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RTS Any top-down 2D-ish RTS games in the making out there (Kickstarter or not)?

Lunac

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Any modern equivalents of Dune2k/Command&Conquer out there (HQ mods and/or hires patches of old RTS games from 90s do not count)? Or is that sub-genre dead as Star Trek? I find fully 3D RTS games that became the norm in the early 2000s gimmicky+unplayable+completeshit. I've replayed the old classic 90s RTS titles and all the expansions/sequels to those titles about a half a dozen times by now. Anything out there? Has this kickstarter craze done anything good for the genre?


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Damned Registrations

Damned Registrations

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What exactly is the difference between the two aside from visuals? I can't think of anything 3D takes away from the genre mechanically the way it does for say, platformers.

Anyways go play AI Wars. For like 300 hours. And sell everything you own and give Arcen all your monies.
 
Lunac

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Damned Registrations said:
What exactly is the difference between the two aside from visuals? I can't think of anything 3D takes away from the genre mechanically the way it does for say, platformers.

Anyways go play AI Wars. For like 300 hours. And sell everything you own and give Arcen all your monies.
Click to expand...


3D takes away everything, including basic playability of these games. Aside of being a PR bullet point in early days of 3D in order to sell more units, 3D itself did nothing to make these games better. #1 offender being the fucken camera views and zoom-hell these games had to implement for user to deal with the 3D bullshit! Cannot believe that after a decade and some change, everyone still has a separate take on how camera views and zoom modes are handled in these games. It always goes: "Ah, I've selected these 20 Cyborg-Killa-Infantry units... I think it's 20, maybe 15... maybe 30... they are all stacked behind each other, on top of each other, and behind various buildings or visual-obstacles or protruding landscape.... now my soldiers of doom, go this way down this valley... ah fuck, goddamn hills are in the way I can't see shit! Zoom out! Zoom in! Zoom out! Flatten! Change angle! Again, again, again, again! Ah, there they are!" It shouldn't be that much work. Using arrow/WASD keys or simply the mouse in the X-Y axes seems more intuitive and natural, and just faster/to-the-point. Do we got to dick around and micro-manage god damn camera views half the time in these games?


Anyway, anything out there?

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Abelian

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I played Bos Wars, an open source RTS game, a couple of years ago, but it was missing the campaign.
 
Destroid

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The last game like this I recall was SunAge, which was pretty fun and has beautiful graphics. It's quite a few years old now though.

SunAgeD.jpg


I think it's very difficult to compete with the entrenched players in the RTS and FPS genres, they aren't a very good spot for indies.
 
Abelian

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I'm not sure if you've heard about it, but there's a an open source (and greatly expanded) version of the old C&C games. Check out this thread.
 
pakoito

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Does Rise of Nations count as 2d~ish? Maybe Tzar and his rain of fire muslims?
 
Chef_Hathaway

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I guess I'll have to wait for them to re-release it on GoG or something, as it seems the only place it's available now is on the Windows 8 app store. Oh well.
 
DraQ

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Lunac said:
Damned Registrations said:
What exactly is the difference between the two aside from visuals? I can't think of anything 3D takes away from the genre mechanically the way it does for say, platformers.

Anyways go play AI Wars. For like 300 hours. And sell everything you own and give Arcen all your monies.
Click to expand...


3D takes away everything, including basic playability of these games. Aside of being a PR bullet point in early days of 3D in order to sell more units, 3D itself did nothing to make these games better. #1 offender being the fucken camera views and zoom-hell these games had to implement for user to deal with the 3D bullshit! Cannot believe that after a decade and some change, everyone still has a separate take on how camera views and zoom modes are handled in these games. It always goes: "Ah, I've selected these 20 Cyborg-Killa-Infantry units... I think it's 20, maybe 15... maybe 30... they are all stacked behind each other, on top of each other, and behind various buildings or visual-obstacles or protruding landscape.... now my soldiers of doom, go this way down this valley... ah fuck, goddamn hills are in the way I can't see shit! Zoom out! Zoom in! Zoom out! Flatten! Change angle! Again, again, again, again! Ah, there they are!" It shouldn't be that much work. Using arrow/WASD keys or simply the mouse in the X-Y axes seems more intuitive and natural, and just faster/to-the-point. Do we got to dick around and micro-manage god damn camera views half the time in these games?


Anyway, anything out there?

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Click to expand...
That's not 3D, that's shitty implementation of 3D.

Tell me, why shouldn't you be able to look straight down, at desired zoom level in a 3D RTS?
That effectively replicates both look and functionality of a 2D RTS while still allowing rotation and other view angles when they may be desirable.

There are 3 kinds of 3D RTS - games that allow the above, games that are too reliant on 3D in actual gameplay for that to cut it (Myth, Homeworld) and turds.
 
Abelian

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3D RTS games I've enjoyed: Earth 2150, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warcraft 3, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Command & Conquer: Generals.
I don't recall having problems with the camera in any of them.
 
Abelian

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DraQ said:
Abelian said:
3D RTS games I've enjoyed: Earth 2150, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warcraft 3, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Command & Conquer: Generals.
I don't recall having problems with the camera in any of them.
Click to expand...
No Myth or original HW? :x

Anyway, 3D was absolutely integral to HW gameplay and camera felt very natural.
Click to expand...
They're not there because I haven't played them. To be honest, the reason I didn't try the original HW is because I played Cataclysm first, then found out you can't control the mothership and don't have the time speed-up in its predecessor. I may play them at some later point in time.
 
DraQ

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Abelian said:
DraQ said:
Abelian said:
3D RTS games I've enjoyed: Earth 2150, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warcraft 3, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Command & Conquer: Generals.
I don't recall having problems with the camera in any of them.
Click to expand...
No Myth or original HW? :x

Anyway, 3D was absolutely integral to HW gameplay and camera felt very natural.
Click to expand...
They're not there because I haven't played them. To be honest, the reason I didn't try the original HW is because I played Cataclysm first, then found out you can't control the mothership and don't have the time speed-up in its predecessor. I may play them at some later point in time.
Click to expand...
:decline:

Time compression was good in HW:C, so were modules and playing with siege cannon, but overall it's a far inferior game. Lack of non-gimmicky units, combined with strict SU limits and braindead homing energy cannons pretty much shot gameplay complexity.
HW1 is far superior even if you may want to keep a book handy if you tend to harvest levels.
 
Storyfag

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DraQ said:
Abelian said:
3D RTS games I've enjoyed: Earth 2150, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warcraft 3, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Command & Conquer: Generals.
I don't recall having problems with the camera in any of them.
Click to expand...
No Myth or original HW? :x
Click to expand...

Exactly, add these, add HW2, replace Generals with Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars and its addon Kane's Wrath. Never had the issues the OP is butthurt about with any of these games.
 
Chef_Hathaway

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Storyfag said:
DraQ said:
Abelian said:
3D RTS games I've enjoyed: Earth 2150, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warcraft 3, Homeworld: Cataclysm, Command & Conquer: Generals.
I don't recall having problems with the camera in any of them.
Click to expand...
No Myth or original HW?
Click to expand...

Exactly, add these, add HW2, replace Generals with Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars and its addon Kane's Wrath. Never had the issues the OP is butthurt about with any of these games.
Click to expand...

I'd also add: Rise of Nations, even though some people seem to dislike it, is really good for what it attempts, Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance, because the original is boring as shit, and Empire Earth 1, as a decently fun AoEish clone.
 

Misconnected

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Lunac said:
[3D takes away everything, including basic playability of these games.
Click to expand...

In most cases, sure. Because it's done by fuckwits. But Supreme Commander proves 3D is vastly superior to 2D, when done by people who know what they're doing.

SupCom doesn't default to vanity camera controls, has infinite zoom, and models all projectiles. Basically, the SupCom games are genuinely three dimensional - without compromising the player's ability to interface with the games.

SupCom:FA is quite possibly the best RTS of all time, and a huge part of the reason is that it's a total simulation without an impaired interface. Though I really, really wish someone would cast raise dead on the developer and get them to remake it with modern pathfinding tech.

EDIT: As a pure SP game, I can only Nth the AI Wars: Fleet Command suggestion. Content-wise it's the Dominions of RTS games, and the game has an exceptionally good AI on all levels of the game - and difficulty settings ranging from total cakewalk to the literally impossible. You'll be sick and tired of it long before the replay value runs out, and I'm not sure you can grow sick and tired of it. I haven't, and I've been playing it since release.
 
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