Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

[Turjan]

Well, duh. The mod files aren't DRMed.

As a side note, the official DLC's aren't either :D.

 

[Shadowfang]

Seerix my posts were short so i invite you to read them again. This time with your sarcam detector turned ON.
GSC deserved nothing more but what it got.
A modding community can tell a lot of the game it mods. Most of the more popular mods for any stalker games, are changes to its core features. Why? Because they sucked.

It actually had quite a learning curve and once you mastered it you could achieve good effectiveness and accuracy - apparently you didn't.

I don't think it did. It became quite manageable once you got decent weapons. Once i got my hands on a Lr300 the game became incredible easy. Unless you are telling me you used the first pistol you found through the whole game.
They nerfed the initial weapons so you had a sense of rpg progression through your equipment and it ended on that pathetic show.

COP was the most polished and has best quest design/writing, but it was full easy mode most of the time and lacked truly scary locations.

The reason it was so easy is because most of the challenges are based on economy and once you can buy some decent equipment you can trash almost everything with ease. This happened quite soon aswell because there was money pouring off every hole in COP.
Did also didn't force you to start with pos nerfed guns which helps and also contributed to more interesting firearms because they could exceed at different stats without being a boring linear progression.
About the scary locations, they failed miserably on SOC because they were filled with Humans shooting through everything at one point or another during your exploration.

 

[Callisto]

Here we go again .

Space Engineers
https://steamcommunity.com/app/244850/discussions/0/618460129741693050

 

[Zed]

'space engineers' is not really in the same ballpark as skyrim tho.
in fact this was the first time I heard about it.

 

[Astral Rag]

Early Access + paid mods= double decline

In before other shitty derpbox games follow suit, this industry can't crash soon enough.

 

[Alienman]

Holy hell, it's already starting to spread. Rigor Mortis hasn't even kicked in yet for the pc-modding community.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

This will fail and for free market freedom hater commies dread it will be because it's not market sensible ,cost too much and have negative PR.

 

[Grim Monk]

The decision of whether something is free or not rests with its owners. What if I think your car is free? Do I just fucking take your car?

Let's say you let people build a community based on free use of your car, you specify the conditions making it clear that they will be able to continue doing it indefinitely and set up measures for this arrangement to not break down due to for example you dying or leaving.
Then, with a whole community depending on your car to survive, based on the terms you dictated yourself, you decide that no, you decide to take your car away and dismantle the failsafes, because it's fucking your car and shit.
You know the solution to such problem? Shooting your face off and liberating your car.
It's that simple.

Comrade DraQ just discovered his inner "Dzerzhinsky"...

"Expropriate the Expropriators!!!"

 

[svvvs]

Nice one.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730320208809/

 

[Infinitron]

This will fail and for free market freedom hater commies dread it will be because it's not market sensible ,cost too much and have negative PR.

Pretty much.

Look at it this way. It is now easier to release mods on Steam than it is to release games. There is no gatekeeping whatsoever. Valve see fit to gatekeep and regulate their catalog of games, but not mods.

Now, you might say, that's okay, because mods aren't as important as games, right? But another way to look at it is that, generally speaking, the average mod is a lot shittier than the average game. Mods need more gatekeeping, not less.

Steam has just opened the portal to an unregulated torrent of shit. How can you build an economy out of shit?

 

[mastroego]

It's true that not one should EXPECT or DEMAND modders to work for free.
But the problems is reversed.
How much does this guy expect to gain in sells of his mod, really?
Because as I argued in my previous posts, the LONG TERM problem is: will games that more or less require mods to be played even sell when mods aren't free?

He's not selling a stand-alone product.
He's selling (now) something that depend's on something else. And that something else might just have lost a lot of its power of attraction.

 

[Dexter]

 

[sser]

This is what modding is. It's a hobby, it's something people do for fun, or to make something for their own enjoyment (that they then share with the community), or maybe it's even something people to so they have something to add to their portfolio, but it's still something they make for free in order to show off their talent, and that they hope might get them a paid job - not something they set out to do with the goal of selling it in the first place. Huge fucking difference.

Making money off doing something and doing that something for fun/your own enjoyment are not mutually exclusive.

Except that is the case here.

I don't have anything against mods being essentially 3rd party DLC being sold for money. However, there are many mods that aren't 3rd party DLCs. Many are 3rd party patches, many are dependencies for other mods that already exist and were built on assumption that their dependencies will remain free. Suddenly hiding those dependencies behind paywall is effectively yoinking the ground from underneath those other, often ambitious and worthwhile mods. Not to mention that free modding produces different, and advantageous structure of mods produced - for starters both total number of mods per game and height of dependency hierarchies is effectively limited only by the endurance of the program and user downloading them. In a world of small modding teams, having someone else do generic scripting library to plug into and someone else produce the assets is invaluable - every modder or small team having to reinvent the wheel over and over will leave very little resources left to actually produce anything worthwhile.

This is one thing I'm talking about when I say the community is fractured, yes. Maybe the guys who sell skins for TF2/Dota/CS for a living know a thing or two about this. But yes, modders don't have the proper resources to always make their own shit - so they borrow it from others. That's kinda my point, no? That if you give modders lots'o'dosh maybe we'll see stuff like Long War forming foundations of its own, with teeth to hold onto the game instead of inevitably disappearing, or having its primary talents get sucked away into the industry (even though this "wasn't for profit").

Not everything has to have a price tag or be owned by someone in particular to have value. Fractured modding scene will be poorer modding scene producing inferior mods.
The solution is either not allowing paid mods, or enforcing set of rules allowing only the mods that are already well separated from the community network to be sellable.
Now creating this sort of deep fractures in already thriving modding scene is nothing short of corporate vandalism - again, not everything has to have a price tag or be owned by someone in particular to have value.

"Not allowing" is a restriction. Who are you to say whether someone can sell mods or not? If the option is there, it's theirs to take. It's rather cheeky to act as if it is a utopian commonality that no mod must be sold.

One of the reasons I talked about the sales of horse cock for $10k is because it would reveal an uncomfortable truth - that some mods have monetary value.

If they have monetary value, who are you to say they should not be sold? It isn't up to you. It's up to the person selling the mod. If you can't replicate their mod for free, then maybe that mod is indeed worth what it is worth.

What seems to horrify people is the notion that, yes, they would pay for many of the mods they use.

What's pretty basic is libertards' inability to grasp concern for continued existence of things you actually do want to buy or otherwise have access to.

Not only this kind of practices destroy the kind of community that could be producing worthwhile mods, they also form a very nasty precedent - making customers pay arbitrary, undisclosed amounts arbitrary number of times for usable product, with developers benefitting from this.
This creates a conflict of interest as you actually profit from releasing buggy, unfinished crap, as you get a cut from each patch and fix in arbitrary tall stacks sold by your modders. You no longer just save money by making your game shittier - you both save money and then earn more by making a worse product, at least in short term.

Nobody is 'making' anybody pay for anything.

I've already stated mods have a potential to be Unofficial Developer DLC. Why? Because we already have DLC that does that.

Also, mods being free did not stop Bethesda from already behaving in this manner, so it seems like a pretty moot point regardless.

The decision of whether something is free or not rests with its owners. What if I think your car is free? Do I just fucking take your car?

Let's say you let people build a community based on free use of your car, you specify the conditions making it clear that they will be able to continue doing it indefinitely and set up measures for this arrangement to not break down due to for example you dying or leaving.
Then, with a whole community depending on your car to survive, based on the terms you dictated yourself, you decide that no, you decide to take your car away and dismantle the failsafes, because it's fucking your car and shit.
You know the solution to such problem? Shooting your face off and liberating your car.
It's that simple.

Another extreme example that makes no sense. We are discussing mods and games here, not a livelihood intrinsic to how many dollars are in your pocket.

Here's an actual example that makes sense: there's a market of model airplanes. The airplane pieces themselves - plain, wooden - are sold for money. A community of people help diversify the market by freely providing paints and trinkets and stickers to make the planes look unique. One day, the guy who makes paint thinks, What if I sell this like the actual plane-makers do? He does. And then people either buy it and justify his decision, or they don't and let their planes go barren. Now read very closely: the paint maker has not gone beyond a point of no return. If there is no market for his paints, then he can promptly return to distributing the paints for free.

Rejecting his justification for selling paints were they to make money is a clear refusal to respect an objective truth.

 

[Turjan]

Steam has just opened the portal to an unregulated torrent of shit. How can you build an economy out of shit?

 

[Alienman]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730323284103/

Paying for Mods is the best thing that has happen to PC Gaming in a long time.
If you disagree then you arn't a real PC Gamer.

Im tired of these cheapskates not paying for all the mods that require lots of hardwork. You people don't appreciate anything. I consistently see you people ♥♥♥♥♥ing about mods. Sorry but modders deserve money, they deserve it because of all the hardwork they put into it.

Bethesda and Steam also deserve a cut. Betheseda for creating the game obviously which makes the mod possible and STEAM for hosting the files for download. So yeah everybody deserves a cut.

If you are a true gamer, you will welcome this with open arms. Finally Modders will get money for their hardwork and we will be seeing much better mods.

Not only that but Developers finally have an incentive to make games mod friendly so we will expect more mod friendly games!

This is the Greatest thing that has happen to modding community....Worst thing that has happen to cheapskate non true gamers.

I wonder how much Valve pays for a message like this. Free game? 20 euros in steam-wallet?

 

[pippin]

pic

"WE DIDNT LISTEN"
This is the kind of gullible fucks who are part of the "Gaming" culture right now. They actually think companies are doing good. Even EA, although it's hip to hate them. At least Origin offers refunds; this is a fact.
People agreeing with this shit are probably console gamers who are ok with paying 4x money for the same shitty games.

 

[Cazzeris]

Someone should teach that fat fuck a lesson...

Spoiler

"Let off some Steam, Gaben"

 

[DeepOcean]

Those whining bitches on Steam are ridiculous. So much bullshit... "Modding is a sacred hobby, only the order of the people with shiny souls should make it for the goodness of all.", fuck this bullshit. Modding is alot of work, if you want mods for free make your own. Many modders only worked for free because they were forced by the IP laws not because the goodness of their hearts. Even the Killer floor dudes... is killing floor 2 free? Nope. Why they don't continue making stuff for free then if its so wonderful? Because they need money.

Gaben and Bethesda are fucking cheap money grubbers for grabbing 75% and I hate the monopolistic aspects of this but I disagree with the amount and method not with the principle of paid modding. I watched so many excellent good ideas for modding becomming smoke over the years because "You must be a good potato communist and make stuff for free to me while I don't give a fuck to you."

If depended on me, I would get the IP laws and throw them on the garbage where they belong to but as there is no way in hell of that happening, this is chance of modding become something more widespread but companies should not wanting to exploit so much something they didn't lift a finger to help. If some crazy fuckers made a not shit version of Skyrim, I would happy to pay them.

 

[Telengard]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730323284103/

Paying for Mods is the best thing that has happen to PC Gaming in a long time.
If you disagree then you arn't a real PC Gamer.

Im tired of these cheapskates not paying for all the mods that require lots of hardwork. You people don't appreciate anything. I consistently see you people ♥♥♥♥♥ing about mods. Sorry but modders deserve money, they deserve it because of all the hardwork they put into it.

Bethesda and Steam also deserve a cut. Betheseda for creating the game obviously which makes the mod possible and STEAM for hosting the files for download. So yeah everybody deserves a cut.

If you are a true gamer, you will welcome this with open arms. Finally Modders will get money for their hardwork and we will be seeing much better mods.

Not only that but Developers finally have an incentive to make games mod friendly so we will expect more mod friendly games!

This is the Greatest thing that has happen to modding community....Worst thing that has happen to cheapskate non true gamers.

I wonder how much Valve pays for a message like this. Free game? 20 euros in steam-wallet?

That's so laden with buzzwords, talking points, and egregious capitalization, that I would say the price of an intern.

 

[Grim Monk]

Another extreme example that makes no sense. We are discussing mods and games here, not a livelihood intrinsic to how many dollars are in your pocket.

Here's an actual example that makes sense: there's a market of model airplanes. The airplane pieces themselves - plain, wooden - are sold for money. A community of people help diversify the market by freely providing paints and trinkets and stickers to make the planes look unique. One day, the guy who makes paint thinks, What if I sell this like the actual plane-makers do? He does. And then people either buy it and justify his decision, or they don't and let their planes go barren. Now read very closely: the paint maker has not gone beyond a point of no return. If there is no market for his paints, then he can promptly return to distributing the paints for free.

Rejecting his justification for selling paints were they to make money is a clear refusal to respect an objective truth.

I stated before the problem arises when people used something for the basis of their own works.
Those works already exist, and are tied up behind the Paywall.

It's now selling access to their accumulated efforts...

It's like a guy builds a free paint gallery and other people contribute their paintings.
Then he suddenly puts a guard at the door and starts collecting fees...

 

[BlackAdderBG]

The only cut Bethesda deserves is through the neck.

I stated before the problem arises when people used something for the basis of their own works.
Those works already exist, and are tied up behind the Paywall.

It's now selling access to their accumulated efforts...

Say a dude builds a free paint gallery and other people contribute their paintings.
Then he suddenly puts a guard at the door and starts collecting entrance fees.
The guy is profiting off access the work they contributed under false assumptions...

Mods are more like graffiti.

 

[jcd]

This will fail and for free market freedom hater commies dread it will be because it's not market sensible ,cost too much and have negative PR.

Pretty much.

Look at it this way. It is now easier to release mods on Steam than it is to release games. There is no gatekeeping whatsoever. Valve see fit to gatekeep and regulate their catalog of games, but not mods.

Now, you might say, that's okay, because mods aren't as important as games, right? But another way to look at it is that, generally speaking, the average mod is a lot shittier than the average game.

Steam has just opened the portal to an unregulated torrent of shit. How can you build an economy out of shit?

O rly? I wonder which flip-flopper said this just a few days ago:

Some pioneering indie modder team needs to put together a good campaign for some RPG and prove there's a business model here. If that ever happens, it could make things very interesting.

When things are uncertain, Jewfinitron decides to stand with the Big Game companies in case developers read this. The moment it becomes obvious everyone hates the system, he jumps on the bandwagon and shits all over Valve like the opportunist scumbag he is.

 

[sser]

Another extreme example that makes no sense. We are discussing mods and games here, not a livelihood intrinsic to how many dollars are in your pocket.

Here's an actual example that makes sense: there's a market of model airplanes. The airplane pieces themselves - plain, wooden - are sold for money. A community of people help diversify the market by freely providing paints and trinkets and stickers to make the planes look unique. One day, the guy who makes paint thinks, What if I sell this like the actual plane-makers do? He does. And then people either buy it and justify his decision, or they don't and let their planes go barren. Now read very closely: the paint maker has not gone beyond a point of no return. If there is no market for his paints, then he can promptly return to distributing the paints for free.

Rejecting his justification for selling paints were they to make money is a clear refusal to respect an objective truth.

I stated before the problem arises when people used something for the basis of their own works.
Those works already exist, and are tied up behind the paywall.

It's now selling access to their accumulated efforts...

It's like a guy builds a free paint gallery and other people contribute their paintings.
Then he suddenly puts a guard at the door and starts collecting fees...

Yup. That is an issue. Again, I don't know how it's going to work exactly if, say, one of those script dudes puts his script behind a paywall. I'm not super familiar with Skyrim's modding (mostly just used SkyUI, and I've only played the game for a very girthy... 16 hours), but IIRC there were like two scripts of sorts that ran through the community. I don't really know what would happen if, say, they both sold their scripts for $99, effectively taking the community hostage.

I think there are two debates here, though. One is the functionality/mechanics of how this is going to work, and the other seems to be one of principle.

 

[Alienman]

Those whining bitches on Steam are ridiculous. So much bullshit... "Modding is a sacred hobby, only the order of the people with shiny souls should make it for the goodness of all.", fuck this bullshit. Modding is alot of work, if you want mods for free make your own. Many modders only worked for free because they were forced by the IP laws not because the goodness of their hearts. Even the Killer floor dudes... is killing floor 2 free? Nope. Why they don't continue making stuff for free then if its so wonderful? Because they need money.

Gaben and Bethesda are fucking cheap money grubbers for grabbing 75% and I hate the monopolistic aspects of this but I disagree with the amount and method not with the principle of paid modding. I watched so many excellent good ideas for modding becomming smoke over the years because "You must be a good potato communist and make stuff for free to me while I don't give a fuck to you."

If depended on me, I would get the IP laws and throw them on the garbage where they belong to but as there is no way in hell of that happening, this is chance of modding become something more widespread but companies should not wanting to exploit so much something they didn't lift a finger to help. If some crazy fuckers made a not shit version of Skyrim, I would happy to pay them.

You are doing this on free time, no one is forcing you. Shouldn't the thanks and the respect be enough? And if you are a good enough modder you will get picked up by a gaming company or some publisher, with the possibility that your mod gets made into a retail game. Why isn't that enough? Now all of a sudden every god damn modder out there expect to be paid and make a living out of this, just because they put in some hours... what?!

Still. There are other ways if you really want some money. Patreon & pay pal donation instead of forcing mod-dlcs down our throat.

 

[Infinitron]

O rly? I wonder which flip-flopper said this just a few days ago:

Some pioneering indie modder team needs to put together a good campaign for some RPG and prove there's a business model here. If that ever happens, it could make things very interesting.

When things are uncertain, Jewfinitron decides to stand with the Big Game companies in case developers read this. The moment it becomes obvious everyone hates the system, he jumps on the bandwagon and shits all over Valve like the opportunist scumbag he is.

It's only flip-flopping if you don't examine the substance of the posts. The first one is talking about how it would be cool if this became a vehicle for full-scale quasi-professional quality modding in games with a relatively high barrier to entry. The second one is about how, in the context of a mass market title like Skyrim, it's currently just an unbarred path towards monetizing all the zillions of crap cosmetic mods you find on sites like the Nexus.