Master of Magic unofficial patch

[b0rsuk]

I really don't like to double post, but some stuff is worth mentioning outside of PM. Things I would like to see (improved):

- wraithform working on ships, causing them to move on water at 1/2 movement point per tile. Very thematic and could make ships genuinely useful.

- AI cheats in combat with Invisibility. Normally, wizards can't cast targeted spells on invisible creatures at all, and heroes/creatures can only target invisible creatures with spells if it's right next to it. But AI cheats. AI knows only two states: either the creature is totally invisible, or totally visible and it can cast everything on it. So if a dark stalker walks up to AI's army, the enemy wizard will be able to cast spells on the stalker. Slingers and other ranged units will be able to shoot it.

- Description of Wall of Darkness says (in Plight) you can't cast targeted spells on units protected by it. However, when I was attacked by 2 magicians, my units were hit by 3 fireballs, 2 of them in the same turn (both magicians)

- speaking of wall of darkness, there are odd behaviours. If I cast Wall of Darkness in first turn, and some units leave the darkness, usually (or always?) enemy priests won't shoot you.

- AI doesn't appear to be able to use priests' healing, at all. Or at least there are some serious anomalies.

- AI is very stupid about using Planar Seal. It's worth fixing because it's a very potent spell. In two games I had my forces split by the seal, once I "lost" my both best heroes, and the other time my Myrran colony got isolated. But AI will keep the Planar Seal on when it protects me more. In my current game my lucrative High Men cities are right next to dwarven realm, but they can't attack me thanks to Planar Seal. The seal is owned by the dwarven player.

 

[kyrub]

- AI cheats in combat with Invisibility...AI knows only two states: either the creature is totally invisible, or totally visible and it can cast everything on it.

Excellent, spot on. Thanks for the point, I will see what can be done.

speaking of wall of darkness, there are odd behaviours.

Wall of darkness is a problematic spell that had some reports of bugs. I will look at it but no promisses.

- AI doesn't appear to be able to use priests' healing, at all.

Hey, I forgot to correct this one! The place is known, but I desperately need a save with enemy priests' stack ready to be tested. There is a whole part of the code missing... Could you provide me with a save, please?

 

[hoverdog]

hey kyrub, any news on the dragonsword site?

 

[kyrub]

Yes.
Bad news and good news.

Bad news: the dragonsword.com site is definitely down and it will most probably stay like this. The owner pulled the plug, did not pay the domain, did not leave a backup. He did not care to inform us before doing so. Grrr. We lost all precious content (discussion) bar the - most important - key files we still have on our hard drives.
:violin:
Good news: We are starting a new forum which will take over the torch. It is a sub-forum on an excellent and steady website for old games and tournament play, on REALMS BEYOND ORION. I will continue my work on the patch there, another group of people are trying to put up a big balancing mod as well. Of course, I will put all news here as well.


So, I invite anybody willing to support a steady MoM site and to contribute to the discussion about this evegreen game: to support the idea of MoM forum on the site.

We gather a few people wanting MoM => the admin gives us the subforum => MoM discussion is back.
The thread for MoM: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4182

 

[b0rsuk]

More 1.40h feedback

Apparently AI does use ships for transport, but very very rarely. It's year 1432, cathedrals everywhere, AI reinforces its army with Sky Drakes. My Myrran colony is attacked by a steam cannon, a couple of golems and some dwarven swordsmen.

Other issues:

- I've seen AI cast Enchant Road. On Myrror !

- AI likes to use Disenchant Area to dispel a single Web spell. Because it can.

- There's a bug when dispelling Web. I'm casting it on griffins. Before the unit frees itself, AI dispels it with Disenchant Area. The result: the unit pretends to be a walker (foot symbol), and no flying animation, but my paladins can't attack it.

- I managed to transport griffins with a warship (4 moves). The griffins ended their turn on a warship which was already transporting 3 Berserkers. Ignoring the capacity limit of 3 (I thought it was supposed to be 2 ? I'm not sure), the warship moved with griffins in it.

- Flyers don't benefit from Pathfinding spell on them, but are able to move 4 squares/turn if a land-based pathfinder shows them the way. Works with Rangers.

I'll be posting feedback and issues here until told otherwise.

 

[kyrub]

I'll be posting feedback and issues here until told otherwise.

Please, b0rsuk, let's leave this discussion for the realmsbeyond.net forums. I think it does not belong here in Rpgcodex as it is too one-sided and detailed.
(thanks for remarks and the priests' save)

 

[Alex_K]

One thing that I think would improve the balance of MoM would be to make it impossible to magically buff, transport or heal any unit that has immunity to magic (like Paladins).

While such units could have magical, mithril or adamantine weapons and armor (and heroes being equipped with magical artifacts) the overland spells of enchantment (except for immunity to magic) would not be useful for those immune to magic.

 

[Malakal]

You mean it IS possible to buff magic immune units? Thats simply wrong. Was that design decision or bug? Cause it doesnt make any sense at all, for game balance nor for lore.

 

[kyrub]

Exactly. It is nice to find other people who share the idea. Magic immunity is one of several really bad MoM concepts.

Still, the Insecticide project is all about removing bugs without changing the content. If you start with 'obvious' changes in MoM, there are no limits to stop.


On the other side, there's a fan-made project (named Catnip), that tries to change various game aspects and mechanics, on realmsbeyond forums. I perfrom some assisting work in it.

 

[Malakal]

Magic Immunity in a game called Master of *Magic* should not be present or easy to achieve. I cant even begin to imagine why anyone would include it in the first place, at best it should be granted by rare artifacts not for units just built. And allowing buffs? Its so wrong...

But of course You only want to fix what is broken by bugs and well I respect that. Many modders go too far.

 

[kyrub]

I always thought Magic immunity should be more: Magic shield (against magic ranged attacks) or Magic protection (against magic spells up to certain rarity level). Never both.

------------
Mods (a pamphlet)

My dislike for mods has grown to enormous dimensions. There's a lot of hope each time someone makes a big mod or a new clone (modding platform). But is the hope justified? How many really good mods (that can be considered equal to a new game experience) one can find? More than often the games disappear under a ton of options and, for all their cool-ness and versatility, nobody seems to play them. And clones? They come in two types: unfinished or boring.

The worst examples of modding are HoMM WoG and (don't stone me) JA 2 1.13. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of undeniable effort in there which, in parts, is great. But sum of great parts is not equal to greatness. At the end, the community does not hold together to create a meaningful ensemble. We have a mess of features and a group of people who can't share their game experience, because every one of them plays with very different rules.

OK, I haven't played FFH, which, they say, is excellent. But I heard it was created (directed) by 1 guy. So it sidesteps the basic ideology of mods: everybody can have his favourite ingredients in the game. Maybe that is why it is (reportedly) so good?


In my country, we have a children story about two friends (cat and dog) making a cake and putting in, what each of them likes the best. There goes a mice, pudding, a bone, marmelade... The result cannot be eaten without severe health risks. - A story of modding in short.

 

[kyrub]

Yeah, you guessed right. It just does not stop.

Version 1.40i
Several things are now better.
Animate dead should work, many bugs in Dispel routines are corrected, to name a few.
The world creation is swift. And you will finally see Demons and Werewolves in the lairs. AI units don't blindly bump into you... And much more, check the changelog.

The Insecticide thread:
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4211

Enjoy!

 

[Trash]

Awesome. I stopped reading this when you proclaimed your 'retirement' and now I return to this? Great!

 

[MetalCraze]

so kyrub is fighting the good fight with his code

 

[DakaSha]

I started playing with this patch and noticed that after casting giant strength on a unit during combat the unit came out of combat still "wearing" the spell.

this is a bug isn't it? I haven't played MoM for about 10 years but even the spell descriptions show 2 different costs.. and I'm assuming the lower one is for a temp battle buff and the higher for a permanent world buff

edit: also lets see something like this for moo2.. at least AI fixes
yes i know one exists for moo1.. you can argue about which game is better but i just enjoy moo2 more

 

[kyrub]

I started playing with this patch and noticed that after casting giant strength on a unit during combat the unit came out of combat still "wearing" the spell.

That's really strange. WHat exactly happened in the combat? Did AI try to dispel it from you?

 

[DakaSha]

Hmm actually good call.. the enemy did cast dispel and dispelled one of the other buffs on that unit.. I cant remember what it was but i think it was a nature defensive buff
It could have also been the other way around (dispelled strength buff and defensive buff was still on after battle)
I'm 99.9999% this all happened the way I say though so im pretty sure its a bug

edit: i actually still have the save from before the battle. I tried it again and didnt get the bug but the enemy didnt try to dispell anything either

 

[kyrub]

I've looked at the code. While I don't see what went wrong in your case exactly, I've noticed a mistake of mine in the dispelling process correction. I have been over-zealous, it seems.

Could you PM me the savegame location? Plus, do you have another save from after the battle to see the exact effects? Thanks for feedback, DakaSha.

 

[DakaSha]

Sorry I didn't save after the battle. I think i'll start a new game now. If it happens again ill make sure to save

 

[kyrub]

version 1.40j

Major instability correction. Apologies for the needless error in the last version.
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4211


-------------


If anybody's interested, there's a small community working on a redesigned MoM on RBO forums, with plans to introduce an external AI program and cut out the rough edges of the game (useless spells, feable creatures, broken concepts). It may even lead into something meaningful.

 

[Ruprekt]

Downloaded

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Fantastic, it keeps getting better.

Do Emperors of the Fading Sun after and you'll be a legend forever.

 

[danish]

Great job keep it up!

I was just curious, are you a programmer or is this just your hobby?
Also have you played star wars rebellion? It offers multiplayer which is great although the original AI sucks. Maybe you could improve it.
Anyhow, good job and keep it up.

 

[Ruprekt]

Rebellion is probably the worst kind of game for AI?

Complex (huge number of possible moves) and the whole premise is imperfect information.

 

[Malakal]

AI can always cheat, players wont be angry unless its very obvious...