Aliens RPG now "officially canceled."

[Rosh]

1eyedking: Or they were hoping for some product placement like I mentioned before.

"They track by sense of smell! Quick, flood the compartments with Axe Deodorant!"

 

[MLMarkland]

Goddamit men, it's pretty simple: stealth is all about remaining undetected by the enemy (it's what thieves in D&D do, what prowling vampires in Masquerade do, and what Garrett in Thief does).

Usually it requires the player to remain unheard, unseen...unfelt: completely avoiding the other being's senses.

If a Xenomorph can smell you, and can see in the dark, it's pretty much obvious you can't be stealthy around the little fuckers (unless the creative fellows at Obsidian gave us a Pheromone Inhibitor Invisibility Suit™ or made Xenomorphs blind or some other shit.).

So basically they fucked up.

As usual.

Your first paragraph is great. Stealth is indeed about being undetected (which is why it was the word we used to describe things related to non-detection by the Aliens).

What you are mistaken about is that this non-detection needs to occur at close proximity. A stealth bomber is stealthy, in part, because it is very far away from the observers it is attempting to remain undetected by.

 

[MLMarkland]

1eyedking: Or they were hoping for some product placement like I mentioned before.

"They track by sense of smell! Quick, flood the compartments with Axe Deodorant!"

You should stick to hyperbole. Your hyperbole is much more entertaining than your humor.

 

[Rosh]

You should stick to hyperbole. Your hyperbole is much more entertaining than your humor.

Your defense of the bastardization of established gameplay concepts still reads like shit.

 

[MLMarkland]

You should stick to hyperbole. Your hyperbole is much more entertaining than your humor.

Your defense of the bastardization of established gameplay concepts still reads like shit.

Yeah, but my sonnets are the fucking bomb.

I'm going to the "what is stealth in an rpg" thread to talk about things that actually matter, like gameplay, rather than the definition of words.

 

[bat_boro]

Ha, thanks for the advice.

I'm watching a movie for work research while I type responses.

Some research on that new super secret mr. Markland?
And which movie would that be?

 

[Rosh]

Yeah, but my sonnets are the fucking bomb.

I'm going to the "what is stealth in an rpg" thread to talk about things that actually matter, like gameplay, rather than the definition of words.

Try not to hurt yourself, though your continued excuses shall most certainly be an entertaining read, quite possibly an object lesson for developers who can pay attention to mechanics and design concepts.

Have fun!

 

[1eyedking]

1eyedking: Or they were hoping for some product placement like I mentioned before.

"They track by sense of smell! Quick, flood the compartments with Axe Deodorant!"

"But wait, they can also see in the dark! Everyone turn on your Stealth Boys*!"

Pathetic.

What you are mistaken about is that this non-detection needs to occur at close proximity. A stealth bomber is stealthy, in part, because it is very far away from the observers it is attempting to remain undetected by.

Great, so we would be playing with stealth bombers. Fly around doing nothing but dropping bombs. Fucking stealthy indeed.

So there would be no sneaking involved? As in hiding in shadows? Watching patrol movements? Avoiding enemy line-of-sight? OK, then, let's reinvent the wheel!

*: see what I did there?

 

[MLMarkland]

So there would be no sneaking involved? As in hiding in shadows? Watching patrol movements? Avoiding enemy line-of-sight? OK, then, let's reinvent the wheel!

*: see what I did there?

You are assuming too much about what all was actually intended.

At the end of the day, arguing about this is pointless because no one is going to read the design docs or play the game.

The goal was to simulate what it would be like in the Alien and Aliens movies within the context of a roleplaying game. It would've been pretty awesome if we had executed it properly, but there were other factors at play beyond any one designer or producer's control.

 

[MLMarkland]

Ha, thanks for the advice.

I'm watching a movie for work research while I type responses.

Some research on that new super secret mr. Markland?
And which movie would that be?

If you are referencing a super secret Obsidian project no. I'm not familiar with what they are working on beyond F:NV and AP, neither of which I really worked on (AP for a couple of weeks before I quit for the new gig).

I'm at another studio now.

 

[bat_boro]

If you are referencing the super secret Obsidian project no.

I'm at another studio now.

Oh, I just woke up and forgot about it. BTW, the time I went to sleep was 12.30 AM, now I wake up at 9 AM and what do I see - you're still arguing about stealth. That's something

Mr. Markland, have you had any developing experience with that new Obsidian project? What are your general thoughts on it, since I guess you couldn't go into specifics.

Edit: Yeah, I had to try my luck, thanks for the answer.
Which studio are you working now anyway?
Something RPG related, maybe?

 

[MLMarkland]

If you are referencing the super secret Obsidian project no.

I'm at another studio now.

Oh, I just woke up and forgot about it. BTW, the time I went to sleep was 12.30 AM, now I wake up at 9 AM and what do I see - you're still arguing about stealth. That's something

Mr. Markland, have you had any developing experience with that new Obsidian project? What are your general thoughts on it, since I guess you couldn't go into specifics.

Edit: Yeah, I had to try my luck, thanks for the answer.
Which studio are you working now anyway?
Something RPG related, maybe?

It's a startup formed by a group of Southern California game designers, programmers, producers, artists and animators and the subject for another thread in another time and place. I'll post what we're up to on the codex when it's announced. I've always been an RPG guy first and foremost from AD&D and Rifts to Fallout and Torment to my time at Obsidian.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

What sophistry is this? Three pages of arguing about the freaking name of a game system? The hell, Codex? Who cares what name they decided to use, as long as the end result would be fun to play?

 

[MLMarkland]

What sophistry is this? Three pages of arguing about the freaking name of a game system? The hell, Codex? Who cares what name they decided to use, as long as the end result would be fun to play?

4realz right?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

 

[Tigranes]

What the fuck happened? Rosh is supposed to come round every year or two, write some books about quality design then go missing again. This is just like a set of skyway clones.

I'd have liked to see what they wanted to do with setting up turrets or traps or whatnot - those kind of defensive / preparation-based mechanics haven't really worked very well in previous Bio/BIS RPGs because of the level design (room after room of enemies you actively walk into and clear) and the AI (which can't see you until you're RIGHT THERE, then just runs at you like idiots). Alien behaviour would have been the big thing - if there's one thing you'd want Obsidian to do right with Onyx it would be AI (though the jury is still out on whether they can do good with an engine on their own).

 

[Chefe]

Well, we've always wondered who skyway was an alt of. Now we know.

 

[Rosh]

Well, we've always wondered who skyway was an alt of. Now we know.

Not really, but I do occasionally egg on a developer to see some of their reasoning or depth of thought put behind their design decisions.

Stealth against xenomorphs. Who woulda thunk it? Obsidian is just that good!

 

[MLMarkland]

Well, we've always wondered who skyway was an alt of. Now we know.

Not really, but I do occasionally egg on a developer to see some of their reasoning or depth of thought put behind their design decisions.

Stealth against xenomorphs. Who woulda thunk it? Obsidian is just that good!

Wait... would you rather it be all shooting?

 

[Rosh]

Wait... would you rather it be all shooting?

Well, I don't think you can talk them to death.

Please, by all means, explain how you'd use stealth against a hive that uses scent to track, can see in the dark, and has a very acute sense of sound.

Trapping and remote camera surveillance is already in the established canon, and it is the combination of that and the marine brute force that the humans ever had a chance against xenomorphs.

Unless you completely follow the movies. There is far more fiction background.

 

[Chefe]

Well, we've always wondered who skyway was an alt of. Now we know.

Not really, but I do occasionally egg on a developer to see some of their reasoning or depth of thought put behind their design decisions.

So, he resorts to spam and you resort to "It was all a test"?

If both sides declare defeat then who is the victor?

 

[Rosh]

So, he resorts to spam and you resort to "It was all a test"?

No, I resorted to seeing what the hell it was they were thinking, not only in regards to considering anything like "stealth" against xenomorphs, but also as to their design philosophy and design structure there at Obsidian. Together with a few other sources of information, I've been trying to figure out why their games have come out half-finished shit as of recent since they were aborted from Herve Caen's Interplay.

In the setting, it is the xenomorphs who are the masters of stealth, and it took EVERYTHING the humans could throw at them to even hold them off. Still, they most often got fucked up beyond recognition.

 

[circ]

Wait... would you rather it be all shooting?

Like it was in Aliens? I wouldn't mind.

Here's a hypothetical situation using stealth.

Sgt: Private, go hook up the base defense.

Prvt: Yeah ok.

Later.

Prvt P: Stealthing up the base defense, stealthing up the base defense. Fuck fuck fuckity fuck.

Later, the private returns from setting up the base defense.

Sgt: Is it done?

Prvt: Is what done?

Sgt: The base defense fucknuts. Did you hook it up?

Prvt: Uh no.

Sgt: Then what the fuck have you been doing for three hours?

Prvt: Stealthing sir.

Sgt: Jesus, you stupid fucking.. Aw fuck. Private #2, go recon the xenos.

Prvt #2: Recon sir? Don't you mean go suicide myself against the xenos?

Sgt: No I mean.. Um, no. Go uh, stealth the xenos.

Prvt #2: Oh, stealth I can do sir.

Later, screams, chunks of Private #2 are found in the toilet.

Prvt #3: Fuck sarge, how did they know he was stealthing in the toilet? HOW DID THEY KNOW?

Sgt: I.. I don't know. Private #3. Stealth this shit up.

Prvt #3: *sigh* Yes sir.

Later.

Prvt #4: We're surrounded sarge. Our defenses are fucked, we can't take a dump because the toilet got stealthed. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do sarge? Huh?

Sgt: We're gonna sneak past them.

Later - the squad click on the stealth button and sneak past the xenos.

A second later they scream as they're eviscerated. The Sgt. is spared so he can be a daddy for a chestburster.

Chestburster bursts out of the Sgt's chest. Stealthily. Yet, the Sgt screams like someone chopped his dick off.

Later in the xenomorph command center. Xenomorphs can talk now because this is Obsidian.

Xeno Leader: Hahaha. Those stupid fucks thought they could sneak past us!

Xeno peon #1: Dumb motherfuckers. And what the fuck was that stealth shit about?

Xeno peon #2: I think they were trying to confuse us.

Xeno Leader: Confuse US? Get fucking real.

 

[MLMarkland]

I refuse to accept that, when presented with the question: Will you design me an Aliens RPG? That the only two answers are: "Okay here's a game where we shoot a bunch of Aliens" and "No, can't do it."

Are you really arguing for a shooter-gameplay-only Aliens RPG? Not only would that be boring, it would also be no different than the planned Aliens FPS. Also it would be incongruent with the movies.

I've watched the first two Aliens movies as a part of my job roughly 40-50 times in the past two years.

What characterizes BOTH movies is that whenever the humans tried to engage in a stand-up fight they died. Ignoring that fact to make a fun game isn't an acceptable solution, imho.

Ripley and Newt survived because they used their environment to survive.

That is what the stealth-like/evasion gameplay design was focused on -- being aware of the environment, using the environment, modifying the environment with traps/mines/whatnot, avoiding dormant Aliens (like the Alien at the end of Alien), etc.

The stealth gameplay was focused not on wakeful Aliens potentially cognizant of your presence, but on dormant Aliens, Alien Eggs, potentially hostile Humans, etc.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

It wouldn't, by any chance come into your fucking mind Rosh, that perhaps the chaps are using some special technology (i.e. sound emitters etc.) that makes evasion of the xenomorphs working? Or perhaps it only works with certain species, like genetically altered xenomorphs? This would make the gameplay mechanic absolutely legitime.
Either way, I'd rather accept this than skipping on an interesting mechanic alltogether for the sake of "realism".