Incline Neal Hallford and Betrayal at Krondor Sequel Thread

[Grunker]

But Pathfinder, nealiios. Pathfinder would make me (and a lot of others - Excidium and VentilatorOfDoom, come represent bros) motherfucking ecstatic. Did I mention it's like D&D but tons better and FREE? I'm not sure if I did. As in, it costs no money, and you can do with it what you wish?

That's a bit disingenuous, Grunker. The 3E SRD is free too.

3.5 SRD isn't D&D. There is A LOT of expanded content that's unavailable in the SRD. The SRD is mostly only Core. The Pathfinder Open Game Content includes everything Paizo ever released, except art, fluff-stuff about Golarion, and adventures.

Plus, Pathfinder is basically D&D 3.75. There is no reason to use the 3.5 OGC over the Pathfinder OGC

 

[evdk]

Additionally, Paizo would probably help promote the game if it were made with their rules. I doubt WotC cares about the 3.5E at all.

 

[Grunker]

That's actually a good point. Maybe send the good people at Paizo a mail asking them how they would feel about a video game using the Open Content. Maybe they'd promote it a bit, maybe more.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Using Pathfinder sounds like a good idea to me. It has an established fanbase who are likely to be interested in a CRPG based on it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Neal is a massive BRO, and Betrayal at Krondor has to be my most favouritest rpg of all time. The prospect of a worthy successor to it gives me funny feelings around my pelvis.

Godspeed

 

[KazikluBey]

Finally, thread read. Glad to hear you're going for the PC. Fleshcrafting sounds like fun. Hoping you make it turn based. Will most likely back.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I think you can hit at least Dead State numbers on your kickstarter if you have some kind of tech demo along with "Hey i'm one of the main guys on BaK".

You'd be in the same boat as them as a developer with an impressive resume without being a well known name, with a rough demo and interesting hook (zombies vs BaK nostaligia). The other thing is that they did build an interest over many months before going to kickstarter.

 

[Kosmonaut]

But Pathfinder, nealiios. Pathfinder would make me (and a lot of others - Excidium and VentilatorOfDoom, come represent bros) motherfucking ecstatic. Did I mention it's like D&D but tons better and FREE? I'm not sure if I did. As in, it costs no money, and you can do with it what you wish?

That's a bit disingenuous, Grunker. The 3E SRD is free too.

Pathfinder SRD > 3e SRD

 

[Kosmonaut]

Hey nealiios, I'm just, you know saying... if you want to save some time on designing a whole system, which would surely free up time for other things, there's a completely free one right here with as much depth as you'd like:

www.d20pfsrd.com

And it's totally open for use!

Just eh... just use it neal. Just please fucking make your game party-based and use that system Neil. Please, Neil. For the love of all that is holy. I will single-handedly pledge 500$ whole American dollars to your Kickstarter-campaign, and I litterally have no money, so I'll have to rob them someone. But I swear to God that I will.

Can't make any promises regarding the system, but I'll take a look at what's there. And it will ABSOLUTELY be party based, as was the original BAK.

Neal, is there any chance of a new Swords and Circuitry book? Besides some threads in the Codex Workshop in this forum, it's one of my favorite sources of ideas for RPG design. Maybe another Kickstarter

 

[nealiios]

Hey nealiios, I'm just, you know saying... if you want to save some time on designing a whole system, which would surely free up time for other things, there's a completely free one right here with as much depth as you'd like:

www.d20pfsrd.com

And it's totally open for use!

Just eh... just use it neal. Just please fucking make your game party-based and use that system Neil. Please, Neil. For the love of all that is holy. I will single-handedly pledge 500$ whole American dollars to your Kickstarter-campaign, and I litterally have no money, so I'll have to rob them someone. But I swear to God that I will.

Can't make any promises regarding the system, but I'll take a look at what's there. And it will ABSOLUTELY be party based, as was the original BAK.

Neal, is there any chance of a new Swords and Circuitry book? Besides some threads in the Codex Workshop in this forum, it's one of my favorite sources of ideas for RPG design. Maybe another Kickstarter

Jana and I are looking into that right now, actually. Our exclusivity clauses have lapsed, and our copyrights have reverted to us, so it's definitely been on our minds. The only thing that's prevented us from getting started is that it would be a collosal undertaking. Virtually every chapter in the book would need updating, and I'd want to go back and provide even more info than we did in the first edition. More concrete examples. Some workbook style exercizes. There's just so many ways to make a second version better. As big as the first edition was, I could see the 2nd edition clocking in at around 700 pages.

Another thing is that I'd want to do is fix the book's layout. They completely screwed up what we'd signed off on. When we pitched it to Prima, part of our "sell" was that it would not only be a great reference work, but we wanted it to look like the core rulebook you'd buy from any world class gaming system. We wanted people to be proud to have this sitting on their desks, even after a lot of the information in it became obsolete. Unfortunately that concept fell by the wayside once they got it into production, and instead of using the art we'd sent them to do a proper layout, they stuck all the art images in the middle of the book on slick stock. It made NO SENSE in the final book. Even worse, they stiffed the artists who were supposed to be getting paid for providing art for the book, so it just was a bad deal all round for lots of people.

With the book back in our hands, we'd definitely publish it ourselves, and it would be all that it should have been the first time around.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

As you said, the Betrayal brand comes with a whole list of assumptions, like the one you mentioned above. Free roam. Tactical combat. Chapter based storytelling. Puzzle chests. Those are the elements that made BAK, well, BAK. All of this said, however, I may do a name change before the Kickstarter once people realize that I'm coming, and once they understand the spiritual legacy that this thing carries with it.

Here's why you keep the "Betrayal at" title: not everybody is on this forum. The members here keep themselves well informed of what's going on in the world of cRPGs, but your average jerkoff doesn't. If I hadn't joined recently to launch absurd amounts of vitriol at Bioware (yes I am a dickhead) I would have no idea that BaK had a successor-of-sorts being planned. Now, ignorant of this, if I had tripped over a game titled, "Betrayal at x," I would absolutely feel the need to investigate further to see if it's related to BaK in any way because that shit was the HOTNESS back in the day. Betrayal at Krondor occupies a space next to Star Control 2 buried in the closet and I don't even have a 3.5" floppy drive. Even the Zelda cart I'm hanging onto has an NES near it, but those 2 computer games are fundamentally useless boxes of stuff that I can't part with.

So, those're my logical two cents, for whatever they're worth. I don't think the faux-hipster backlash of using that title would have any real impact on its success, but there is a reasonable chance that NOT using it could be detrimental to some degree.

Wait a minute, doesn't that Numa Numa Numenera game have Torment in the title. Enough said, my whole post could be boiled down to that.

 

[Grunker]

It has an established fanbase who are likely to be interested in a CRPG based on it.

Definetely a worthy consideration as well... anything that can help these games is basically a welcome thing, I should think.

Pathfinder even has rules for old-age Firearms if the plan is to include that as part of the whole Steampunk thing. And alchemists who throw bombs and shit like that.

 

[Marobug]

Shit, NO STEAMPUNK please.

 

[evdk]

Pretty much anything is better than your standard fantasy setting. Even streampunk.

 

[Zed]

Even streampunk.

was that a deliberate play on words?

 

[evdk]

was that a deliberate play on words?

Sadly not, just my phone's text prediction combined with a lack of sleep.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

Can you maniacs back off the artistic decisions of the project? We can all start bitching and cunting when Neal's acquired by EA.

and I don't even have a 3.5" floppy drive.

I looked, and my BaK is a CD.

 

[groke]

The CD version has CD audio that is almost as good as an MT-32 for you less priveleged fellows, too.

Speaking of which; Jaesun, any chance of you recording BaK's soundtrack?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Here's why you keep the "Betrayal at" title: not everybody is on this forum. The members here keep themselves well informed of what's going on in the world of cRPGs, but your average jerkoff doesn't.

I'm sure that actually makes no difference because your average jerkoff has never heard of Betrayal at Krondor amyway.

 

[Jaesun]

Speaking of which; Jaesun, any chance of you recording BaK's soundtrack?

Anyone know if it was specifically scored for the MT-32, or if it was just an option available in the game?

But yes, this is also on my list of soundtracks to record for my YouTube channel.

 

[Sceptic]

I'm pretty sure it was SC-55, but I'd have to go home and check.

Also, CD version is unfortunately bugged and one of the quests (rewarding you with a spell) cannot be completed. Otherwise it's THE best version of the game.

 

[cvv]

Holy smokes, just a week ago I bought BaK at GOG and start playing it again and now I'm basking in a warm balm of nostalgia and old-school videogame craft. And today I found out, through the power of internets, there's a discussion about a successor on a something called RPDCodex? Naturally I had to sign up and put in my two cents.

This thread is TL so I DR but I read some initial comments and:
- keep the "Betrayal at" name; Kickstarter WILL explode; the downside - you can't try any new and exciting design, you gotta give us nostalgic old farts what we want and expect
- definitely non-linear free-roam open-world turn-based
- as for third or first person, I don't really care, I suppose it'd be safer to go with first person though, for more of that sweet sweet Kickstarter nostalgia dough
- I wouldn't change much in the way of gamplay mechanics, BaK was so appealing because of that "simple mechanics/comples narrative" contrast magic; yes old farts love their classes and charts and ability to play with an eyebrows height for a few days during the character creation, but sometimes, just sometimes it's great to focus just on exploration and story, provided it's as excellent as in BaK
- please hire a good profesional writer; as Pat Rothfuss said in his videoblog, writers are dirt cheap and make a huge difference; don't go the Casey Hudson highway to hell
- don't bother with voice work, nowadays everyone expect Bioware level of quality and I doubt you can afford Martin Sheen; put more money in SFX and music instead, a good music makes a world of difference

So I'm very excited, I freely admit I can't imagine a open-world, free-roaming, complex first-person RPG to be done well on a Kickstarter budget but then again what do I know, I registered just today and am completely illiterate.
Good luck Neal

 

[Rhuantavan]

- please hire a good profesional writer; as Pat Rothfuss said in his videoblog, writers are dirt cheap and make a huge difference; don't go the Casey Hudson highway to hell

Neal IS a great professional writer, in case you don't know the story and all the writing in BaK was his. He is also kickstarting a novel soon.

 

[cvv]

- please hire a good profesional writer; as Pat Rothfuss said in his videoblog, writers are dirt cheap and make a huge difference; don't go the Casey Hudson highway to hell

Neal IS a great professional writer, in case you don't know the story and all the writing in BaK was his. He is also kickstarting a novel soon.

Oh, no disrespect then, I don't know much about the background of BaK, I only read in the manual that Ray Feist participated on BaK so I thought he's done the writing because it was so good.
In that case, please Neal don't hire any other writer

 

[Crooked Bee]

I only read in the manual that Ray Feist participated on BaK so I thought he's done the writing because it was so good.

Unfortunately that's what most people think. That must drive Neil crazy. (I know it would drive me crazy if I were in his shoes. ) I just hope that doesn't harm the Kickstarter campaign too much.