BROS SO IT IS GENERALLY AGREED

[Jasede]

Divinity II DKS, actually.

Great game. Referencing xpacs blurs the lines a bit however. Like listing FNV:OWB as FNV for 2011.

The game isn't bad, but it's terribly boring. Maybe just me.

 

[Sul]

I wouldn't call RTWP games action games. No one plays them purely RT anyway.

Action games require player skill, or rather dexterity / muscle memory, something no one needs to play Baldur's Gate or PS:T.

Don't you mean reflex and twitch based skill in the case of Action games while RPGs or other games with focus on strategy requires planning and rational thinking?

God, if people wouldn't be so vague in their posts this topic would be much more shorter.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO GOOD POINT THERE BUT SOMETIMES ACTION GAMES CAN BE SLOWER AND REQUIRE PLANNING AND SOMETHINGS RTS CAN BE MORE TWITCH OR TURN BASED JUST BRUTE FORCE

QUALITY IS THE KEY BROS

 

[Excidium]

I wouldn't call RTWP games action games. No one plays them purely RT anyway.

Action games require player skill, or rather dexterity / muscle memory, something no one needs to play Baldur's Gate or PS:T.

'Require skill' is purely subjective. Require for what? Beating the game? Beating it quickly? Enjoying it? In one attempt? Without grinding?

And how much skill? Is it skillful if I can pause on any round of combat I want in baldur's gate? What if I fuck it up half the time? Is that still skillful? What if I can run around like a complete ass with a ranged weapon and kite things to death? Is that skilled enough to be called skill, or do I need to be able to do that without boots of speed? How about aiming fireballs, what if my aim is so bad I miss targets half the time? What if it's so good I can rape everything with fireballs and never worry about hitting myself, even when they're in melee? Is that not an advantage?

How about my skill at pixel hunting? Does it require skill to find a door that way? How about secret passages? What about that stupid ring of wizardry between the rocks? You can't say the game doesn't require any skill. You can say that clicking on most humanoid creatures doesn't require any skill. You can say that finding some stupid 2 pixel secret does. But the game as a whole has too many variations within it to make such a statement. Same thing with saying that action games are those that 'require skill'. Or dexterity or whatever the fuck you want.

Holy shit son

 

[DraQ]

This. RPG isn't a genre. RPG is defined by an additional layer of mechanics (customizable stats dictating what a character can and cannot do) inserted into another genre and its implications (character having to complete game differently depending on his build).

There is no such thing as pure RPG, because it would consist only of stat screen and possibly inventory and entirety of its gameplay would consist of allocating stat points.

To make it an actual game an RPG has to be hybridized with one or more different genres - a limited TB strategy mechanics makes a game like fallout, a limited RTS mechanics makes IE game, TB or RT maze crawling game like 2nd phase of Platoon on c64 will give you a blobber, FPS will yield Deus Ex or TES.

Pretty much every genre, possibly save for pure strategy (though case can be made for automatically generating units in RPGish manner) and vehicular simulation (though passive attributes like G resistance could potentially be useful) can be potentially improved by turning it into an RPG.

The definition is absolutely vague, but the very basic thing about RPGs is that you use the abilities of your character(s) to interact with the enviroment and solve conflicts, so if you include the player's own skill for parrying attacks or aiming spells, it's already stretching it.

How about using your own intelligence rather than your character's (who may in fact be a retard) to choose tactics?

Do RPGs have to be non-interactive?

 

[crufty]

Dark souls looks like a great platformer with rpg elements.

 

[Excidium]

The definition is absolutely vague, but the very basic thing about RPGs is that you use the abilities of your character(s) to interact with the enviroment and solve conflicts, so if you include the player's own skill for parrying attacks or aiming spells, it's already stretching it.

How about using your own intelligence rather than your character's (who may in fact be a retard) to choose tactics?

Nothing wrong with that. Unless you want to severely reduce player input in the game, but that just wouldn't be fun to play.

Do RPGs have to be non-interactive?

Of course not, besides there's no such thing as a non-interactive game. But ideally the player input should be through deciding how to best use the character abilities, not ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL and doing things manually.

 

[Sul]

BRO GOOD POINT THERE BUT SOMETIMES ACTION GAMES CAN BE SLOWER AND REQUIRE PLANNING AND SOMETHINGS RTS CAN BE MORE TWITCH OR TURN BASED JUST BRUTE FORCE

QUALITY IS THE KEY BROS

Yeah bro, the same for RPGs. Sometimes you can still have a RPG full of stats, dice rolls, planning, strategy and all that shit you see when you play a table-top rpg and at the same time a twitch based gameplay. That wouldn't be a ARPG? RPG mechanics at the core but still dependent of player reflexes to achieve sucess.

 

[BLOBERT]

YEAH BRO I AGREE DARK SOULS IS ARPG

 

[Wyrmlord]

BROS LOLLOLOL WHAT IS AN RPG LOLOLLOLOL

THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DKS AND DS IS THAT ONE HAS MORE DETAILED STORY AND WORSE COMBAT MECHANICS BUT BROS I LOVED BOTH

BROS I DONT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM HERE PCTARDS ONLY PLAY CONSOLE PORTS FOR THE MOST PART THEY SKIP REAL CRPGS LIKE KOTC BECAUSE THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD

Who are these "PCtards" of whom you speak?

You are just doing the usual Skyway nonsense - the Codex is a homogeneous group with the same tastes in everything in your eyes.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Wyrmlord, you're so fucking bland.

Anyway. Yeah, fuck genres anyway. There are some clearly defined ones (an FPS is an FPS, a Grand Strategy Game is a Grand Strategy Game, etc.), most things fit into this nebulous "inbetween". Action games have been increasingly RPGifying themselves, and RPGs have been increasingly Actionifying themselves. Whatever lines there were between the two are so faded now that they barely matter.

On topic, whether Dark Souls is an Action Game or an RPG, it's hands down the best game to come out in the past year, and probably one of the best games I can remember playing in the last 5 years (in fact, outside of Pdox, I can't think of a single game that I would put up against it).

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think we can all agree that the Final Fantasy series is an excellent example of role playing games as the stories are very emotionally engaging and the characters are interesting and complex so you can feel like you are playing their role in the stoueiniufbcsuhybchsa vujgseoveuye

 

[Excidium]

Anyway. Yeah, fuck genres anyway. There are some clearly defined ones (an FPS is an FPS, a Grand Strategy Game is a Grand Strategy Game, etc.), most things fit into this nebulous "inbetween". Action games have been increasingly RPGifying themselves, and RPGs have been increasingly Actionifying themselves. Whatever lines there were between the two are so faded now that they barely matter.

True.

 

[Telengard]

Early D&D was a strategy/wargame - one where you went around beating people up and taking their stuff, and where you had a bunch of henchmen to help you do the beating up, and a bunch of hirelings to help you do the carrying. It wasn't until later that a thin veneer of justification was layered around this core gameplay.

RTwP should probably have been split off into its own full category with it's own name a long time ago. It never really did share much with the RPGs that game before it.

If you can describe a marketed aRPG as an Action game and that fully describes the game, then it's an Action game. If you need the RPG in there to describe it, then it's enough of an RPG to rate as RPG . At least for purposes of declaring pointless awards like Best RPG of the Year.

 

[Syril]

Arguing over the nature of an RPG

What can change the nature of an RPG?

 

[Nael]

Hey guys, I have this great fresh idea. How about discussing what is and isn't RPG for few pages? Won't that be fun.

Seriously though... Someone retardo this shit before someone says anything worth reading. Everyone in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Hey guys, I have this great fresh idea. How about discussing what is and isn't RPG for few pages? Won't that be fun.

Seriously though... Someone retardo this shit before someone says anything worth reading. Everyone in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

Imageshack


FFFFFF Now it works.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Shit just came in from Gamefly. Probably gonna take a break from Raidou 2: Electric Boogaloo to play Dark Souls on the Fagbox. White Rider's been pushing my shit in on King Mode anyhow; better take a break from this with something less crazy.

After action report in a few weeks probably.

 

[PorkaMorka]

This. RPG isn't a genre. RPG is defined by an additional layer of mechanics (customizable stats dictating what a character can and cannot do) inserted into another genre and its implications (character having to complete game differently depending on his build).

There is no such thing as pure RPG, because it would consist only of stat screen and possibly inventory and entirety of its gameplay would consist of allocating stat points.

So think about a pure blobber where you just explore a maze, kill monsters and level up your guys.

What other genre are the RPG mechanics added on to?

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Divinity II DKS, actually.

Great game. Referencing xpacs blurs the lines a bit however. Like listing FNV:OWB as FNV for 2011.

Not only that, but the PC version of DKS came out in 2010. Agree it was very enjoyable, but not in the same league as DS. Blobert is correct, RPG or ARPG - Dark Souls is the best game released this year.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

get REAL- keyboards were used in the 80s because ppl didnt kow about controllers

The 80's... you mean the 1880's right??

Keyboards have been in use, in the exact same layout as they are today (QWERTY - and that layout came about to avoid sticking mechanical TW arms), since 1878.

Edit: You think games from the 1980's look blocky today - you should've seen'em back then.

 

[Captain Shrek]

TW2. It actually brought hard C&C to the table. Granted it was for a single chapter, but it did make you play the game twice.

 

[Luzur]

get REAL- keyboards were used in the 80s because ppl didnt kow about controllers

The 80's... you mean the 1880's right??

Keyboards have been in use, in the exact same layout as they are today (QWERTY - and that layout came about to avoid sticking mechanical TW arms), since 1878.

Edit: You think games from the 1980's look blocky today - you should've seen'em back then.

there where computer keyboards that didnt go QWERTY in the late 70's early 80's (computer childhood), but they where not popular and disappeared quickly.

 

[praetor]

The definition is absolutely vague, but the very basic thing about RPGs is that you use the abilities of your character(s) to interact with the enviroment and solve conflicts, so if you include the player's own skill for parrying attacks or aiming spells, it's already stretching it.

How about using your own intelligence rather than your character's (who may in fact be a retard) to choose tactics?

Nothing wrong with that. Unless you want to severely reduce player input in the game, but that just wouldn't be fun to play.

but it would make it more of an RPG. actually, by your "definition" that's the very basic requirement for it to be an RPG in the first place (so i guess a real, tr00 RPG wouldn't be fun to play)... unless you want to arbitrarily draw a line between dexterity and intelligence (and/or other "attributes") when it comes to player vs character skill because lol or any other just as "valid" reason

 

[MMXI]

The definition is absolutely vague, but the very basic thing about RPGs is that you use the abilities of your character(s) to interact with the enviroment and solve conflicts, so if you include the player's own skill for parrying attacks or aiming spells, it's already stretching it.

How about using your own intelligence rather than your character's (who may in fact be a retard) to choose tactics?

Nothing wrong with that. Unless you want to severely reduce player input in the game, but that just wouldn't be fun to play.

but it would make it more of an RPG. actually, by your "definition" that's the very basic requirement for it to be an RPG in the first place (so i guess a real, tr00 RPG wouldn't be fun to play)... unless you want to arbitrarily draw a line between dexterity and intelligence (and/or other "attributes") when it comes to player vs character skill because lol or any other just as "valid" reason

Nope. An RPG is nothing to do with that. Different RPGs model different statistics. You could play an RPG that doesn't model anything but physical combat stats and it would still be an RPG even if you have to use your intelligence to play the game. The key is that the player has to tell his or her character when and how to apply their stats. Telling your character to swing a sword at an enemy is the direction while the chance to hit, weapon speed, damage and any other relevant stat models the action of swinging the sword. If the game includes an intelligence statistic then you can direct your character to use their intelligence to solve a problem for you (the action). It's a simple concept. The bullshit about nothing being an RPG because everything requires intelligence to play is a complete non-issue.

Problems appear when the player directs his/her character and plays a part in the character's ability to pull off the action (action RPGs). Problems also appear in games that feature actions that don't take into account the character's statistics (adventure elements). Problems also appear in games that make the direction stage time critical (both RTwP and plain old RT RPGs).

So you might have a diverse set of games like Pool of Radiance, Wizardry VI, Might and Magic III, Fallout, Star Trail, The Magic Candle and Temple of Elemental Evil, all of which no doubt do some things wrong (the biggest offender being puzzle solving where puzzle steps aren't character stat dependent), but they are all largely RPGs. You could make a claim that no game is a pure RPG and you'd be spot on, so it's only relevant to compare the ratio of RPG to non-RPG gameplay (if it's worth discussing at all).









In before (the return of) DraQ.