A console gamer's view of the Decline

[Alex_Steel]

What a surprise, everyone wants more money, it is never enough. Magazines and their mother, promoting huge productions that promise to satisfy everyone. The result? Lots of bad ports or bad games, with annoying DRM, lots of bugs and almost offensive DLC. In the end, no one is truly satisfied.
Well, arseholes, maximum profit comes at the expense of customer satisfaction.

I wish it bites them on the arse, a lesson for being greedy bastards.

It was a good article.

 

[spekkio]

There is nothing "PC" about this generation of games

• cunt-pasted general mobs of enemies (Infinity Engine), shitty general 9000 identical dungeons / swamps (cRPGs, RTS)
• broken, unplayable, non-tested alpha versions released as final product, bugs that can prevent the player from finishing the game (90% of PC games starting from the 80-ies, including TFTD, Fallout 2 and Bloodlines)
• total lack of any art-direction whatsoever
• shitty controls and camera
• DLC / add-ons instead of full games
• multiplayer via special service (CattleNet, Steam) instead of "local scale" multi (split screen / hot seat / LAN)
• MMO as a "best" model for gaming: microtransactions, selling special l00t for real moniez, ETC.

Fighting games are still around

Yes, but those are a niche now.

Platformers are doing just fine

Platformers died with N64/PSX (PS2 if you have low standards)

world of Goo, is that a platformer

Oh, you're trolling? My bad, then.

I played that Ocarina thing and had fun back in the day. I don't think it has changed that much?

I played Fallout back in the day. I don't think the "franchise" changed that much?

Shooters have always sucked on consoles and they all seem the same

There are no good "shooters" on consoles. Never were, never will be. But last good shooter on PC was, what? Quake 3 / UT?

JRPG's seem to be well

JRPGs died with PS2 / DS. Blobbers and wapanese tactical games are still OK, but those are niche and not JRPGs.

I'm not seeing it

2/10

 

[circ]

 

[sser]

Was this article written by a twelve year old and his jawdropping number of friends? Because it's fucking retarded and anyone who agrees should feel bad. There is nothing "PC" about this generation of games. Seriously, the fuck. Are you guys serious? Honest question. Because you're totally fucking wrong if that's what you think.

Read the article again without bias. It's probably one of the best spot on console gamer articles I ever read (granted, I don't read that much of them).

Back in the day there was a distinct difference between games played on console and on pc. Completely different genres and completely different design philosophies. There were excellent games on consoles and there were excellent games on pcs.

Just because you liked playing games on a pc didn't meant you liked playing games on a console. I think a good comparison a pc games that got ported to a console back in the day. Starflight comes to mind as an example. Excellent port to the Genesis/MD but clearly modified to fit for a console style game. And I'm not talking about the interface here. The whole game got more focused on action and less emphasize on the sim aspect. Another thing would be rpgs; on console jrpgs, on pc wrpgs.

I remember I often played console games with friends out of courtesy and not because I enjoyed them that much but I could play hours with no end on a pc game. And I was an Amiga gamer which had a lot of similarities to consoles and was able to reproduce console games style properly if wanted. The bottom line is I never wanted a console because they had widely different games, genres and design philosophies.

I have no problem when someone doesn't like pc games and wants more oldschool console games again. What we have now is the migration of pc gamedesigners to consoles (greener pastures I guess) who got a foot in the door with some new design concepts for a console (pc gaming style). But now they have basically destroyed the old console style games and some console players are feeling as strongly about this as we do about the consolization of pc games. He comes basically to the same conclusion like we do: pc games should be designed for pc and console games should be designed for consoles.

What the fuck are you talking about.

Yes, I agree, the differences between PC gaming and console gaming have largely disappeared -- but not in the favor of PC design.

Console-styled games are not dead at all and I really cannot believe people think that. Nintendo pumps them out endlessly and they are all quite popular -- not an inkling of PC-design in any of those.

The PS3's Uncharted series is more or less the Spyro/Tomb Raider from PS1. Nothing PC about them at all. The platform has such stunning flight sims as Ace Combat, where you can shoot MiGs out of the sky with F-117's -- wait a sec, is that any different than all those shoot 'em up flight games on the SNES? Answer: no.

Xbox 360 has Gears of War and Halo. GoW-mechanics were not PC-centric at all. Cover-shooting is a console designed mechanic developed largely out of either Kill.Switch from last gen or popularized by the Metal Gear Solid games. Note that cover-shooting is a fucking plague upon gaming and its very core is on the consoles. If PC design had come to consoles why is Thief3 a fucking third-person game with corner-hugging mechanics? Fucking Christ. Most games today use the limited inventories and regenerating health gimmick. Source? Halo.

Compare PC-shooters in the 1990s to console shooters in the 1990s. That is, see what Quake and Half-Life look like compared to GoldenEye and Perfect Dark. Now compare today's shooters . Ain't a fucking difference, and they sure as shit did not keep the Quake-gameplay unless you're blind as a bat. Consoles won that war handily and it certainly carries with it the biggest prizes.

Good fucking God there are so many examples to draw on from interfaces to whole genres. Look at the design philosophies of pretty much any modern game and you will find mechanics geared for the console player's mind. PC designers went to consoles. Damn straight. And look what became of Molyneux, Meier, etc. Hell, look what "PC designs" Crytek brought to the consoles with Crysis 2.

Oh...

 

[Gord]

Could it be that all the while we have been fighting, the real monster was us?

He raises some interesting points though. So after all it's maybe more about different generations of gamers than different ecosystems.

Yes, I agree, the differences between PC gaming and console gaming have largely disappeared -- but not in the favor of PC design.

That's not what he's saying. His idea is more that the mutual influences have formed an unholy conglomeration of dumbed-down and declined AAA shit gameplay.
Console games have lost what made them great (to him) and pc gamers are complaining just the same that consoles have declined their games as well. Multiplatform has fucked up both.

 

[Infinitron]

sser

On the other hand, let's look at the archetypal shooter of our time - Call of Duty. Started as a PC-exclusive franchise.
Archetypal RPG of our time? Elder Scrolls. Started as a PC-exclusive franchise.

So, who fucked who? It's a matter of perspective.

 

[spekkio]

sser

You're right about certain mechanics like cover system and regenerative health originating from switching from PC to consoles. But:
1) It was mainly ex-PC devs and publishers who did this "switching", not console ones. Bungie, Beth, Bioware, EA, Activision, etc. wanted bigger slice of pie and decided to adapt PC gaming to Xbawxs formula. Notice that wapanese devs like Crapcom (Resident Evil, Lost Planet) or EnixSquare started releasing cover-based 3d shootars only recently.
2) Those mechanics were applied to new games regardless of their platform. IMO gameplay in recent CoDs for PC is not slow and shit because devs ported this game from evil console (imprecise pad) to MAJESTIC PC (ZOMG precise mouse), but because they know their retarded audience (both on consoles and PC) and the gameplay this audience loves.

Check 10/10 scores given by elite PC gamers to such fine titles like Bioshock, Half-life 2 (PC ONLY!!!111!) or Fallout 3. Everybody who played System Shock 2, Half-life 1 or Fallout 1-2 should know how shitty those new games are after 15 minutes of playing them...

tl;dr

Fucking 200x newfags!

 

[sser]

sser

On the other hand, let's look at the archetypal shooter of our time - Call of Duty. Started as a PC-exclusive franchise.
Archetypal RPG of our time? Elder Scrolls. Started as a PC-exclusive franchise.

So, who fucked who? It's a matter of perspective.

What is your point? It is irrelevant where a franchise began after the consoles get their hands on them.

In what way has PC gaming "fucked up" consoles? Can someone actually name something? I read list by spekkio... Let's see: distribution services. Oh wow, great. That's why I play games, great gameplay from how they're distributed. No art direction? Nonsensical point. DLC? Um, what? Do I really need to point out where DLC have spawned from and had their greatest impact? Multiplayer via a special service... uhh, what? Xbox Live dramatically shifted how games are played online. Steam was an irrelevant, buggy platform for a long time, people forget that now though. Lack of LAN has affected all platforms with technology changes, not game design. Cut and paste enemies/levels have existed on all platforms forever. Dumb. MMO style playing? Where is that on consoles? That is fucking up consoles, really? Where? Because that seems PC-centric to me. Shitty controls and camera? Fuck you. Keyboard and mouse beat the shit out of gamepads everyday unless you're playing a platformer. I guess someone likes giant cycling wheels for interfaces, then?

 

[Infinitron]

Do I really need to point out where DLC have spawned from and had their greatest impact?

Everything in gaming that has to do with network connectivity (including DLC, which, you know, has to be downloaded) has its origins on the PC. Console gamers have had to be dragged into the gaming-as-a-service online thing - simply because consoles by default are not physically connected to the Internet, while almost all PCs are.

 

[sser]

Do I really need to point out where DLC have spawned from and had their greatest impact?

Everything in gaming that has to do with network connectivity (including DLC, which, you know, has to be downloaded) has its origins on the PC. Console gamers have had to be dragged into the gaming-as-a-service online thing - simply because consoles by default are not physically connected to the Internet, while almost all PCs are.

Yes, but what does that have to do with game design? And what was one of the first things consoles did with their new found toys? Started pumping out DLC. So now today Paradox releases little flags for $.99. Wait, who is influencing who here again?

 

[Infinitron]

Do I really need to point out where DLC have spawned from and had their greatest impact?

Everything in gaming that has to do with network connectivity (including DLC, which, you know, has to be downloaded) has its origins on the PC. Console gamers have had to be dragged into the gaming-as-a-service online thing - simply because consoles by default are not physically connected to the Internet, while almost all PCs are.

Yes, but what does that have to do with game design? And what was one of the first things consoles did with their new found toys? Started pumping out DLC. So now today Paradox releases little flags for $.99. Wait, who is influencing who here again?

DLC can be considered an evolution of the concept of the expansion pack or the mod, which are definitely PC-centric.

 

[sser]

Do I really need to point out where DLC have spawned from and had their greatest impact?

Everything in gaming that has to do with network connectivity (including DLC, which, you know, has to be downloaded) has its origins on the PC. Console gamers have had to be dragged into the gaming-as-a-service online thing - simply because consoles by default are not physically connected to the Internet, while almost all PCs are.

Yes, but what does that have to do with game design? And what was one of the first things consoles did with their new found toys? Started pumping out DLC. So now today Paradox releases little flags for $.99. Wait, who is influencing who here again?

DLC can be considered an evolution of the concept of the expansion pack or the mod, which are definitely PC-centric.

I think you mean devolution of the concept. I had no problem paying $20-30 for expansion packs back in the day because they were usually pretty awesome. Now I spend $60 for a game with content locked on the disc, which I spend $15 to unlock, and then $15 more for "Day 1 Release" ware, and then $15 more for an hour long campaign and a cool new map, and then...

 

[spekkio]

Xbox Live dramatically shifted how games are played online

Yes. Because PC devs wanted to switch to sth I called "MMO model" - closed system based on "pay to play" formula.

Keyboard and mouse beat the shit out of gamepads everyday unless you're playing a platformer

And fighting game. And 3d action game. And pretty much everything else except genres that need precise control and clicking shit in small area on screen (RTS, 3d shooter, RPG).

DLC / expansion packs

And how that's consoles' fault - PC drones showed devs that they want to pay for a "Flaming sword of Awesome +10" or "Silver armor of golden shower" in WoW so devs implemented same formula for all content that they can cut off the "base product" and sell separately.

You may be more or less right about other points, so I'm skipping them, cuz' that's what tru codexer does.

 

[Outlander]

That's what you get when you mix races: shit.

 

[Infinitron]

And how that's consoles' fault - PC drones showed devs that they want to pay for a "Flaming sword of Awesome +10" or "Silver armor of golden shower" in WoW so devs implemented same formula for all content that they can cut off the "base product" and sell separately.

And of course it goes much farther back than WoW. Ultima Online? Maybe even MUDs?

 

[sser]

I'll just say this before I go to sleep.

Console style games are alive and well. Ain't nothing missing in them and I can't possibly understand anyone who thinks otherwise. Are there some PC influences in consoles? Sure, quite naturally. Have they ruined anything? No. Which is why the author of this piece of poorly written trash could not name any actual examples. Just waves of his hand in protest of evils that do not exist, and talking about how his friends don't enjoy gaming anymore as if it has any relevance whatsoever. Profound arguments, surely. So if you think PC games have ruined consoles please know that you are wrong, okay?

PC gaming, though, is a burnt out husk of its former self that largely sustains itself on the scraps of what console blockbuster is up next. I think this very forum is a testament to that. People cling to KotC and instantly drop cash on Grimrock because it ain't console crap. You have to scratch and crawl about a veritable sea of shit to get to anything good, anything that free from the bonds of consoles. And sometimes, sadly, you will never find anything. It's pretty hard to find games that do not suffer from the constraints of consoles. Can the same be said for consoles? No. I can walk into any store and pick up a platformer no different than what I played on SNES or PS1 or whatever else. I can still find sports games out the wazoo. All the cover-shooting FPSs to fulfill a lifetime. Interfaces suited for gamepads as far as the eye can see. Nintendo still fucking exists. Can you find a Quake-esque shooter on the consoles? Can you find a Grimrock or KotC on the consoles? And how many great PC developers still actually exist today? It takes me all of two seconds to find every console mechanic available since Mario jumped down a pipe in today's console games -- nothing has changed. But if I want to play some regular PC gaming today I go to GoG or start snooping around my attic for dust laden jewel cases.

 

[circ]

And how that's consoles' fault - PC drones showed devs that they want to pay for a "Flaming sword of Awesome +10" or "Silver armor of golden shower" in WoW so devs implemented same formula for all content that they can cut off the "base product" and sell separately.

And of course it goes much farther back than WoW. Ultima Online? Maybe even MUDs?

Yeah. P2P MUDs predate MMOs by about 10 years. Think pay X to get weapon of AWESOME FUCK EVERYTHING UP started with MMOs? Nope. P2P MUDs had that back in '95.

 

[Infinitron]

Console style games are alive and well. Ain't nothing missing in them and I can't possibly understand anyone who thinks otherwise. Are there some PC influences in consoles? Sure, quite naturally. Have they ruined anything? No.

It's true that console-style games have been harmed less, if only because of the huge built-in audience the traditional console genres still have back in Japan.
But even that is a tragedy.

 

[Whisper]

Console games: less brains involved, more Buttons that do something Awesum.

 

[spekkio]

sser, I think you have this "Jews did it!" thing going on, only with consoles instead of Jews.

You do realise that people make and publish games, not hardware platforms?

People cling to KotC and instantly drop cash on Grimrock because it ain't console crap

No, it's because they're fucking hipsters. They will call Grimrock shit after finishing it 7 times...

I can walk into any store and pick up a platformer no different than what I played on SNES or PS1 or whatever else

Only it's 100 times worse from gameplay POV.

I can still find sports games out the wazoo

Yeah. Madden 2212 and Fifa 56.

Nintendo still fucking exists

Shame indeed. But them fucking BOTH Sony and M$ in the ass with Wii was 10/10 move, I must give them that. And a proof that curent games are not ment for gamers, but for ADHD kids and bored milfs.

Can you find a Quake-esque shooter on the consoles?

Can you find Garou / Virtua Fighter fighting game on PC? You don't know why? Read my post above...

Can you find a Grimrock or KotC on the consoles?

If we take NDS into consideration, it could be possible...

And how many great PC developers still actually exist today?

And how many great console developers still actually exist today?
There's no market for real games ATM, sorry to inform you.

It takes me all of two seconds to find every console mechanic available since Mario jumped down a pipe in today's console games

Like for example punishing difficulty? No saves? Precise controls? Game tested to death that you can play 12h non stop without any bugs?

tl;dr

BAAAWWW, consoles killed mah PC gaming!!!

 

[DragoFireheart]

Riddle me this mother fuckers:

If the decline is the fault of gaming companies, how is it they are still in business?

 

[spekkio]

Define the Decline, Drog-kun.



For me The Decline = decline in quality of games.
But since the customers are drones, this Decline does not lead to decline in sales.

Apple's hardware is shit. How come they're still in business and Nokia is in trouble?
Well, customers want to buy Apple's shit and think that Nokia's shit is shit.

 

[Marsal]

Apple's hardware is shit. How come they're still in business and Nokia is in trouble?

I don't like Apple as a company, but this is not true. Almost all of their hardware is top notch, if a bit overpriced.

Nokia is in trouble, because their software was/is shit. They'll most likely be acquired by Microsoft.

 

[spekkio]

BRO, I WAS BEING FIGURTIVE HERE.



My point was that the most important thing for a company is a large enough group of customers who want to buy its products. The quality of this product is not that important (Bobby Kotick says hello).

Also: In before people confirming that Apple's hardware is actually shit .

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Console games: less brains involved, more Buttons that do something Awesum.

*looks at keyboard*

*looks at gamepad*