AoD - first 3D screen

[Vault Dweller]

Well, without any kind of visible interface, expect comments solely on the graphics.

We are using the old interface (see prev screens), didn't have time to hook it up yet.

One thing I really suggest you do is turn on shadowing. Torque's got shadow functionality built in--check the samples--and that should be sufficient. Right now, though, it looks like the tents are just hovering over the grass. In fact, I thought the middle tent had some sort of Z-buffering problem before my eyes figured out the proper depths. The shadows don't have to be anything particularly elaborate, but they provide a good location cue.

Thanks for the advice

 

[Psilon]

I'd suggest using the baked lightmaps as well, but that won't help in this case. Only the converted Quake MAP files (DIFs, right?) get picked up by the baking phase, and it looks like you did the tents and barrels as DTS objects.

 

[Shevek]

The character models are ok (they stand/sit correctly, have fingers, well proportioned, etc - the skirts are a bit too tight though) but they need to be textured better. Also, normal/bump maps made from higher poly models would improve the graphics quality tremendously. The same could be said for the treasure chests/barrels/etc.

The foliage doesnt look quite right but it might look better if you panned back a bit - so, I dunno. The ground texture is too uniform (you need dirt patches, shoots of grass, rocks,...) and seems too level.

The tents need tent spikes/ropes/etc to look more affixed to the ground and they need better detail to them (rips/patches/stuff inside/dirtiness).

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Looks pretty good, and definitely has a unique flair to it. Of course, I wouldn't care if the graphics were done in fucking MSpaint as long as it's an RPG, so take my opinon any way you please.

Good luck to you, VD!

 

[Vault Dweller]

More shots, different zoom and camera
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camp29sk.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camp31ua.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camp49oo.jpg

 

[Surlent]

Those screens look cool.

Like Psilon said, more shadows could give nice touch to them. Will the game be playable on different resolutions ?

 

[Psilon]

Nice, but the third shot really highlights the need for more contrasting detail on the textures. It's hard to tell where the gold/silver helmets end and the armor begins.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nice, but the third shot really highlights the need for more contrasting detail on the textures. It's hard to tell where the gold/silver helmets end and the armor begins.

That goes without saying.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

Looks good, I think I see promise in it. Though, a more detailed/polished version would make it easier to judge it fairly and acurately (especially if it decides whether to stay 3D or go back to 2D).

 

[Sarkile]

I was one of the people who liked the 2D graphics. But I can see potential with this if you continue polishing it.

 

[Sandelfron]

I'd suggest using the baked lightmaps as well, but that won't help in this case. Only the converted Quake MAP files (DIFs, right?) get picked up by the baking phase, and it looks like you did the tents and barrels as DTS objects.

I haven't heard that phrase before - is baking used to mean environment mapping?

 

[Human Shield]

It shows promise. I'd like to see the polished versions in the future, needs more style. The zoomed out view is the way to go, don't have to bother with 1000 face details.

Is the camera going to be locked or can it be rotated?

Be sure to make a sci-fi sequel when you are done.

 

[Psilon]

I'd suggest using the baked lightmaps as well, but that won't help in this case. Only the converted Quake MAP files (DIFs, right?) get picked up by the baking phase, and it looks like you did the tents and barrels as DTS objects.

I haven't heard that phrase before - is baking used to mean environment mapping?

No, it enables game developers to load content from disk dynamically. <zing>

Baked lighting refers to the process of precomputing the lighting calculations, possibly using heavyweight-but-slow radiosity algorithms, and storing the results as a lightmap texture. Then you can provide really good shadows (or whatever) using a simple texture blend rather than computing this stuff on the fly.

The downside to lightmaps, of course, is their fixed nature. If something moves, you need to recompute everything to avoid having a huge shadow in the wrong spot.

Environment mapping usually refers to a special type of texture mapping. Rather than using preselected UV coordinates to grab texture data, transform the normals. When combined with a "reflection" texture, this allows for quick-and-dirty highly reflective surfaces. They don't self-reflect or show objects not in the texture, but for relatively convex objects (spheroids, cubes, and the like) it can work pretty well. If you remember the "shiny chrome" demos predating shaders, you've seen environment mapping.

 

[Crichton]

I also don't mind the cartoony feel to the thing and I think the vast majority of it is well within my tolerance, but the bright yellow on the one fellow's armor is just terrible. If you want Goldenrod there to be wearing yellow-metal armor then at least burnish it a little. The rest of the screen says pseudo-roman, that guys screams TRANSFORMERS. But don't strain yourself, if they still made games like Darksun: Shattered Lands, I'd play them, graphics aren't such a big deal to me.

 

[Ivy Mike]

It looks good. With some polish I it would look great.

I agree with the comments about shadows. Without them there is no "depth" to the graphics, something that's almost essential with a 3D game. Also, the ligthning looks too uniform. The result is that the graphics look somewhat stale. The textures needs to be worked on so that they don't look as flat as they do now. Perhaps your graphics artist could accentuate the edges of the different body parts somewhat. The foliage kind off makes the perspective seem strange - it looks too big compared to the characters. I realize that it's because of the camera but perhaps scaling it down a bit wouldn't make the characters seem so small. Take a look at the trees in Silent Storm, they are alot smaller than they would be in reality but the perspective of the game demands it.

While I would prefer AoD with 2D graphics, I can see potential in what your team has done so far. Considering that you recently switched engines I'm impressed with your work.

 

[Roqua]

I think it looks great as is. No need for polish or any more time wasted catering to the graphic whores. Its crunch time, lets get this bitch out to the paying customers. Code needs to be finalized, contracts negotiated, bugs squashed, and whatever else needs to be done to get this game in my hands asap. Graphics smaphics, plenty of games being released with that shit.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hey, VD keep up the good work man.

 

[Sandelfron]

No, it enables game developers to load content from disk dynamically. <zing>

Oh ..that.. conversation. I'd completely forgotten about that.

Baked lighting refers to the process of precomputing the lighting calculations, possibly using heavyweight-but-slow radiosity algorithms, and storing the results as a lightmap texture. Then you can provide really good shadows (or whatever) using a simple texture blend rather than computing this stuff on the fly.

Ah, in other words precomputed light-mapping with radiosity. I've been working
on a small game engine myself, but I've filed 'pixel and vertex shaders' under
'cool' but easy to waste too much time on atm. It does BSP-based collision
detection, level loading, animation. I'm currently implementing pathfinding and AI.

Anyway, back to VD's progress.

 

[Ismaul]

I agree with most here. Just like the 2D version, the 3D one needs a system of lightning/shadows to create atmosphere.

I understand why some prefer the 2D graphics. They had the advantage of being crisp, unlike those from the 3D prototype. The culprit there is texture. Especially on the metallic armor parts. That yellow guy just screams "I'm out of place". IMO, the best elements of the screens are the grass and the lightly armored guy's skirt.

Vegetation is a bit weird. It seems to be disconnected from the ground and screws the perspective. The color differences between the grass and the ferns might have something to do with this, making them seem nearer because they are brighter. But what will help a lot to eliminate the perceived discontinuity is to give us information on where the different elements stand in relation to the background: shadows is what you're looking for.

That's pretty much it. If done right, the graphs will look better than the 2D ones.
Good luck.

 

[Hazelnut]

Very good models, but you already had those, as everyone has already said - the textures are very plain. I think you will need to put a lot of work into texturing to stop it looking like a Lego RPG, which I doubt is the feel you're aiming for.

I have no idea how difficult realistic texturing is, but surely it's gonna be more work than a small team would want to take on?

Summary: stick with 2d unless you have the resources to get the 3d looking gritty & realistic rather than plastic.

HTH

H.

 

[mathboy]

Isn't the yellow guy an orc? If he isn't then I'd like to tell you he looks like one.

 

[Atrokkus]

Yeah, I too think that textures are the only real issue here.
Especailly, the character texturing.

 

[Kamaz]

I didnt fancy 2D too much, but those doesnt look much better. On the other hand, many games (arcades and console actions) nowadays have similar graphics, so, I guess its pretty fine then.

Cannot really say what has to be improved, but in overall - it lacks feeling, atmosphere. Perhaps shading would help that. Having seen Burgeoisie screens I am sure Torque can handle that.

Textures are not the best ones neither, I suggest adding more details, as suggested above.

Models - not sure, but they look really..simple. Looks like they are just some abstract figures, like in chess. Not real characters.

Enviroment. Pardone me, but fire looks really ugly. As well as "grass" and tents..well..really cartoonish, that, in this case, is very bad. If you wanted this game to be like the 2D version, but in 3D, you are failing. I can hardly see any similarities with previous screens. These screens have another design. Those plants do look good, however. I suggested maybe trying rocky desert and not-round-leaved grass, but something more edgy. You have too much round objects there.

Colors - you really should go for some color-style. More brown, more sand-color, more-red, that would add feeling and recognition to the game. IMO it looks too green here.

Final verdict: looks really cheap. Not that it would be bad or smth, its just that it makes you think game is not serious, its some arcade, platformer, some jRPG. Reminds me of Fate and its childish heroes and foes. If you wanted your game some more serious feeling (grim, like Fallouts or elegant like Arcanum's) then you should work on visuals pretty hard. Shading, textures, models, composition etc.. Now it looks really childish.

PS: if you are going to use the old interface, then...I dunno, but IMO this interface and those screens dont go along very well - style differences. For 2D it was fine, but here, the overall art-style is different. It screams for smth different. Maybe some tweaks in i-face color-palette or some elements would improve that but leaving it the same way imo is mistake.

 

[Claw]

It would be nice to see a screen emulating the isometric perspective of the 2D screens, and with the interface in place.

These models don't look very good close up, but from a perspective similar to the 2D screens they may look fine. The scene looks simple, crude.. but it's just a test, quickly thrown together, isn't it?
I don't know what standards to judge it by. There is a huge lack of detail, but if youd didn't even try to create an ingame scene, it'd be pointless to criticise that.

So you can do 3D in principle. Now I'd like to see a screen actually showing how you want the game to look, with the perspective and level of detail you aim for and everything. Then I could say whether or not I like it.

On a positive note, I think it looks better than Simon The Sorcerer 3D already. :D

 

[Kamaz]

Simon The Sorcerer3D was (is) jewel! And its graphics - perfect. Skybox itself was so fucking stylish...