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ToEE or AoD or UR

Which is most worth playing?

  • The Temple of Elemental Evil

    Votes: 28 17.6%
  • The Age of Decadence

    Votes: 52 32.7%
  • Underrail

    Votes: 53 33.3%
  • kingcomrade

    Votes: 26 16.4%

  • Total voters
    159

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,555
Location
Poland
So, criticism is 'I can't press F9 in combat, instead I have to press ESC and click on load game, this is soooo hard!' and a minor issue when autopaying in one city in the game. 0/10 game sucks.
(...)
So, you can't read with comprehension. My criticism are (in no particular order):

1) You can't quickload a game during combat. No such problem with AoD.

2) If you want to sell your stuff you have to go from one vendor to another because one trader will buy only very specific things and nothing else. Which makes sense in real life but in a game it's annoying (and to be honest in a post-apocalyptic world I doubt any trader would pass on a chance to buy something he doesn't need at the moment but for a fraction of it's real value). AoD wins again.

3) Running is so slow in here and it's one of the main reasons I don't want to replay the game. Playing Underrail lets you realize how great "teleporting" is in AoD. First location (SGS) is very annoying, especially cave tunnel exit which is slow like a retard (there has been slight improvement but it's still very slow). Half of my time in the game is walking at a turtle pace like in shitty Bethesda walking simulators.

4) There are some idiotic choices, like you can't open your room from the inside unless you have a keycard (or lockpicks). There are also often locked empty containers/lockers and in general three is shit in containers like in Wasteland 2 just for lulz.

5) There aren't that many ways to accomplish missions. AoD gives much more freedom to the player and always gives you more than 2 options. Here there are usually 2 options only, where the second one is way more difficult than the first (e.g. retrieving Elwood's key).

6) It has too monotonous locations. Corridors, corridors and some more corridors. That is the main reason it's not as replayable as AoD.

7) Your options when doing quests are very limited and quests themselves are kill/fetch quests only

8) The viable builds are also limited, any sub-optimal build puts you in a very difficult position and forces you to use grenades and craft them. Intelligence is bascially a dump stat. Some unique feats and some bonus in dialogues aren't rewarding enough (and social skills are dump skills, even more so than etiquette in AoD).

9) Bartering is shitty (you can't write the amount of credits you want to pay, you can only use the slider and the retarded game prefers stygian currency even on SGS)

10) It's inconvenient to open lockers behind walls (you have to use tab, otherwise you won't be able to click on it)

11) Path is often blocked by an enemy and you have to wait

12) Font is too small/unreadable on some monitors (and this is quite common complaint judging by the amount of posts/threads about it on Steam)

13) You can't shoot at mines, they go off at the slightest movement near them but you can't shoot at them, lol

14) You can't pickpocket certain characters if they're standing in cramped space (e.g. Kareem)

15) Pathfinding sucks
etc. etc.

As for variety of builds, you have only 4 pure combat skills (where throwing is usually an auxiliary skill) + 3 psi abilities and you build your character around it. In AoD you have 8 pure combat skills and each one makes your run different (playing as a spearman and playing as an axeman is quite different, it requires using different tactics and you get unique attack types, the same goes for a bowman/crossbowman and a throwing master). UR has also shield emitters but AoD has CS. But the most important thing in all this is that in UR your every next game feels almost the same, you get exact same quests and encounter exact same opponents. It doesn't make much difference whether you kill him using psi abilities or a bullet travelling at high speeds.

In AoD you learn a totally different piece of a story, some unique quests and locations and your opponents are hand picked and not some trash mobs. Every encounter has a meaning and is interesting, three is no respawning and no grinding (which is the case for UR in classic mode). In AoD locations are as monotonous and there are no annoying sewers like in Vampire the Masquarade Bloodlines or mines in Arcanum. In UR locations such as these are common.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
795
ToEE is very much a dungeon crawl. The Circle of Eight mod is hte best mod for it. Its only really defining feature verus AoD and UR is it's party-based. If you like an abundance of combat and perhaps a more tactical party-based experience, try ToEE. ToEE might also be cheaper. When I bought it I got it for like $3. It's $5.99 normally.

I didn't vote because I haven't played any of them. I do have ToEE but haven't played it yet. Just read reviews.

Also ToEE is D&D 3.5 I think. Not sure if the others are based on D&D rules.

EDIT: Beware the Co8 party size increase (on paper seems smart, but in reality not so much):
http://af.gog.com/forum/temple_of_elemental_evil/party_size_vs_difficulty?as=1649904300
The thing is, there's so much money and loot and XP when you only split 3 ways! I could afford plate mail for the paladin when clearing out moathouse. Now he's whacking about with a +2 holy greatsword!! (decided to forgo glaives this time)
Was expensive, but affordable when I can pawn a bunch of magic weapons and items that'd otherwise go to secondary tanks.

With extra XP, I seem to be constantly a couple of levels above that of a normal full party. Maybe more. The going seems actually easier this way, much like in Icewind Dale.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Comte

Guest
Yn_EO4l_O.png
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,856
All are good, underrail is better in every way that matters. Stop making shitty excuses and play this masterpiece.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
The Temple of Elemental Evil has the distinction of being only the Infinity Engine Era game I haven't played (much). It is worth prioritizing over Age of Decadence or Underrail?

I can't comment on ToEE, but AoD and Underrail are my two most recently played games. I can tell you right away that which one you'll enjoy more will depend entirely on what you like in RPGs. The combat in Underrail is more varied and much more extensive than in AoD. I've already put 52 hours into Underrail, most of it in combat, and I don't think I'm close to being done. A combatant playthrough in AoD might take somewhere between 13 and 17 hours. On the other hand, the combat in Underrail is about all that impresses me -- the rest being just above average to good. The characters and plot all had a chance to be interesting, but so far the writing has failed to deliver, as very awkward sentence structure is frequent. If this will bother you, then you may want to play AoD first, which is impressive in writing, atmosphere, and combat, albeit a lot shorter than Underrail. The only other thing to say is that AoD has a much harsher learning curve. You can easily miss a lot of content in your first few playthroughs which can be a bit frustrating.
 

Xzylvador

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
386
Location
The rich part of Europe
Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Well, at the very least, if this poll is any indication, Codex goty 2015 will be quite interesting to follow.

Going to bow out of this discussion as I've said what I wanted to and don't think either side will convince the other, will lurk as usual and
hermes-popcorn.gif



VOTE THE WITCHER 3! MORE BOOBS MAKE BETTER GAMEZ!
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
ah the battle between the church of aod and the sect of underrail has begun

The funniest part of this will be that Vault Dweller, Styg and Elhoim in all likelihood really don't give a fuck and are probably big fans of each other's work.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
ah the battle between the church of aod and the sect of underrail has begun

The funniest part of this will be that Vault Dweller, Styg and Elhoim in all likelihood really don't give a fuck and are probably big fans of each other's work.
Haven't heard from Styg, but VD was very impressed by Underrail.

AoD is good, but I don't think it really does anything new, and a lot of the things it does well are still pretty flawed. Underrail has some elements that just rise to a level of JA2-quality execution in some areas. And character systems is no fucking contest - UR blows AoD out of the water.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
AoD is good, but I don't think it really does anything new

Does the unprecedented amount of player sovereignty over the direction of the plot not count? Sure, that might not be important if all you care about is the combat, but it is something new as far I know.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
AoD is good, but I don't think it really does anything new

Does the unprecedented amount of player sovereignty over the direction of the plot not count?
Ummm... no?

Then what game allows the player a similar level of control over the plot? I can't think of any and I've played through most c&c heavy RPGs. The only other possibility is that you're using the word "new" to mean something entirely different than its standard definition. Both AoD and Underrail have played like pretty unique games -- I really have trouble seeing how either is just an amalgamation of previously used concepts executed with the same level of quality.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
AoD is good, but I don't think it really does anything new

Does the unprecedented amount of player sovereignty over the direction of the plot not count?
Ummm... no?

Then what game allows the player a similar level of control over the plot? I can't think of any and I've played through most c&c heavy RPGs. The only other possibility is that you're using the word "new" to mean something entirely different than its standard definition. Both AoD and Underrail have played like pretty unique games -- I really have trouble seeing how either is just an amalgamation of previously used concepts executed with the same level of quality.
I mean - AoD is basically either a CYOA or a combat game. The mechanics do not mesh well together - they are (often) fine individually, but there lacks a cohesiveness of the individual elements to make it a truly classic *game*. It's not one game, it's 2 (maybe 3?) games.

Underrail has a JA2-esque combination of different elements into a greater whole. Character system is fantastic and is backed up with superb combat, and then relatively minor secondary systems that still involve impressive options to the player. Stealth, sound, crafting - all of those are solid in their own right and feed into an already excellent base. Comparatively - AoD feels disjointed in a lot of places. It wasn't designed with systems in mind, and that becomes obvious in certain circumstances. If Underrail ever suffers from uneven pacing or anything like that, you can still fall back to the superb systems and how they support each other to have fun with - AoD doesn't have that.

It's a fine game in its own right, and I'm sure storyfags really love it. It's just not a good enough game to be a classic.

But then again - this is a website that considers Arcanum something more than an unmitigated disaster, and has hundreds of pages of threads on various Bethshit - so preferring AoD is definitely a lesser sin than that at least.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
AoD is good, but I don't think it really does anything new

Does the unprecedented amount of player sovereignty over the direction of the plot not count?
Ummm... no?

Then what game allows the player a similar level of control over the plot? I can't think of any and I've played through most c&c heavy RPGs. The only other possibility is that you're using the word "new" to mean something entirely different than its standard definition. Both AoD and Underrail have played like pretty unique games -- I really have trouble seeing how either is just an amalgamation of previously used concepts executed with the same level of quality.
Well, for me the problem with AoD was that - in a non-combat, merchant playthrough - this control over the plot was reduced to passing skill checks in dialogues, which is exceedingly easy to do once I've got past the first city. I never liked "choose your own adventure" games, and frankly, MasterSmithFandago is spot on, because that how AoD felt to me.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Does the unprecedented amount of player sovereignty over the direction of the plot not count?

The what now? Is that what's called when the game teleports you from place to place and tells you about events and people you never knew about like you are supposed to know about them? Good stuff that, I wonder why nobody ever did it before.

this is a website that considers Arcanum something more than an unmitigated disaster

So AoD is at least fine but Arcanum is...

...yeah, go fuck yourself.
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,449
TOEE has the more pleasant combat system I ever saw in a CRPG. Turn based at its hight. I don't understand why so many CRPG have a real time combat system. it feels completaly wrong when you come from pen and paper. Beside it is anti climactic. I always thought it was a parade to the difficulty of creating a properly balanced, complex and suspensfull combat system. In real time you don't really pay attention, you just go with approximation. Besides, I suppose there is the arcade effect.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
AoD, obviously. People who prefer UR suffer from a crippling mental deficiency.
 

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