Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio
-
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AoD dex' reviews
- Thread starter Perkel
- Start date
Johannes
Arcane
But how much of the setting is actually Roman? It's mostly aesthetics. If you'd just change the weapons, armor, and names, the game wouldn't be much different at all gameplay- and storywise, but it'd feel different.
laclongquan
Arcane
bola and net for gladiators? They are not normal weapon for troopers because they are hunting weapons from sea coast pirates and interior hunters. Their fame come from gladiator fights.
Brothels, Crucifixions and Political intrigue done by Familias lording over city states? Its all very early republican Roman but with Eastern ''Byzantine'' flavor added... Hagia Sophia and Dome of the Rock well adding the climate of new Rome... Which has 7 district when you add Abyss and the Eternity Gardens which were inaccessible btw... Place for expansion/DLC maybe?
Tigranes
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,350
Nothing wrong with using it aesthetically and as an easy leg up to get people into the actual game. Much better than a new game by a one man indie guy that tries to do a Tolkien and then you end up with Black Geysers everywhere.
Johannes
Arcane
Never said there's anything wrong with it. Just pondering how the aesthetics affects how you perceive everything else.
Compare Romeo & Julia to West Side Story, for example.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,350
tl;dr - I enjoyed spending my money on this game.
AoD has been the first game in a long time that's really been able to engage me in multiple ways; from the plot, to the lore, and then the mechanics of the game. I haven't had a game in a whilte that's engrossed me tot he point where when I'm done for the night, I'm looking forward to playing it tomorrow and discovering new things to do. Even less so has a game actually want to play though multiple times to see how the story evolves with difference player characters.
While the game feels short in some aspects, like game length, it's short and sweet. I played through the MG path on my first play-through and chose to be a diplo-craft-loremaster kinda guy and had a lot of fun with it. The skill checks and limiting of content based on attributes or player decisions was really cool, like in a way that you can't just 'do everything' even when I really really wanted to. I felt like my choices did have consequences and actually mattered. The lore and dialogue was really intriguing as well and at no point was I ever going 'what the fuck is going on?' only 'that's pretty cool'.
What I didn't like about the game, was that you can reach some of the 'real' endings without really knowing that you're going to be reaching an ending (not like a death ending).
My body count for the game ended at 2 (in a 'I completed all of the content that I can with this play-through' way; finished MG questline, somehow was able to complete the last Praetor quest for Daratan, did all of the side quests that I could complete), so I really didn't experience much of the combat, but I do expect to do a play-through with a praetor or assassin in the near future.
But anyways, Vault Dweller, thanks for assembling your crack team and making a really memorable game. I hope you're proud of your creation. Also shoutout to the Codex, since I probably wouldn't have played this game if it weren't for the obsession with it around here.
AoD has been the first game in a long time that's really been able to engage me in multiple ways; from the plot, to the lore, and then the mechanics of the game. I haven't had a game in a whilte that's engrossed me tot he point where when I'm done for the night, I'm looking forward to playing it tomorrow and discovering new things to do. Even less so has a game actually want to play though multiple times to see how the story evolves with difference player characters.
While the game feels short in some aspects, like game length, it's short and sweet. I played through the MG path on my first play-through and chose to be a diplo-craft-loremaster kinda guy and had a lot of fun with it. The skill checks and limiting of content based on attributes or player decisions was really cool, like in a way that you can't just 'do everything' even when I really really wanted to. I felt like my choices did have consequences and actually mattered. The lore and dialogue was really intriguing as well and at no point was I ever going 'what the fuck is going on?' only 'that's pretty cool'.
What I didn't like about the game, was that you can reach some of the 'real' endings without really knowing that you're going to be reaching an ending (not like a death ending).
For example, I got to the temple (and awoke the god) through the hellgate before I even really did anything in the 3rd town. I was probably about 2/3rds through the MG questline.
My body count for the game ended at 2 (in a 'I completed all of the content that I can with this play-through' way; finished MG questline, somehow was able to complete the last Praetor quest for Daratan, did all of the side quests that I could complete), so I really didn't experience much of the combat, but I do expect to do a play-through with a praetor or assassin in the near future.
But anyways, Vault Dweller, thanks for assembling your crack team and making a really memorable game. I hope you're proud of your creation. Also shoutout to the Codex, since I probably wouldn't have played this game if it weren't for the obsession with it around here.
Mychkine
Educated
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
- Messages
- 78
I just posted that on Metacritic. Forgive my mistakes, English is not my primary language.
"This is a very original game, an experiment in storytelling that I hadn't really played before, bar perhaps Fallout 1. For this is a game that, while not being very long, is certainly one of the widest games I have ever played.
Without spoilers, it has four acts, one per city and a finale where your former choices lead to one or another ending.
In each of these acts, you will be following a storyline that depends on your background (including your statistics) and your previous choices. You will also partake in some side quests, which are also background and choices dependant.
A single walkthrough will not be very long, a couple hours for a pure talker, a bit more for a combat focused character (the fighting system is well made and well detailed and would work well in a squad-based tactical game I think), but it will show you only one (or a couple for well-designed builds) facets of the big picture.
Nevertheless, you will have a lot of choices to make in most walkthrough, more so than in most RPG around, but what makes this game stand high and what will certainly make it stand the test of time is that, after several walkthoughs, there will still be shadows and mysteries to uncover for a new hero.
Let us hope this game will not be one-of-his-kind and that other developers and designers will follow in his footsteps, taking all what is good in it and improving on these bases."
"This is a very original game, an experiment in storytelling that I hadn't really played before, bar perhaps Fallout 1. For this is a game that, while not being very long, is certainly one of the widest games I have ever played.
Without spoilers, it has four acts, one per city and a finale where your former choices lead to one or another ending.
In each of these acts, you will be following a storyline that depends on your background (including your statistics) and your previous choices. You will also partake in some side quests, which are also background and choices dependant.
A single walkthrough will not be very long, a couple hours for a pure talker, a bit more for a combat focused character (the fighting system is well made and well detailed and would work well in a squad-based tactical game I think), but it will show you only one (or a couple for well-designed builds) facets of the big picture.
Nevertheless, you will have a lot of choices to make in most walkthrough, more so than in most RPG around, but what makes this game stand high and what will certainly make it stand the test of time is that, after several walkthoughs, there will still be shadows and mysteries to uncover for a new hero.
Let us hope this game will not be one-of-his-kind and that other developers and designers will follow in his footsteps, taking all what is good in it and improving on these bases."
MRY
Wormwood Studios
So I've been thinking more about the game's ending, and trying to grasp why exactly I found it unsatisfying. In addition to the thoughts in the prior post, it struck me that one problem is that the ending does not really offer the player the chance to resolve the philosophical argument that is -- or appeared to me to be -- the game's central conundrum, namely: What is the appropriate way to handle the powers of the past?
It seemed to me that the game quickly presented three major answers, which corresponded to the three cities and three noble houses: (1) take the powers of the past to make humans more powerful (Antidas/Teron); (2) seal up the powers of the past because they are too dangerous (Maadoran/Gaelius); and (3) worship the powers of the past because they are on a higher plane than we are (Meru/Ganezzar). (As a quick digression, one problem with this set up is that there is actually quite a bit more ancient technology being used and passed around in Maadoran than in Teron, and in fact you can get in good with Gaelius by reactivating the ancient smelting equipment, but let's set that stuff aside, and take the noblemen at their word.)
Absent extraordinary circumstances, the ending presents four options, but even though there are more options than there are competing philosophies, in fact the options only really cover one or two of the philsophies.
That's because three of the options are just variants on the Gaelius tack: you can kill the god; you can blow up the temple; or you can walk away (which I guess we could also call the Inferiae headwoman option).
The closest option to the Meru tack is to wake the god and agree to serve it, but in fact this option doesn't feel like a "worship" option at all because its posture isn't something like: "As terrible as the creature is to behold, mankind is walking the path to oblivion, and it is better to serve this creature in the hopes that it can lead us down a better road." Instead, it's, "Well, maybe I can advance my faction's interests and my own by siding with the god." Which is kind of like an Antidas option, except that Antidas was fixated on the physical artifacts of the past, and wanted control, not servitude.
I guess the main takeaway from the ending is that Gaelius was probably right, although maybe you need the ancient technology to defeat the gods, so some kind of hybrid approach would be right. But in any event, it seems like the ending should let the player come to his own view as to what the right approach is, and even if the ending subverts it and shows reasons why the player is wrong (every choice is a wrong choice, in some ways), at least then the player would be resolving the debate based on what he's learned and reflected on over the course of the game. As it stands, the player can't really do that.
If anything, the temple seems to repudiate the terms of the debate that started the game. There's no ancient technology to get, there's no god you can choose to worship, and the reason the world was destroyed in the past wasn't magitek WMDs but evil aliens. I mean, Gaelius turns out to be kind of right insofar as chasing technology brought the aliens into play, but that's not really what he was talking about.
While I can foresee arguments that it's brilliant to upend the terms of the debate, I'm not so sure. Like the map turning out to be irrelevant, having the final choice basic operate on a different axis from the framing debate means that the final choice doesn't bring the game to a conclusion so much as it just brings the game to an end. Especially when this is combined with the final choice not actually using any of the power or skills you've developed unless you went a lore-crafting or combat build, it makes it feel hollow.
It seems to me like the main temple choice could be adjusted in a fairly slight way and it would resolve at least some of my concerns. You could have plenty of magitek gear there -- huge machines that seem to have military use, but not personal weaponry. (Causing those machines to overload could take the place of the conveniently placed self-destruct button.) One option (or set of options) would be to bring word of that stuff back to the faction leaders. Then you could have Agathoth more actively seek to persuade the player to agree to go get a leader to serve him, rather than basically have the god already be sufficiently powerful that he can mindcontrol the world if need be. That way, the player enlisting a leader's help for Agathoth feels more like a volitional and important choice, rather than simply a slight acceleration of what inevitably will happen. Moreover, it makes it a meaningful screw-up by the player. For example, if the leader options became something like, "Meru, at last we have a god to worship!" and then the ending text is that he's a mind-controlling evil alien, to me that is a much better, "Look how fools repeat the errors of the past" ending, whereas currently it feels a little un-impactful (what a horrid word). Similarly, the pitches the player makes to other leaders could be predicated on the idea that Agathoth could be controlled and manipulated, again giving the player the chance to make the same mistakes as the Magi, rather than having him willingly shackle himself.
I might also make it a bit harder to get down to where Agathoth is, such that the player could conceivably be unable to get to him and be forced to jump ship beforehand.
All of the outcomes could still be depressing, but it seems like at least in that scenario, they would feel like conclusions of the themes that were set in motion at the outset.
It seemed to me that the game quickly presented three major answers, which corresponded to the three cities and three noble houses: (1) take the powers of the past to make humans more powerful (Antidas/Teron); (2) seal up the powers of the past because they are too dangerous (Maadoran/Gaelius); and (3) worship the powers of the past because they are on a higher plane than we are (Meru/Ganezzar). (As a quick digression, one problem with this set up is that there is actually quite a bit more ancient technology being used and passed around in Maadoran than in Teron, and in fact you can get in good with Gaelius by reactivating the ancient smelting equipment, but let's set that stuff aside, and take the noblemen at their word.)
Absent extraordinary circumstances, the ending presents four options, but even though there are more options than there are competing philosophies, in fact the options only really cover one or two of the philsophies.
That's because three of the options are just variants on the Gaelius tack: you can kill the god; you can blow up the temple; or you can walk away (which I guess we could also call the Inferiae headwoman option).
The closest option to the Meru tack is to wake the god and agree to serve it, but in fact this option doesn't feel like a "worship" option at all because its posture isn't something like: "As terrible as the creature is to behold, mankind is walking the path to oblivion, and it is better to serve this creature in the hopes that it can lead us down a better road." Instead, it's, "Well, maybe I can advance my faction's interests and my own by siding with the god." Which is kind of like an Antidas option, except that Antidas was fixated on the physical artifacts of the past, and wanted control, not servitude.
I guess the main takeaway from the ending is that Gaelius was probably right, although maybe you need the ancient technology to defeat the gods, so some kind of hybrid approach would be right. But in any event, it seems like the ending should let the player come to his own view as to what the right approach is, and even if the ending subverts it and shows reasons why the player is wrong (every choice is a wrong choice, in some ways), at least then the player would be resolving the debate based on what he's learned and reflected on over the course of the game. As it stands, the player can't really do that.
If anything, the temple seems to repudiate the terms of the debate that started the game. There's no ancient technology to get, there's no god you can choose to worship, and the reason the world was destroyed in the past wasn't magitek WMDs but evil aliens. I mean, Gaelius turns out to be kind of right insofar as chasing technology brought the aliens into play, but that's not really what he was talking about.
While I can foresee arguments that it's brilliant to upend the terms of the debate, I'm not so sure. Like the map turning out to be irrelevant, having the final choice basic operate on a different axis from the framing debate means that the final choice doesn't bring the game to a conclusion so much as it just brings the game to an end. Especially when this is combined with the final choice not actually using any of the power or skills you've developed unless you went a lore-crafting or combat build, it makes it feel hollow.
It seems to me like the main temple choice could be adjusted in a fairly slight way and it would resolve at least some of my concerns. You could have plenty of magitek gear there -- huge machines that seem to have military use, but not personal weaponry. (Causing those machines to overload could take the place of the conveniently placed self-destruct button.) One option (or set of options) would be to bring word of that stuff back to the faction leaders. Then you could have Agathoth more actively seek to persuade the player to agree to go get a leader to serve him, rather than basically have the god already be sufficiently powerful that he can mindcontrol the world if need be. That way, the player enlisting a leader's help for Agathoth feels more like a volitional and important choice, rather than simply a slight acceleration of what inevitably will happen. Moreover, it makes it a meaningful screw-up by the player. For example, if the leader options became something like, "Meru, at last we have a god to worship!" and then the ending text is that he's a mind-controlling evil alien, to me that is a much better, "Look how fools repeat the errors of the past" ending, whereas currently it feels a little un-impactful (what a horrid word). Similarly, the pitches the player makes to other leaders could be predicated on the idea that Agathoth could be controlled and manipulated, again giving the player the chance to make the same mistakes as the Magi, rather than having him willingly shackle himself.
I might also make it a bit harder to get down to where Agathoth is, such that the player could conceivably be unable to get to him and be forced to jump ship beforehand.
All of the outcomes could still be depressing, but it seems like at least in that scenario, they would feel like conclusions of the themes that were set in motion at the outset.
You over analyzing the game Komrade the central theme is how to advance your standing and that of your chosen faction without killing yourself and too much of world left in process. You can complete the game not using single gadget of the past especially in IG aka whoever we join will win playthrou; Paulinas even said that all those Tech gadgets are fine but they can burn Maadoran to the ground with torches if needed.
Johannes
Arcane
So, I've just finished this gem, and I must say I enjoyed it quite a lot. Although unfortunately VD tripped a little at the end, but I will get to this in a bit. I went with a full talky-talky loremaster, without any combat, and it was very fun. And fuck you all who think that this is lame. I'm not a combat fag, so for me a non-combat playthrough is just as interesting. But it was clear that there is much content which can only be seen with other builds, and that's not a bad thing.
I'm not a huge history, or roman buff, but the story was interesting. Not too exciting, but it was alright, and kept me on my toes. The world was also very interesting, it was fun to explore this rotten civilization, which was glorius centuries ago.
The length was a little short for an RPG with its 12 hours, but at least you can make several playthroughs with different characters faster. The thing I was not happy with is that
But this was a minor annoyance.
What also annoyed me is the lack of end credits. WTF VD? Maybe you don't realize but this is very important. In games, you reach the end, the climax, and then you watch the credits, listen the music and reflect on the game. It solidifies the mood. But here? You have your last converstion, there is a slide about the fate of a faction and BOOM you are out in the main menu. I was so struck by this that it pulled me out of the mood entirely. Of course this doesn't make the game bad or anything, it's just a little unfortunate.
Anyway, congrats to ITS, you did a great job.
I'm not a huge history, or roman buff, but the story was interesting. Not too exciting, but it was alright, and kept me on my toes. The world was also very interesting, it was fun to explore this rotten civilization, which was glorius centuries ago.
The length was a little short for an RPG with its 12 hours, but at least you can make several playthroughs with different characters faster. The thing I was not happy with is that
after reaching the temple, the game winds down very quickly. I find the god, free him/or not, bring him a leader and that's it, game over. And after you step into the temple, you can't leave anymore, at least I couldn't. I wanted to, because there was 2 more locations I haven't even visited.
What also annoyed me is the lack of end credits. WTF VD? Maybe you don't realize but this is very important. In games, you reach the end, the climax, and then you watch the credits, listen the music and reflect on the game. It solidifies the mood. But here? You have your last converstion, there is a slide about the fate of a faction and BOOM you are out in the main menu. I was so struck by this that it pulled me out of the mood entirely. Of course this doesn't make the game bad or anything, it's just a little unfortunate.
Anyway, congrats to ITS, you did a great job.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,350
I was a little thrown off by the lack of credits as well. But it may be due to the fact that the developers wanted to stay anonymous (that's just speculation anyways). The game has been in early access for a while so I figure that if that was going to be an intended feature, they would have included it lol.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 28,035
Main Menu -> Options -> Credits
Cadmus
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
- Messages
- 4,264
You should have put them there at the end, dude. What JC is saying is totally true for me as well, you sit back, listen to some tunes and reflect on the game, at least for a few moments. It brings you a closure. It's not like it would be so hard to add those few names and a fade out or something, no?
Johannes
Arcane
The game should say "GAME OVER" when it's finished.
Forest Dweller
Smoking Dicks
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 12,211
I agree. The ending is way too abrupt.
Agree; fates of other settlements like Monastery and Infariae should be showed in the outro Fallout style.
Forest Dweller
Smoking Dicks
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 12,211
As well as major characters.
You know that's not the same.
The ending is so abrupt, at first I though I encountered some bug which threw me out of the game.
Irenaeus II
Unwanted
Agbree with above criticsm about the abruptness of the ending and returning to main screen
Irenaeus II
Unwanted
I can provide a full BR translation of the game if needed, also voice work.
No BR translation is even remotely acceptable without Goku/Bear Grylls/pretty much everyone's voice. That guy is a fugging legend...
Irenaeus II
Unwanted
My knowledge of Brazilian voice work dubs stops in the early 90s.
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