A majestic review of Mass 2 Effect!

[Grunker]

A good review FOR GREAT RPG-JUSTICE!

I like, Andy.

EDIT: By the way, Horsie, do you happen to play 2v2 in SC2?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Starcraft 2 is a disgrace, so no.

 

[Achilles]

Congratulations on noticing that the decline of the RPG is as strong and steady as ever, but ME2 isn't really treading any new ground. Even if it did, that would be a much more appropriate subject for an editorial than a review.

Yeah, I guess it's no use getting butthurt over ME2 when the same thing has been happening for years. I really should come to terms with the death of the RPG, no use fighting battles for a war that's been over for years.

it doesn't mean I think of a game as automatically bad for not being one, and from your posts, I get the impression that you do.

Kind of. I do play action games but I would probably prefer a mediocre RPG over a good action game. Just to clarify though, I think that ME2 is a good game (for what it is). It just saddens me that this type of 'RPG' is all we can except in the future.

I do see your point - that because of ME2's success, this is what people are going to hold up as the pinnacle of RPG gaming from now on

Yes, exactly. Anyway, I raged not because of Andy's review (which did accurately describe the pros and cons of the game) but because I saw people comparing ME2 with DA, even though they belong to a different genre. Oh, and because, well, this is the Codex. It somehow feels... wrong to read a review that praises a popamole game, especially one that is sure to kick the decline of the RPG into overdrive.

 

[relootz]

ITT the codex defends a consoleport third person shit shooter.

 

[Grunker]

ITT the codex defends a consoleport third person shit shooter.

ITT relootz showcases an extraordinary amount of butthurt.

 

[commie]

Agree with it, especially with the people look better in AP, because they fucking do! That old fucker at the beginning had a very convincing turkey neck which you never see in any other game and appropriate liver spots.

I couldn't stand the classic square jawed looking Shepard anyway in the first ME, so I made a 'normal' looking one that actually looks much better and fits the voice perfectly, so I didn't notice Shepard looking as grotesque as you did though.

Good shit Horsey!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

ITT the codex defends a consoleport third person shit shooter.

ITT relootz showcases the usual amount of butthurt.

fix

 

[obediah]

Well, it took me long enough but I think I have finally figured out the Codex. There are a few people here who actually care about RPGs and proper games, and then there's the 12 year olds who all have consoles, play dumbed down games all day and only come here for the lulz of GD.

This is the only explanation that makes sense to me, because I can't think of any other reason for people to bitch and moan about proper PC games on the basis of some miniscule change and, on the other hand, praise the game that is decline incarnate.

Seriously, it makes me absolutely mad that some people would have no problem ripping a hypothetical Baldur's Gate 3 a new one if it so much as changes the colour of an armor set, then be all "cool story bro" when a game like Mass Effect 2 violently rapes the RPG genre up the ass.

And don't give me that "good for what it is" crap, if a game calls itself a RPG it should be judged as such.

Hah! You're coming in all "PC Elitist" and then you drop Baldur's Gate as your hammer?



BG(1|2) were shitty cash grabs that raped the RPG genre by mainstreaming it in the ass - just like every other Bioware game.

 

[Grunker]

So you acuse him of being a PC elitist and then use an elitist argument to counter his?

I don't agree with him but that was a terrible attempt at a counter-argument, as well as one hell of a strawman.

Baldur's Gate 2 is p. good btw

 

[obediah]

So you acuse him of being a PC elitist and then use an elitist argument to counter his?

I don't agree with him but that was a terrible attempt at a counter-argument, as well as one hell of a strawman.

You should spend less time learning your logical fallacies and more on basic reading comprehension. I was just kicking Alexandros a few rungs down the elitist latter. Sure he and all the other BG2 faggots will be butthurt about it, but a few of them may be able to rub enough brain cells together to have some dim understanding in ten years when they see some little fucking consoletard bitching about how Titgrabber 4 is a dumbed down RPG that sullies the name of the classic Mass Effect 2.

Baldur's Gate 2 is p. good btw

Shut your RTwP hole.

 

[Achilles]

So you acuse him of being a PC elitist and then use an elitist argument to counter his?

Being called a PC Elitist is not an accusation, it's a badge of honor.

Hah! You're coming in all "PC Elitist" and then you drop Baldur's Gate as your hammer?

Uh, I'm not really sure what I did wrong here. I mentioned a random name from an older RPG series, the first that came to my mind actually.You are welcome to replace it with Fallout 3 (a hypothetical true Fallout 3), Arcanum 2, Bloodlines 2, whatever you want. Baldur's Gate was a decent game though, and Baldur's Gate 2 was quite good in my opinion.

The thing I don't undestand is why there are people praising Bioware for removing gameplay elements. In ME 2 Bioware removed the inventory, made all the levels small and linear, replaced tedious Mako levels with god-awful minigames, dumbed down most of the RPG elements and removed the effect of stats on combat.

Now, I agree that some of these things didn't work as intended in the first game, but surely the solution should be to improve said elements, not remove them altogether. Thinking that the Codex loathes the dumbing down of games, I was quite sure that everyone would bash it. Instead, they apparently think it's good for what it is. This reaction puzzles me. Aren't we supposed to want deeper, more complex games?

Compare the difference in reaction:

Heroes VI is announced, turn-based strategy exclusive to PC but there are fewer resources and you can convert cities:

Mass Effect 2 is out, removes most of the RPG stuff and it's pretty much a popamole shooter:


At the risk of sounding a bit , I don't get it. If someone can explain it to me, I'd be grateful.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

As the others already said, the codexers who praise the game are praising it's change of focus from RPG to action, as that improved the feel of the game. Also, the codex wants deeper and more complex RPGs; since ME is distancing itself from them, they don't feel mad. Then again, you already stated you like RPGs above all other genres, even if quality suffers, so maybe even the thought of a mediocre RPG being turned into a better-than-mediocre action RPG annoys you. To clarify:

removes most of the RPG stuff

The codex as a whole didn't consider these well implemented, so their removal pushes the game into a better direction (in other words, "good for what it is", if you're one of those who classifies games as either excellent or shit, no middleground).

so yeah, Bio removed elements instead of improving them. But since that made the game better than it would be (realistically, not the usual delirious codexian "what it should be"), that is, ME1 with more or less improved mediocre RPG elements, people have more to gain from enjoying the new actiony feel instead of crying over removed mediocre RPG elements.

tl;dr: cup half empty for some, half filled for others.

 

[Der_Unbekannte]

Problem is not that ME2 is now an action game. Problem is that they still advertise it as a RPG.
ME being successfull creates to urge to copy the "streamlining", see Dragon Age 2.

If Bioware said something like: "Fuck Space-Rpgs, ME2 will be a hardcore shooter!" Everything would be great, but unfortunately they didn't.

So it is still classified as a RPG, gaming "magazines" praise it as "BEST AR PE GE EVAAAAR!", other developers follow, tactical and complex RPGs become extinct.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Eventually, the streamlining will make these games so distant from RPGs that no one would be able to call them so with a straight face, and we'll be back to the "Action games = sex" era. I wouldn't be so worried.

There's only so much content you can strip and still have it resemble the original content, after all.

 

[obediah]

Eventually, the streamlining will make these games so distant from RPGs that no one would be able to call them so with a straight face, and we'll be back to the "Action games = sex" era. I wouldn't be so worried.

I weep for your optimism.

There's only so much content you can strip and still have it resemble the original content, after all.

We passed that spot quite a while back. Games will continue to converge. "Hardcore game" will mean a FPS/TPS not controlled by a wii-mote. If it has a skill tree or romance option it will be an rpg, if it has a jump button it will be action-adventure. Throw in fake dialog trees, "open world", branching quests or other junk to pad out your tag list for search engines. Then start cranking out sequels.

 

[ghostdog]

Nice review horsey. I agree with most of it.


If only they managed to have a fairly interesting backstory this time around and not the same moronic shit. Really, the mundanity and stupidity of the whole Reaper story is unbelievable, even for Bioware standards.





Oh, and you're still funny.

In the strange/funny sense.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I weep for your optimism.

Well, it's either that or /wrists

 

[obediah]

I weep for your optimism.

Well, it's either that or /wrists

It will gradually fade to curmudgeonly cynicism. You'll be no fun at parties, but you'll get to be right a lot more often.

 

[Monkeysphere]

What i hated the most in ME2 was the cringe inducing story ...dont remember last time i rolled my eyes that much. compared to ME1 (which was mash of old sci fi novels, like Frederik Pohl's "Gateway" and others) its really shitty.i liked the execution of story in ME2 better tho.

Also about shadowy grafix , its actually a bug in engine when depth of field is turned on, there is a way to fix it, but its either turning of DoF in .ini files (game looks shittier tho), or manually editing shader files in ME2 folder, look up on google if you are interested.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

The color dark and monotone grey isn't a bug. I've played enough GTA4 and other next-gen games to realize this.

 

[Serious_Business]

Heroes VI is announced, turn-based strategy exclusive to PC but there are fewer resources and you can convert cities:

Mass Effect 2 is out, removes most of the RPG stuff and it's pretty much a popamole shooter:


At the risk of sounding a bit , I don't get it. If someone can explain it to me, I'd be grateful.

I don't know about the others, but to me it can be explained that ME2 is, in fact, the best Bioware game since BG2. Think about it - NWN, KoTOR, the asian rpg, ME1 - those are all pretty bad games and rpgs. ME2 just tosses out the bullshit that Bioware never could do very well anyway, and we get a fun ride that is overall pretty satisfying. ME2 is a popamole shit shooter, and it does that well - frustration comes when we realise unaccomplished potential of what could be, and ME2 doesn't have any of that because it does everything it tries to do well. Of course, you can still cry that it labels itself as a "rpg" and so on - but that's merely a label. In practice, ME2 wants to be a fun cheesy shooter that you can't take very seriously - it doesn't pretend to be anything else than a stupid hollywood experience, and there can be good Hollywood movies. Of course you won't get nuance or thought provoking moments, but shit, that's never why you were there, so who cares? A place and a time for everything. Games, especially mainstream games, are entertainment, so it's high time Bioware dropped the "we are the deep writers of the industry" bullshit that will frustrate everyone that is priviledged to have more culture than a 19th century russian serf.

In other words, Bioware just realised they never wrote anything deep and that they never realised their intellectual potential, so now they stop bothering and that is all for the better. I mean, in after BG2 they started having grand ideas about their writing - now you had forced companions, very linear stories, etc. But ME2 feels, to me at least, less serious and ego-stroking somehow. Between ME1 - which really crammed your throat the shitty setting that can't possibly be taken seriously by anyone at every opportunity it got, and ME2 which has more of a "DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS CRAP GOTTA SHOT DA ALIENS AND FUCK THE BITCHES" tone to it, I know what I prefer.

 

[Phelot]

Of course, you can still cry that it labels itself as a "rpg" and so on - but that's merely a label.

But ME2 is a genre setter just like Doom or Diablo which means we can expect a lot of other games to be just like it. Hell, they've apparently already started with DA2.

Of course you won't get nuance or thought provoking moments, but shit, that's never why you were there, so who cares?

But so many claim it to be deep and thought provoking. Shit, there's entire sites devoted to dissecting a story that is essentially about a frat boy in Star Wars.

And again, because of it's success it means that it'll be copied so we have to keep getting this bullshit over and over again until some other developer shits out something that sets the next trend.

It's tiring, it really is. Right now multiple romance options and picking red team over blue team is all the rage so that's what we get over and over again.

Games, especially mainstream games, are entertainment, so it's high time Bioware dropped the "we are the deep writers of the industry" bullshit that will frustrate everyone that is priviledged to have more culture than a 19th century russian serf.

I feel you and even the fabled PST is pretty bad literally compared to even the most common novels out there, but it still did something different and I think that's what I want more. I want games that aren't "safe" and don't fall into genre cliches and "must haves."

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Hell, they've apparently already started with DA2.

Considering it's another Bio game, released a short while after ME2, that was to be expected. And, like with ME2, this could be a good thing.

 

[Phelot]

Hell, they've apparently already started with DA2.

Considering it's another Bio game, released a short while after ME2, that was to be expected. And, like with ME2, this could be a good thing.

True, but still it shows that dumbing down is now a trend that works and that can't be good... unless it creates a void that is filled with actual RPGs, but then... THEN THE CYCLE WOULD CONTINUE ANEW!!!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That was what I was thinking about one page ago, with

Eventually, the streamlining will make these games so distant from RPGs that no one would be able to call them so with a straight face, and we'll be back to the "Action games = sex" era. I wouldn't be so worried.

Eventually we'll get to "press X to save the kingdom and fuck the princess", which no one would be able to consider a rpg, which would lead to deeper games trying to fill the vacuum. Yes, it's

but whatever, it's better for the heart.