Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[ciox]

The wiki handles that pretty well http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Assault_Rifles
I think some info is slightly outdated on some pages, like you need to look at the pages for the scopes to see how they actually behave when attached to different weapons (effects vary), the weapon pages themselves are outdated in that regard, but 99% of the info should be accurate.

 

[epeli]

Yea, I think that information should be on the wiki. Blueprint pages list all compatible frames/parts at a glance, individual weapon pages show the numerical differences between calibers and enhancements at a glance and weapon type pages (like the one ciox linked) provide an overview of the models of that weapon subtype. Let me know if something's outdated and I'll fix it.

The specifics on how damage is determined are absent because that stuff is too much work to datamine (damage spread modifiers all over the place), especially for guns. Quality of frame determines damage and seven point two billion things may or may not determine the damage spread or add a modifer to it. In a nutshell, higher quality frame and bigger caliber = moar dmg.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Ah, my bad. I use that wiki, but somehow missed the frame descriptions. As for calibers, i guess it's mostly bigger damage/more action points ratio.
One thing i find a bit silly though is that as an AR guy i see smgs and pistols are completely useless because of high DEX requirement to make them have advantage in certain situations. I can understand this from the

point of view, but it's a bit odd when best sidearm to your AR is another AR with different stats or a sniper rifle.

 

[Janise]

underrail

 

[Janise]

The ARs crafting is easy. There is really only one build.
Biggest frame, biggest caliber, +2 bullets per burst, +30% dmg to special attacks

 

[ciox]

Ah, my bad. I use that wiki, but somehow missed the frame descriptions. As for calibers, i guess it's mostly bigger damage/more action points ratio.
One thing i find a bit silly though is that as an AR guy i see smgs and pistols are completely useless because of high DEX requirement to make them have advantage in certain situations. I can understand this from the

point of view, but it's a bit odd when best sidearm to your AR is another AR with different stats or a sniper rifle.

SMGs are the go to option for bursting though, because of Spec Ops which is a bigger deal than any of the dex bonuses, with rifles you need to go to extreme lengths to be able to get 2 bursts per turn*, with SMGs you can easily squeeze a 7-round burst in a turn even if your SMG is a sidearm to use after you've performed multiple crossbow/psi/grenade attacks.
Pistols' main advantage is the large initiative bonus from Gunslinger imo, a decent sidearm quality, sure you can get heavy damage sometimes with a .44 hammerer, but you can do that with most weapon types and often more reliably (at longer range, with less wide damage range)

* there's even an exception coded into the game iirc, to prevent certain powerful high-caliber rifles from being crafted with low enough ap cost to burst twice per round, that really should be dealt with properly by having an expensive "elite rapid reloader" that is required to to enhance the ap cost of such rifles normally and allow 2 bursts

 

[Janise]

SMGs are the go to option for bursting though, because of Spec Ops

No way.
Maaaybe before you get Commando. And even then, there are rifles which Burst twice per round and have higher dmg output and significantly higher chance to hit.
When you start stacking ConcentratedFire, FullAuto and Commando - its all over for SMGs.
The only time they are useful is when you dont have rifles yet...

with SMGs you can easily squeeze a 7-round burst in a turn even if your SMG is a sidearm to use after you've performed multiple crossbow/psi/grenade attacks.

The question is why would you... SMG burst is 30 AP. Crossbows Psi and Grenades are not Guns. Waste of Skillpoints.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yeah, i get that ARs kinda suck compared to SMGs overall. They have the same advantages, but ARs are just gimped in some that SMGs are not. Weird choice. Am too far with my char to turn back though.

The ARs crafting is easy. There is really only one build.
Biggest frame, biggest caliber, +2 bullets per burst, +30% dmg to special attacks

Not necessarily. That's why i sometimes keep two different ARs. One you describe is an absolute overkill for lowly enemies that could be better dealt with less powerful, but more frugal on APs and ammo. Whether adding raw damage or better chance at criticals is also an open question unless you have done some precise math.

 

[Janise]

Its pretty simple math. If your crit chance is 10% and you do double damage on it, you get.

Base
0.9 * 1dmg + 0.1 * 2dmg = 1.1 dmg

With Crit Adapter +7%
0.8 * 1dmg + 0.2 * 2dmg = 1.2 dmg

With Special Dmg Adapter +20%
(0.9 * 1dmg + 0.1 * 2dmg) * 1.2 = 1.32 dmg

Thats extremely conservative. Cause the Crit chance adapter goes to +7% I think, while special dmg goes to +30%

 

[Gnidrologist]

I have seeker goggles that modify crical chance by 13% and that's probably not the ceiling and some frame/barrel/scope combos make more than mere 7% modifier. Also sometimes it's better to have that huge critical than better spread of damage overall. It's more luck based though, of course.

 

[Janise]

I have seeker goggles that modify crical chance by 13%

. Goggles are even worse! Goggles have +50% special attack damage. And that might be multiplicative.

You've made me load up a save...
Gogles give +30% special dmg.
Rifle adapter gives +50% special dmg. Which completely devastates the Crit Bonus adapter.

Doesnt change anything. Rifles >>> SMGs

 

[Gnidrologist]

What is ''rifle adapter'', especially something that gives 50% anything? Never saw anything like that in my game.

 

[Janise]

Shit quality frame. Just bought it for demo. But the smart module is around 110 q

You can go with the blue thingie for +7% crit chance bonus but as said before, its inferior to 2 extra bullits!

 

[Janise]

And ConcentratedFire is another 40% dmg bonus.

Example of vanilla Burst for each bullet == 10 dmg:
10 10 10 10 10 = 50
10 11 12 13 14 = 60 with ConcentFire and 100% chance to hit and all hits landing.
Its a solid 20% dmg bonus.

Now stack bullets to profit from ConcentFire more

+2 bullets mod, +2 bullets FullAuto
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 = 126
compared to 90 without ConcentratedFire, its 36/90 = 40%

Considering that SMG suffer from Damage Threshold most, they are shiiiieeet compared to Riflebrahs

You have to dual wield those rifles cause they run out of ammo in two bursts... But hey, you kill 4 heavies in 2 turns with Commando, without stims.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Ah ok, i somehow neglected the green text with the concrete stats of smart module as i've taken into habit to ignore ALL green text in those tooltips as it's mostly garbage information i don't need (like how many action points i need to reload/unload, which is always the same for all weapons lol). Thanks for pointing that out. Funny how i played the game all this time and missed those numbers. I do however have concentrated fire, which is no brianer, and burst extending thingie is also among my favorites. Just went to lvl 14 and got commando. That thing is sure sweet.

edit: one more thing.
I was kinda expecting that stuff i make will gradually improve stats wise as i become better mechanic/tailor, but all it seems to do is let me use better quality components, which means they last longer before needing repair. In electronics it seems to be important, because better components makes better shields, cloaks and stuff, but not so much with guns and armor. Should've invested more in chemistry and biology by now.

 

[Janise]

Dunno. Chem and Bio seem to me to be absolute dump stats for a Commando guy.

Rifle frame Q improves damage mostdef. Dont know how much.

Tailoring pushes Stealth points significantly enough. As well as Evasion etc in Tabi Boots.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yeah, just checked and basically it increases damage for frames, but for increase jump in quality needs to be quite noticeable. Also better stealth for black cloth and so on.
Chem is good for advanced grenades mostly and bio i dunno, haven't tried any advanced stims, but basic one's are quite handy sometimes so i guess it would be the same as with nades - more efficient ones you can only craft.

One other thing that game doesn't make obvious for me is against what critters does jhp ammo works best. Are ALL beasts vulnerable to it or just some? Most people wear some kind of basic armor so i guess it's no good against humanoids at all. Never liked this guesswork of what works best against whom in games unless it's made painfully obvious.

 

[Tygrende]

Yeah, just checked and basically it increases damage for frames, but for increase jump in quality needs to be quite noticeable. Also better stealth for black cloth and so on.
One other thing that game doesn't make obvious for me is against what critters does jhp ammo works best. Are ALL beasts vulnerable to it or just some? Most people wear some kind of basic armor so i guess it's no good against humanoids at all. Never liked this guesswork of what works best against whom in games unless it's made painfully obvious.

I made an account just to answer this question since I'm figuring it out myself right now.

JHP ammo is superior to standard ammo if the enemy has 36% or less DR.
JHP ammo is superior to W2C ammo if the enemy has 22% or less DR.

As for DT it all depends on how high your damage per shot is in comparsion to DT. DR will be used most of the time anyways, the only notable exception I can think off are 5mm pistols/SMGs vs. enemies wearing tactical vests.

Obviously JHP shines against enemies with no DR/DT whatsoever, it's free 40% bonus damage in that case. Enemies with no DR/DT include:

cave hoppers
rathounds
rathounds alpha
pigs
warthogs
dogs
mutated dogs
muties
mutants (including 2-headed mutants)
somethingsomething scanners

JHP ammo can be a real game changer in Depot A, makes short work of mutated dogs, muties and mutants.

Other creatures JHP ammo is generally effective against include:

crawlers (not the black one though, that one is tougher)
coil spiders
spawns
siphoners
NPCs in leather armors (W2C is going to be almost equal and less risky though)

 

[Janise]

do u know math?...
just load a save, shoot a guy five times and compare...

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yeah i know i know, but my sperg-fu and general enthusiasm is too low to spend time reloading saves before every enemy and checking what ammo works best. I'm slow player as is for that kind of shit. Easier to bug someone on the forum.
Thanks, Tygrende. You that guy from official Underrail forum?

 

[Tygrende]

Yeah. Not much discussion on the official forum right now, might as well post something here.

 

[Janise]

JHP ammo is superior to standard ammo if the enemy has 36% or less DR.

Surprisingly high.

 

[Tygrende]

Math doesn't lie.

Standard ammo, hit for 100 damage:
100*0.36=36
100-36=64 damage dealt

JHP ammo, hit for 100 damage:
100*0.36*1.5=54
100-54=46
46*1.4=64.4 damage dealt

Damage dealt is always rounded up (while damage resisted is always truncated) so that 64.4 would become 65 damage.

Little point in using normal ammo once you get a steady supply of W2C. Now that they can be crafted investing 20 points in chemistry is a pretty good deal. Keep in mind JHP works only against organic targets, too.

 

[Black Angel]

You guys talking about what's the best crafted Assault Rifles, have you guys checked out Eyestabber's guide?

 

[ciox]

You guys talking about what's the best crafted Assault Rifles, have you guys checked out Eyestabber's guide?

You mean this one? http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-incline-awakens.105387/page-101#post-4305626

I was hoping it would go more into detail on the Chimera Frame high crit-chance route, since that's what I already started working on a few days ago, a character who has the Recklessness feat, just enough Biology to craft Focus Stims, and uses a High-Resolution Digital Scope on the rifle along with the obligatory Smart Module, so you get a 34% chance to do 230% damage for each bullet in a 7 round burst, and that's without Seeker Goggles which can take you close to 50%.

The feeling I get from the Chimera is that like its name suggests you can use it for both sniping and bursting with its 130% crit damage bonus, so long as you take care to also transfer that large crit damage bonus to your bursts by getting a high crit chance, this could free up your other weapon slot for something more exotic than the usual sniper rifle or SMG, but I couldn't tell you what that should be.