaster ends, you are automatically taken to the inn, and you can't leave the inn until you kill the merchant. In other words, you can't leave the vignette and just do whatever you want ( i.e. a thief can't leave town, can't say fuck off and leave the guild; an assassin can't betray the client and let the merchant live, etc). That may create an impression that the game doesn't have much freedom and role-playing, forcing people to do mandatory things, which is the opposite of what the actual gameplay is like.
Of course, I can remove any restrictions and allow exploring the world freely, but that would be an equivalent of leaving the vault without being told to find the waterchip. The waterchip doesn't restrict you, but adds a sense of purpose. Same here.
Anyway, I'm not sure how bad the current railroading setup is, you tell me.
Here are some alternatives:
1. We can always do good ol' "you found a dying merchant who gave you the scroll", etc. It's less interesting though.
2. Start everyone at the inn, courtesy of Section8:
As for restriction of free will, I think the solution is to put the player into a situation where they *must* act, for better or for worse. Start everyone at at the inn, just as things are unfolding, give them the story so far ("I've been hired to protect this guy...yada yada") and provide "insurance" if you have to. If the merc tries to walk out, have another of the inns guards stop him, with force if necessary. The sneaky types could be doing a probationary task, trial contracts, complete with observers. Basically use whatever means necessary to justify the character's inability to directly express their free will in plausible role-play context.
3. Flashbacks, another Section8's idea:
I liked the flashback idea, but while it handles the railroading problem, it takes away most of the remaining freedom, in my opinion. It works well for certain vignettes where you may acquire the map quickly, but doesn't work well when the map is given at the end (too much to flashback) and where there are several ways to get it."Your heart races as you stand over the corpse of Gracius, the merchant. You try to focus, and calm yourself as you watch runnels of flowing blood tentatively feeling their way along the cracks of the floorboards. It's hard to keep your mind in one place, as you experience the headrush of your first sanctioned kill. It seems a long time past now, but your memory wanders back to a moment earlier in the day..."
<flashback to conversation with guildmaster>
"With your blood still up, you give the corpse a quick once over. Partly to make sure he's actually dead, and partly to see if he has anything worth nicking before the thieves come to pick over his worldly belongings. The only thing that qualifies as interesting is a map. Most likely junk, you pocket it with hopes of palming it off to someone naive enough to believe in buried treasures. You're just about to break for freedom when you hear something behind you..."
<game on, the merc just entered the room>
If you can cement the essential outcome (getting the map), then you can have other events that allow a degree of choice, and the player can't fucking whine about being railroaded into going straight to the tavern from the guild, because it's a flashback. <grins>
Opinions?
Edit: Here are some vignette screenshots to show the info and the differences. Btw, Torque has some font drawing issues, which will deal with later.
Assassin:
Screen 1
Screen 2
Screen 3
Screen 4
Thief:
Screen 5
Screen 6
Screen 7
Loremaster:
Screen 8
Screen 9
"Knight":
Screen 10
Screen 11
Mercenary:
Screen 12
I got tired of sorting and uploading screens, but you've got the idea.