KickStarter Fig - a new equity-based crowdfunding platform - shut down, RIP

[DarkUnderlord]

DarkUnderlord should totally inquire into this sometime. Investing in RPGs won't make anybody a millionaire but it could develop into a nice supplementary revenue stream. Eventually we might even be able pay people their investments back before a crowdfunded game is even out, using the dividends from previously released games.

So the next fundraiser (don't lie, you'll all put your $10 in):

This investment opportunity is a great way to show your support for the game and share in the net revenue of potential game sales on certain PC platforms, pursuant to the full terms of the offering, which we can share with Accredited Investors.

To participate as an investor:

You must be an Accredited Investor and be able to provide information to verify your status
You must invest a minimum of $1,000 USD
If this sounds good to you so far, click the Continue button to learn more.​

The investor link is to the American SEC:

An "accredited investor" is:

a bank, insurance company, registered investment company, business development company, or small business investment company;​

Technically, despite being an Australian company, I suspect the Codex would qualify as any investment would be done through GME.

There'd be a few major issues:

1. Income generated would presumably be earned in America, which would just make some fun for the Accountant.

2. I'm not sure how we could promise to return money to anyone who donated to the Codex. Effectively we're acting as some kind of investor agent (donate to the Codex drive for XYZ and you'll get... your money back? Return on profit? Paid when?) and there may be legislative issues around that. Short version is, I'll have to add it to the list of things I need to discuss with the lawyer - which may be difficult as FIG is based in America, and may mean American registration / conditions.

We'll likely have issues around the Australian Corporations Act too. As we're "raising money", and the minute you get more than X shareholders (depending on how those investors are defined), you have to become a public company in Australia, which means a lot of overheads, expense and hassle (I've done it before, so it's not "undoable" but it will mean a lot more money being required to make it viable (As in, tens of thousands, not just a few thousand).

And in the same way that they've buried "further information" behind a few registration screens, I may be limited in terms of what I can say publicly, even if we are doing a fundraiser.

3. Back to point 1, assuming we can overcome those hurdles, quite what that pay-out means for everyone's individual tax returns is a whole different kettle of fish.

I'll look into it, but I suspect it'll be "too hard". More do-able might be a "buy XYZ from the Codex" and we put funds towards the game or a "we promise to give you X at date Y if target Z is reached".

 

[Infinitron]

2. I'm not sure how we could promise to return money to anyone who donated to the Codex.

I was thinking just "push the refund button on PayPal", but I suppose it's quite likely not that simple.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I was thinking just "push the refund button on PayPal", but I suppose it's quite likely not that simple.

It depends on what we're offering. I used to do this stuff for years and the rules are pretty strict. We could potentially do a "KickStarter" as normal, in that people "donate" as per usual (IE: Buy a copy of the game / whatever) and any "investment returns" are held by the Codex. Simply because returning monies / paying dividends / however we end up trying to make this work, has a whole fuck tonne of legislation and documentation behind it which I then need to make every "investor" aware of (Think getting every "donor" to sign PDF legal agreements for their $10 and an Annual General Meeting for the Codex).

That said, from what I'm reading, there's effectively nothing stopping me from "investing" funds from the Codex right now. The main issue will be raising further funds specifically for an "investment" with an expected ROI.

Hell, even looking at the project there now, I'm not sure what I'd be legally allowed to reproduce here as it's behind various walls of registration (for legislative reasons under the American SEC).

 

[J_C]

So the next fundraiser (don't lie, you'll all put your $10 in):

This investment opportunity is a great way to show your support for the game and share in the net revenue of potential game sales on certain PC platforms, pursuant to the full terms of the offering, which we can share with Accredited Investors.

To participate as an investor:

You must be an Accredited Investor and be able to provide information to verify your status
You must invest a minimum of $1,000 USD
If this sounds good to you so far, click the Continue button to learn more.​

The investor link is to the American SEC:

An "accredited investor" is:

a bank, insurance company, registered investment company, business development company, or small business investment company;​

Technically, despite being an Australian company, I suspect the Codex would qualify as any investment would be done through GME.

There'd be a few major issues:

1. Income generated would presumably be earned in America, which would just make some fun for the Accountant.

2. I'm not sure how we could promise to return money to anyone who donated to the Codex. Effectively we're acting as some kind of investor agent (donate to the Codex drive for XYZ and you'll get... your money back? Return on profit? Paid when?) and there may be legislative issues around that. Short version is, I'll have to add it to the list of things I need to discuss with the lawyer - which may be difficult as FIG is based in America, and may mean American registration / conditions.

We'll likely have issues around the Australian Corporations Act too. As we're "raising money", and the minute you get more than X shareholders (depending on how those investors are defined), you have to become a public company in Australia, which means a lot of overheads, expense and hassle (I've done it before, so it's not "undoable" but it will mean a lot more money being required to make it viable (As in, tens of thousands, not just a few thousand).

And in the same way that they've buried "further information" behind a few registration screens, I may be limited in terms of what I can say publicly, even if we are doing a fundraiser.

3. Back to point 1, assuming we can overcome those hurdles, quite what that pay-out means for everyone's individual tax returns is a whole different kettle of fish.

I'll look into it, but I suspect it'll be "too hard". More do-able might be a "buy XYZ from the Codex" and we put funds towards the game or a "we promise to give you X at date Y if target Z is reached".

Actually what I was thinking is to use the profit on the Codex (server upkeep, improvements) and not giving it back to the users.

 

[Jaedar]

Returning money to the codexers who put into the kickstarter for a copy of the game might not be feasible but the money the codex could get back could still be useful.

Server upgrades, ad removal, increasing future kickstarters by matching x% of everyone elses donations, shit like that.

 

[Immortal]

ad removal

 

[taxalot]

I am still trying to figure out if you guys are serious about this shit.

 

[JamesDixon]

My concern is not about RPG Codex being in compliance, but rather if Fig is in compliance with the SEC. From the comments alone in this thread would make me wary of dealing with Fig.

EDIT: Looking at their web page it appears that they are in compliance with the SEC.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

an Annual General Meeting for the Codex

That definitely sounds like something we'd want to do.

 

[Morblot]

Could you make that smaller, please?

Ah, the dangers of posting "funny" and "relevant" pictures with a phone at 4 AM while lying half asleep in bed...

Anyway, Fig sucks dick.

 

[Talby]

Sounds like it could be a good ide

Tim Schafer

NOPE

 

[StaticSpine]

Actually, it's not a bad idea - to motivate backers with potential profit.

But taking shady characters on board...

 

[LESS T_T]

Huhhh: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-08-20-investors-go-wild-for-new-funding-platform-fig

Investors go wild for new funding platform Fig

$500,000 of backing for Outer Wilds within two days of launch

It's been just two days since we reported on the launch of Fig, a new crowdfunding platform created specifically for the games industry and headed up by former Double Fine COO Justin Bailey, but it's already attracted a massive $500,000 from investors for its first project, The Outer Wilds.

"The investment interest we're seeing is far exceeding our expectations," Bailey told GamesIndustry.biz this morning.

"Right now we have over half a million dollars of expressed interest to invest into Outer Wilds. We're currently vetting that amount, going through it with the investors. We're actually having discussions with Mobius Digital about taking on investment; right now they've capped investment at $50,000 which we already have. Obviously we have ten times more than that lined up."

Investors had offered $250,000 by the end of the first day, a total that rose to $500,000 by the end of the second and is continuing to climb. And Bailey pointed out that amount is just new interest - Fig already has a network of industry investors lined up but they haven't even tapped into that resource yet.

The Fig advisory team is meeting today to discuss how this huge swell of interest in the investment side could change the platform's road map.

"We've got a lot of data now and we need to sort through it and figure out how we'll be changing things in the future. There's a lot of excitement, I think the message is very, very clear that people are interested in having a financial stake in these games that they're helping fund."

Fig is also seeing a positive reaction from people who want to participate in the more traditional pledge and reward side of the crowdfunding platform. Fig's team was originally concerned that the investment side would put off those pledgers, but Bailey is happy to report that hasn't been the case.

"We've actually found that people who go into the investment flow and check stuff out are four times more likely to actually back and buy a bundle and become a supporter of the game," he said.

Investing through Fig is still limited to accredited investors, but the regulatory procedures are underway that will allow anyone to become a Fig investor. That will only grow the support developers can expect to see.

"It's really exciting to me to think what it's going to be when it's opened up to unaccredited investors as well."

For more on the details of Fig from Bailey check out our launch story here.

 

[Gondolin]

Frankly, I can't even access the Fig website. I think it checks my account balance and acts accordingly.

 

[Infinitron]

Huhhh: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-08-20-investors-go-wild-for-new-funding-platform-fig

I had a feeling they would have something like this set up. This site isn't some ass-pull, they're obviously quite serious about making it work.

 

[StaticSpine]

Huhhh: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-08-20-investors-go-wild-for-new-funding-platform-fig

 

[Chamezero]

this shit is so obvious it hurts
yeah, a surprise, sure...

 

[J_C]

I had a feeling they would have something like this set up. This site isn't some ass-pull, they're obviously quite serious about making it work.

Whaaaat? It won't fail, crash and burn as some Codexers prophesized? Well I'll be...

 

[Chamezero]

I don't know how to read

 

[Farage]

what the fuck did i just watch

 

[HanoverF]

So have over $500,000 from interested investors, meanwhile not even 400 people want to back this thing?

 

[Alienman]

It's probably Notch investing those 500k. He alone could crowdfund every single indie-game til the sun goes out.

 

[ArchAngel]

I watched the pitch video, I don't have a clue who would want to play that game and how it got any rewards. SitS is couple of levels above this game, even with pixel graphics.
When this game is finished and released it is going to burn and fall and lots people are going to lose money and FIG is going to lose any positive reputation it had.

 

[J_C]

I cannot into words.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

It's probably Notch investing those 500k. He alone could crowdfund every single indie-game til the sun goes out.

And god-damn it he should.

Except for the crap ones obv.