Development Info Wasteland 2 Crowdsourcing Experiment

[Tzaero]

That think tank was one of them.

 

[Davaris]

Well, can you elaborate what concretely?

Wall of text time.

I can only speak for myself, but not using an existing RPG engine still concerns me. Being a programmer, I know how programming problems can hold projects up for a long time, so I would prefer that possibility did not exist at all.

I am also concerned at how close he is with Unity. Way to close for comfort. I am thinking he entered into this relationship, for the long term benefit of his company, rather than for the good of this particular project. Of course I am biased against Unity, because I tried the engine several years ago and it did not suit me...

The decision to ask the public to make art for the game, because he read a book about a man that found a billion dollars worth of gold on his property. Apparently the man placed an add in a newspaper promising a big reward, if anyone in the world found his gold. I think it was eccentric to make a decision affecting the project, based on a trendy book, but I also know successful entrepreneurs like to take risks, so it goes with the territory.

I am also of the strong opinion, professionals should be left alone to make the games, because professionals are supposed to be trained to do it and they are supposed to be the best at what they do. I don't think you can get truly excellent work by committee. That is just my opinion and time will tell on this game.

So January is make or break. I want to see something that looks good and I want to see some kind of functionality. I want him to do well, because I donated $250 to this project and if the game does not turn out well, I will feel I have egg on my face.

So I suspect a lot of the niggling comes from those, that put in more than the minimum. If I had donated just $15 or $20, I wouldn't care at all. Brian could do anything he liked and it would be all good. So this is a lesson learned for me and I made a new rule for myself after it: No working code, no donation. I did not donate to Obsidian, because of this rule.

 

[Infinitron]

Or you could just donate the 15 or 20 dollars which you just said you wouldn't care about, instead of being so black and white about it.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

That think tank was one of them.

Yeah boy I know, right? Whole fuckin' game went to shit at that point. Crazy how the world works.

 

[General Maxson]

That think tank was one of them.

Yeah boy I know, right? Whole fuckin' game went to shit at that point. Crazy how the world works.

Hey, what's that? Think tank I mean...

 

[Infinitron]

That think tank was one of them.

Yeah boy I know, right? Whole fuckin' game went to shit at that point. Crazy how the world works.

Hey, what's that? Think tank I mean...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank I think he's referring to the science consultants.

 

[General Maxson]

That think tank was one of them.

Yeah boy I know, right? Whole fuckin' game went to shit at that point. Crazy how the world works.

Hey, what's that? Think tank I mean...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank I think he's referring to the science consultants.

Yeah, that surely destroyed and hope for game being good.

I agree, maybe it wasn't necessary etc. Maybe money could have been better spent etc. But the game is doomed because of it?

What worries me personally, is that it seems to me that Fargo's doing all he can to speed the production of a game as fast as possible. Like hiring those scientists so the devs don't have to google, like this crowdfunding experiment, Unity so game can be completed faster because of bought assets. A game IMO opinions, especially a niche one like turn based crpg, should be a product of long labor and love. I'm not saying it won't be, but somehow seems to me they just want to produce it on schedule and everything is put towards that goal. I mean better that than vaporware, but still, it worries me a bit, creativity, freedom, time etc.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

STOP FUCKING QUOTING ME YOU IDIOTS.

 

[Brother None]

Davaris it sounds more like you just take issue with the crowdsourcing model and many of the decisions and risks that come with it. I wouldn't pinpoint most of that down to Wasteland 2, if anything Wasteland 2 is one of the better-managed, more likely to actually see release projects that we've seen pass by on Kickstarter.

This game isn't being designed by committee though. Not as I understand the term.

And everyone seems to love Unity as an option for this scale of game.

The big showcase will be interesting.

I agree, maybe it wasn't necessary etc. Maybe money could have been better spent etc. But the game is doomed because of it?

Yeah. Man. All that money they poured into it. What a waste. M:

 

[almondblight]

Yeah, that surely destroyed and hope for game being good.

I agree, maybe it wasn't necessary etc. Maybe money could have been better spent etc. But the game is doomed because of it?

Well, no one actually thinks that. If you look back at the thread the argument was between people saying that there wasn't much of a point in hiring scientific consultants, and others saying saying that it could make the game better. The fact that "I don't think there's much use in hiring scientific consultants" keeps getting turned into "I think this game will suck because of scientific consultants" by Fargo fanboys highlights the emotion some people have put into this game.

Like hiring those scientists so the devs don't have to google, like this crowdfunding experiment, Unity so game can be completed faster because of bought assets.

I tend to see the first two as mostly marketing gimmicks. As has been pointed out, they're already using Unity store assets. That's the part that's worrying, that the visual style for the game might looked stitched together and incoherent. But I don't think fan submissions changes that much one way or another.

 

[EG]

This game isn't being designed by committee though. Not as I understand the term.

It's designed by gimmick.

 

[Moribund]

I can only speak for myself, but not using an existing RPG engine still concerns me.

Then we'd get Skyrim.

Being a programmer, I know how programming problems can hold projects up for a long time, so I would prefer that possibility did not exist at all.

Three million bucks should be enough to hire an army of programmers.

I am also concerned at how close he is with Unity. Way to close for comfort. I am thinking he entered into this relationship, for the long term benefit of his company, rather than for the good of this particular project. Of course I am biased against Unity, because I tried the engine several years ago and it did not suit me...

That kind of long term thinking and discipline is why he is a millionaire who made a game empire and we are making angry internet posts. If you have a good business relationship with someone and they are reasonable they will go to great lengths to service you. I am sure that's the case here, and his experience with them will no doubt be far different than yours for that reason. He knows the masonic handshake and can introduce them to the mayor's daughter and all that.

The decision to ask the public to make art for the game, because he read a book about a man that found a billion dollars worth of gold on his property. Apparently the man placed an add in a newspaper promising a big reward, if anyone in the world found his gold. I think it was eccentric to make a decision affecting the project, based on a trendy book, but I also know successful entrepreneurs like to take risks, so it goes with the territory.

Brilliant publicity stunt. Again, this is why he's got 3 million bucks and we don't.

I am also of the strong opinion, professionals should be left alone to make the games, because professionals are supposed to be trained to do it and they are supposed to be the best at what they do. I don't think you can get truly excellent work by committee. That is just my opinion and time will tell on this game.

How is it made by committy? Obviously he is not too hands on or how is he getting the time to do 6 publicity stunts a week?

Also, there's more to it than training or experience, there's talent. Somehow he managed to recruit just the right talent over and over in the past, something that doesn't seem to happen in other studios that often. That's a talent in itself, and an invaluable one for something as esoteric as games that not just anyone can do.

He was ultimately in charge of fallout and like a million other games. He obviously knows just how to manage a project properly, and doesn't need our advice. If you want to see something that seems diffuse and like it's made by commity look at PE. They even keep saying "we want to be sure everyone is comfortable with every aspect of the story."! How much more by committy can you get? No wonder Obsidian games are so bland.

WL 2 had a strong statement and clear direction from the start and aside from a few really confused idiots who played fallout 3 and wanted more I don't think anyone would say otherwise. I do expect some idiots to say stuff like "but there's no romances and no NPC dialog so it's not an RPG!" or that it has too much combat, but that's all the same stupid stuff everyone says in every thread here.

So January is make or break. I want to see something that looks good and I want to see some kind of functionality.

This is the big leagues, man, and you act like this is some high school kid who lucked into millions of dollars of funding. No one has made any demands like this of the DF guys, and they got more money, for less reason, without any description of what they would do a all. Give us money for a game! That's it, all they said.

I want him to do well, because I donated $250 to this project and if the game does not turn out well, I will feel I have egg on my face.

So I suspect a lot of the niggling comes from those, that put in more than the minimum. If I had donated just $15 or $20, I wouldn't care at all. Brian could do anything he liked and it would be all good. So this is a lesson learned for me and I made a new rule for myself after it: No working code, no donation. I did not donate to Obsidian, because of this rule.

Well, I didn't have a chance to donate or I would have, but it's clear people are becoming a lot more demanding towards kickstarter funding. I don't want just anything funded but it would take a whole lot of classic RPGs to bring us into a glut situation.

 

[Brother None]

So from the WIP forums on inXile, what you guys think of these...

 

[RedScum]

I like it, especially the turret.

 

[EG]

I think there is win.

 

[General Maxson]

I think it looks good.

 

[Gakkone]

Looks pretty good.

 

[Temaperacl]

The dish looks a bit too broken down if it is intended as the RangerHQ dish - I could see it at an outpost, but I would expect it (Primarily the base) to be better maintained at the HQ (That is, it looks not only patchwork and repaired, but also not well maintained.)

[Edit: Just looked at the we demo (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7354164/Wasteland2/Turntables/Satellite/satellite.html) - the version without the orange looks good as far as the dish goes. Still think the base looks poorly maintained, though.]

 

[Brother None]

The dish looks a bit too broken down if it is intended as the RangerHQ dish - I could see it at an outpost, but I would expect it (Primarily the base) to be better maintained at the HQ (That is, it looks not only patchwork and repaired, but also not well maintained.)

That's how it's described in the concept art

PS: Unity demo link. Always cool

 

[skuphundaku]

I really dig the satellite antenna.

 

[Temaperacl]

The dish looks a bit too broken down if it is intended as the RangerHQ dish - I could see it at an outpost, but I would expect it (Primarily the base) to be better maintained at the HQ (That is, it looks not only patchwork and repaired, but also not well maintained.)

That's how it's described in the concept art

[...]

The concept art describes it as having makeshift alterations and repairs over the years. I think it does that well enough. The problem I have is that it also (especially the version with the orange that makes it look somewhat rusty) looks like it also isn't being maintained well. What I am expecting is that it is being maintained, but has had to be patched as things broke - the problem is that the base hasn't been patched back up (Which could mean it is a new problem, but there is nothing that indicates that is the case.). The other issue was the orange that made it look like the dish wasn't being cleaned on any kind of basis (Although the color could be material specific given that whole sections of it were orange. the impression I got was lack of upkeep, though)

 

[Moribund]

Darkening up that turret, like I said, made it 10 times better. Still don't like that propane tank thing, though.

 

[Temaperacl]

I'm not seeing any patchwork or makeshift repairs in the model that isn't in the concept art. What specifically are you referring to?

My problem is where the repairs aren't - mainly the base:

 

[tindrli]

I wonder, why is this display screen pointing in the same direction as a gun?? shouldn't it be in opposite?

 

[Davaris]

I wonder, why is this display screen pointing in the same direction as a gun?? shouldn't it be in opposite?

Could it be some kind of motion detector?

As for the texture, it makes a world of difference. That artist is good, who ever he is.