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KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now in Beta

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
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Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
Quick update:

In case you ever wondered, just how big that code rework I kept talking about was, basically everything is now the same kind of entity (player, friendly NPCs, enemies).
This way of dealing with characters offers a couple of nice opportunities:



Whether it will be utilized this way in the end is another story, but it makes dealing with AI much easier.
Talking of which, I also worked a bit on the AI perception system.



I was also planning out some zones, which seems to go into the right direction now, but that's mostly on paper for the moment.
Next up: Tweaking alert states and after that combat.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
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Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
By the way dude, your game is gonna be in one big continuous environment, yeah?
I kinda got bummed about how the new Ultima Underworld will have the silly "portal worlds" thing going on.
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
By the way dude, your game is gonna be in one big continuous environment, yeah?

Yes. I'll probably have more information on that once I'm really diving into the level design, but the environment will definitely be continous.
Most of the world will have an onion skin/spiral layout, meaning you can easily create shortcuts from one area to another, keeping backtracking at a minimum.

Concerning level loading:
I had some test levels with loading screens running a couple of months ago, but ideallly Monomyth will use level streaming (which would make sense, since King's Field was actually renowned for that - there isn't a single loading screen in KF2/3/4 unless you are using marker stones).
Luckily Unreal Engine provides this as a native feature. I still gotta experiment with it a bit - especially with regards to level persistence.
 
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RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
Quick Update:

Been working on combat and level design.
Thanks to a blender plugin posted in the Game Developer thread level design iterations are now much faster.
Generally I'm following the 11 step approach (naturally it takes me more than just 11 days to make a region, since I create my own assets), however Blocking out was always kinda bothersome with UE4's standard tools, so that plugin really helps a lot. There's also Mesh Tools, but I haven't tried that yet. I imagine combining those two plugins might work out nicely.



So the general approach is blocking out, placing items/enemies, playing it, fixing it, replaying it etc etc.
Once an area works out gameplay-wise I add details/lighting/and so on.

With regards to combat I've mostly tweaked animations and character states:


(Lock on is fully optional by the way)

Other than that most changes happened in the background.
It's not entirely implemented yet, but technically combat works like this:

You have a base attack value, made up of a Slashing/Bludgeoning/Stabbing percentage.
Your enemy has a base defense value, made up of the same. The formula for damage is relatively simple at the moment: Damage is the sum of all attack values reduced by their respective defense values.

Whenever you hit an unsuspecting enemy it is a critical hit.
Critical hit modifiers depend on the weapon and their respective purpose. Meaning, with a dagger a critical stab is "more critical" than a critical slashing attack.
I might still introduce an additional modifier for attacks from behind. Still gotta experiment with that since it might have a strong impact on balance. It could work out nicely if armor weight actually has a (strong) impact on sneaking. The sneak attack is supposed to give the Thief playstyle an advantage over enemies to compensate for their lack of armor. Another thing I was thinking about was combat noise, where daggers are very quiet, while maces or hammers are very loud. That doesn't make all that much sense but it might add a nice component gameplay wise. I also have to experiment with that.

Anyway, every regular weapon can parry. However, the weight of the weapon determines the result. You can't parry a heavy hammer with a measly dagger. Or at least not very well.
The bigger the weight gap between your and the attacker's weapon, the more punishing parrying gets. This goes from losing precious stamina to basically having your defense broken from a single attack.

Parrying being rather punishing is also the reason why dodge jumps exist, which can be seen here:



This is actually an older gif without pain stun animations. I should note though: Only "full" attacks can pain stun enemies. Every attack costs a certain amount of stamina. Technically you can also attack if you are out of stamina. However those won't be full attacks (and have reduced damage). At the moment you need to bring up at least half the stamina for an attack to produce a pain stun.

There are minor and major painstuns.
Minor painstuns are just a small animation when the enemy is hit. They can delay attacks. They can't interrupt an attack.
Major painstuns are longer animations that interrupt attacks. They only occur when the enemy is out of stamina.

Blocking is essentially a better/less punishing form of parrying.
Stamina costs for blocking depend on the shield's stats and your defense can only break open if you run out of stamina.

Having your defense broken results in slower movement and being unable to counter-attack for roughly a second.
One thing I might still add is a strength bonus for blocking as well as a dexterity bonus for parrying.

And now to put all of that into an easily understandable tutorial area, without adding "that one quest" where some bozo shows you how to fight.
:despair:
 
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SophosTheWise

Cipher
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
522
So far, everything looks awesome. I'm really, really looking forward to your game, it might be one of my most anticipated titles. At least I check upon it regularly. Do you have any plans for expanding your "marketing" meaning a website with a dev blog or something? I think it would be beneficial to your project if you could reach a wider audience, and I think it will be easier for Monomyth than for other games. Plus I'd love to read about Monomyth's lore etc.

Also, playable Alpha when?:bounce:
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
I was thinking about a website just a while ago. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to really look into that matter. Eventually I believe there will be one though.
Would be ideal to launch that thing together with the alpha of course (or a little before that even). About the alpha: Currently progress is a bit slow, due to dayjob deadlines.
It will pick up again after those. By then I'll probably have a better idea about the actual remaining workload. The game's slowly getting into a presentable state and the focus is gradually shifting from coding towards real content creation.
 

SophosTheWise

Cipher
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
522
I was thinking about a website just a while ago. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to really look into that matter. Eventually I believe there will be one though.
Would be ideal to launch that thing together with the alpha of course (or a little before that even). About the alpha: Currently progress is a bit slow, due to dayjob deadlines.
It will pick up again after those. By then I'll probably have a better idea about the actual remaining workload. The game's slowly getting into a presentable state and the focus is gradually shifting from coding towards real content creation.

If you need any help with your website (or even content), you can contact me. I make my living as a writer, mainly in German. I'm very much into your project.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,156
So, some years ago, while I was waiting for Dark Souls 2, I had the idea "Why not take a look at the origin of that series?". So I looked into King's Field and - despite its awkward combat - I was thinking: "This is really cool! I wish there were more games like that". So I looked into Ultima Underworld (which I - despite being a long time Ultima fan - never really touched). And I also liked that a lot.
One thing led to another and soon I'd have finished System Shock and Thief and LG games in general - and also Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah. And I really enjoyed all of these a whole lot. But there was one thing that confused me: All of these games were at least 10-20 years old.

So I decided to take the least complex of these games (which is King's Field) and basically make a clone of that (trying to keep the project scale manageable and basically just making a game that I'd like to play). Since then the project has developed quite a bit however and Monomyth has grown into a first person action RPG with King's Field, Thief, Ultima Underworld and System Shock having a strong influence on it.

You're just missing one important slice of context, and that is Deus Ex. Wait, did you play System Shock 2 also?

Anyhow, what's wrong with your game? There must be something. All this monocleism extruded must be a ruse. Spill the beans. Everything these days is shit. Could RatTower really be our saviour in the commercial space?

What we've not yet seen is RPG systems. I bet you'll fuck that up. Yeah! that must be it.
It's also difficult to gauge your level design talent just from screenshots. But art direction/graphics/atmosphere is looking unbelievably good for a one-man show.

Nope, level design upon first glance looks good too:



:shredder:
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,156
RatTower what are your plans for combat? Any innovation/iteration or are we "chopping wood" like Ultima Underworld and Kings Field (which looks to be the case based on the video).
Well, while melee combat in these games could seriously use work, I am also fine with you playing it relatively safe.

What's your projected level of difficulty? Brutal like Kings Field? Hardcore yet fair like Dark Souls? Or just moderate to hard like most Looking Glass games?
Variable difficulty modes upon new game like LG games, or fixed universal of difficulty like From Software games?
Completely unrestricted saving and loading like LG games, or sensible restrictions like From Software games?
 
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RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
You're just missing one important slice of context, and that is Deus Ex. Wait, did you play System Shock 2 also?

Anyhow, what's wrong with your game? There must be something. All this monocleism extruded must be a ruse. Spill the beans. Everything these days is shit. Could RatTower really be our saviour in the commercial space?

What we've not yet seen is RPG systems. I bet you'll fuck that up. Yeah! that must be it.

I played Deus Ex long ago. Actually wanted to replay it.
Same with System Shock 2, which I didn't finish back then (for no particular reason - I just lacked the time and then forgot).

Concerning the RPG system, that depends....

...since we must first define what an RPG is. :troll:

Seriously though: The player character is currently based on 6 different stats (Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence - which determine the character's capabilities - and Vitality, Endurance and Focus - which determine health, stamina and mana). Those are pretty straight forward and are closely related to one of three archetypical playstyles (Warrior,Thief, Mage). I was thinking about adding cleric related stats but left them out for the moment to avoid feature creep. Same goes for dedicated skills like lockpicking. Activities like that are currently based on stat checks.
There is also weight, which is the weight sum of your equipped items and has an effect on your speed/dodging/jumping.
I'm still experimenting with all of that though. Same goes for NPCs and dialogues.


RatTower what are your plans for combat? Any innovation/iteration or are we "chopping wood" like Ultima Underworld and Kings Field (which looks to be the case based on the video).
Well, while melee combat in these games could seriously use work, I am also fine with you playing it relatively safe.

What's your projected level of difficulty? Brutal like Kings Field? Hardcore yet fair like Dark Souls? Or just moderate to hard like most Looking Glass games?
Variable difficulty modes upon new game like LG games, or fixed universal of difficulty like From Software games?
Completely unrestricted saving and loading like LG games, or sensible restrictions like From Software games?

Control-wise combat works a lot like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
Mechanically it is much like King's Field, where certain weapons have certain strengths and are better against certain enemies.

There will be restricted saving/loading - very likely KF style with "Save & Quit" added. The game will have a fixed difficulty level, which I would like to be roughly the same as KF2.

If you need any help with your website (or even content), you can contact me. I make my living as a writer, mainly in German. I'm very much into your project.

Thanks! I'll keep it in mind! :salute:
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
That was actually the plan, yes. I remember waiting for the latest version of that mod, but somehow never found the time to play it once it released.
I believe I also replayed Arx Fatalis around that time though, so I guess I don't really have an excuse :oops:
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,156
How is xp earned?

Control-wise combat works a lot like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
There will be restricted saving/loading - very likely KF style with "Save & Quit" added. The game will have a fixed difficulty level, which I would like to be roughly the same as KF2.

:incline:

There is also weight, which is the weight sum of your equipped items and has an effect on your speed/dodging/jumping.

What did you have in mind for balancing? That's trading a LOT for what I assume is merely defense. In Dork Souls all weight modifies is dodging.
Does that mean you have to design platforming and/or timed challenges (such as the swinging blades in the greenlight trailer) with fatass armor dude as the base?
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
I'm still on the fence about xp. More specifically I'm not sure whether killing monsters should give a significant amount of XP (if any at all), or if most XP should be earned through collecting certain items or opening certain doors, i.e. finishing tasks (much like Arx did it).
Technically neither is a problem, but the decision carries quite a bit of weight game design wise. Also it has implications on game mechanics like enemy respawn - in case there is any that is. I'm personally always happy when an area is cleared out. The question is whether that is the right decision for a game like Monomyth. Revisiting earlier areas from the game (for example to explore stuff you couldn't enter before) isn't all that interesting if they are completely empty. Even if the enemies are weak by then, it's fun to see how much stronger you got in the meantime. KF4 for example had reduced respawn once you cleared out a room (so there were, for example, only 2 instead of 5 enemies). I also had this idea of enemy re-inforcement, meaning, the longer you are gone from an area the more enemies respawn. But that's all experimental.

To cut a long story short: I gotta playtest it.

Same basically goes for character weight. What I want to avoid is that fatass armor dude enjoys all the advantages of having a fatass armor, while sneaking his way through the game, enjoying all the advantages of a thief.
Concerning challenges that guy will likely always be at a disadvantage in any situation related to speed. So that arrow trap or that swing blade might just get you. That's the price of wearing heavy armor.

That build is generally hard to balance. I remember playing it in Dark Souls 1 and it pretty much broke the game towards the end. I believe Iron Tarkus Armor + Tower Shield blocks the four kings like they are nothing. Couple that with the black knight halberd and that's pretty much it. You even get that thing relatively early (Darkroot garden i think). And there was little punishment for that playstyle. You couldn't dodge, but there was no need for it anyway.

One popular way to "balance" it is throwing a lot of spell casters at the player and reducing magic defense on strong armor. If you're not careful though, you'll end up with an endless Shrine of Amana. King's Field 1 (JP) actually does a similar thing in its last few levels. There it's less annoying though, since there is only one "right" armor set at the end and healing is a standard spell you can cast while pausing the game.

In short: It's an ongoing struggle to properly balance the fatass armor dude.
Some games even drop entire game mechanics to tackle the problem.
 
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hello friend

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Feb 26, 2012
Messages
7,847
Location
I'm on an actual spaceship. No joke.
Checkpoint/task XP with zero to limited to returning(interesting) respawn is vastly superior to kill xp. Kill XP almost forces you to play as a murderhobo, stealth becomes a fall back for when you're running out of resources, you might not want to use environment or traps against mobs in case xp is lost, double back to check every environment for maximum murder instead of finding best way to accomplish your objective etc. Fun gameplay shouldn't gimp your character.
 

Jack Dandy

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Messages
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I do like having at least a little respawning enemies, if only to mow 'em down when I'm all powerful to feel all big n strong.
 

RatTower

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Developer
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Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
All by myself, yes :salute:
That has one disadvantage: When I'm very busy in my dayjob, the development slows down.
Happened a couple of weeks ago (basically last month, till the 5th of May), which is why it's been a bit quiet lately.

Currently getting back on track, making a lot of nice progress, especially with regards to level design.
I finally found a proper workflow, that allows fast design iterations, which was really important for me. Level design in basic Unreal is a bit of a slog, since the engine's core tools are made for relatively open games, with a lot of modular assets. At least that's the impression I get and considering Epic Games is also deverloping Fortnite, that may actually be their primary focus.
Obviously Monomyth is a game focused on interior levels, so it needs a different bunch of tools - something closer to classic level design as seen in games like Quake or Thief.
As mentioned before I'm using Level Buddy (a blender plugin for Doom/Quake styled level design), but the real key to classic level design is the combination of level buddy with an Unreal Plugin called Mesh Tools - which I got right after the 5th.

On their own these tools are nice, but each one of them comes with a couple of drawbacks. Level Buddy crushes your texturing every time you rebuild your map and Mesh Tools - at least to my knowledge - doesn't have those comfortable boolean unification options (i.e. you create, for example, two cubes and unify them into one mesh, leaving you with a new shape - this is bacially how level buddy works). Together however they are perfect for what I'm doing. Level Buddy allows fast blockouts/geometry creation and Mesh tools allows fast (in-engine) UV projection (that also includes texture scaling - which is bothersome if you have to switch between Blender and Unreal all the time). So my level design workflow currently looks like this:

1) Gathering reference material
2) A really quick doodle of the area's outline.
3) Blockout in Level Buddy as seen here
4) Import into Unreal
5) Testing, cutting stuff, changing it again, bascially going back to 3) a couple of times - in this phase the design from 2) changes a lot. I tend to combine this with basic Unreal block brushes to roughly measure the scale of an area.
6) Once I'm confident about a part of the map, I snip that part off in level buddy and separate it into its own mesh.
7) Then I work over that isolated part again. I also do a quick UV projection (texturing) with Mesh Tools - this is like two or three clicks, so I can still change the level in Level Buddy afterwards
8) Then I continue with various detail passes - especially placing modular assets (like wall decorations in a castle or pillars in a cave)
9) I do this for every part of a level. Once the isolated parts of an area come together I also tend to make small in-engine changes on the geometry, polishing and fixing stuff - again with Mesh tools.

During all of this I also play around with the lighting a lot.

And that's basically it. Of course before any of this I need a rough idea, what the challenges in an area are. I like to define those very loosely though and slowly fit them into the level as it comes together. Makes the design phase a bit easier - also lets you think about the level more logically - from what I know this is basically what Thief did - where a castle wasn't just a bunch of hallways, but actually an environment where people could live in - you had kitchens, living rooms, servants rooms, bed rooms etc.
This is where the design principle clashes a bit with the King's Field side, which was entirely focused on challenge when it came to level design. It had secrets where secrets technically didn't make all that much sense and the entire ancient city doesn't have a single bathroom. So there is a challenge in marrying those two approaches towards level design. It works out surprisingly well so far, but in doubt I'll always go with the King's Field approach, since interesting gameplay is still my primary focus. This is especially valid for secret walls, traps and puzzles.

Anyway, the alpha level is coming along really, really well. I hope I'll have something to show in a while.
 
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DJOGamer PT

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Lusitânia
All by myself, yes :salute:

That's pretty awesome.

Hope you don't mind me asking.
What are the main challenges of making a game? How hard is it? And what advice you'd give me?
I ask this because I have 2 dream projects - 1 open ended action game, with gameplay similiar to Deus Ex and MGS3/V; and 1 open world ARPG in the vein of Gothic 2/Morrowind.
 

RatTower

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Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
That's pretty awesome.

Hope you don't mind me asking.
What are the main challenges of making a game? How hard is it?

It really depends on what you can bring to the table. It's more a matter of sticking with it, knowing what you can't do and trying to close those gaps.
I for example came from a programming background. So I had to get into 3D modelling and everything around it. Naturally I also had to get into engines, programming frameworks etc. but that wasn't all that much of a challenge, cause it was closer to what I already knew.
Currently I'm trying to get better at animation, which comes with it's own bag of problems. It's important not to be afraid of really sucking at something first and throwing your results away.
For example, when I was starting out with 3D stuff I basically remade every model 6 or 7 times. Likewise Monomyth is already (roughly) in its fifth iteration.

But I also made a lot of mistakes. It started out as a simple King's Field clone with really basic graphics:

E7axMDz.png


I might have finished that version, had it been better planned. And that actually brings me to the next point, which is probably the most important one:

Know what you want and try to set it in stone.

The current version of Monomyth looks and plays pretty much the way it was planned out two years ago, because I actually had a proper design document.
Of course I changed one or the other thing, but the keynotes are still exactly the same. From graphics, to setting, to gameplay style.

When you are first planning, try to cut your idea down to its basics. It will probably grow during the design process anyway.
Either by necessity or because of personal taste. The latter should be avoided as well as possible (feature creep). This counts for both mechanics and content.

I believe that Gothic might actually have been designed in a similar way.
They probably already had Gothic 2 in mind but then they were clever enough to say: Let's cut it down to less and design it really well.
And that worked out.

So to summarize:

- Know what you want and write that down
- Try to keep it small/managable
- Know what you can and can't do
- Don't be afraid to learn the stuff you can't do

Doing all of this, it's important to stay persistent. You can be as dumb as a bag of rocks, as long as you are persistent.
I should know. I speak from experience.
 

Curratum

Guest
Why is this being made by one person and why the fuck does it look 10 times better in both art direction and general graphical fidelity / quality than Underworld Ascendant, which is being made by "industry veterans"? :(

Oh, wait, it won't have the "incredible emergent gameplay and interconncted systems" bullshit Tim Stellmach discovered up his own arsehole.

Godspeed, RatTower, I'll be all over than thing when it's done!
 

Curratum

Guest
I mean, goddamn...

Here are two screenshots. One is a game with a million dollar budget, which likely grew after a publisher was secured, and with an expensive art designer who worked on its "authored art style" for a year. The other is an indie game made by one person. Can you tell which is which?

WHjnyU7.jpg
5rPZYZz.jpg

Sorry for venting in here, but I'm just genuinely impressed by how Monomyth looks so far and the comparison kind of forces itself to be made.
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
468
Funny you'd bring up that picture...

Because that was actually the reference for that scene. I normally try avoiding direct comparison with UA, but I wanted to see whether I could build a similar room with the stuff I have, introducing only slight variations to current materials. It's lacking a bit with regards to small details, which is why I made these:

Cgf914Q.jpg


I should note at this point that I'm not a big fan of lore dumps. So most books will probably be decoration. Unless I find a better use for them.

They are pretty easy to make anyway...

dLKMCKc.png
 
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Curratum

Guest
Funny you'd bring up that picture...

Because that was actually the reference for that scene. I normally try to avoid direct comparison with UA, but I wanted to see whether I could build a similar room with the stuff I have, introducing only slight variations to current materials.

Well, at least your pots cast shadows, huh? :|

I'll see myself out! Once again, great job and best of luck with finishing this project!
 

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