Another Elminage thread! Let's use this thread to talk about all NON-GOTHIC Elminage stuff!

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Does any of the Elminage games & ports have a REAL interface? I swear, even Wizardry I on the Apple II is easier to control than Elminage Gothic on Steam.

Menu Navigator: The Game. Plinkplinkplinkplinkplinkpllink

 

[Eggs is eggs]

It's a classic interface!

It is funny how slavish they are to the classic Wizardry formula that they barely bothered to update a UI that came out almost 40 years ago.

 

[jungl]

The interface in gothic elminage is the worse dungeon crawler interface ever. Older wizardry game ones like wizardry 5 for the snes is more tolerable. The game would be perfect if it came for a emulator so I can speed up encounters and vastly modded interface.

 

[Matador]

The interface in gothic elminage is the worse dungeon crawler interface ever. Older wizardry game ones like wizardry 5 for the snes is more tolerable. The game would be perfect if it came for a emulator so I can speed up encounters and vastly modded interface.

WTF, in SNES Wiz 5 you cant even cycle between characters when managing inventory and spell selecting it's awful.

The interface here it's much better. Elminage is similar to wiz1-3 in SNES with its improved interface compared to 5.

 

[Dorarnae]

The board game in Parthene's 2F is such bullshit. Any way to progress without playing it? It's 100 RNG cruelty and degeneracy LOL.

The problem is I can't skip this dungeon because one of the rings to complete the main quest it's on this floor

you can pay 100k I think at the church to change the rings location....

 

[aweigh]

one way to cheat that puzzle in Parthenes is to use DIOMANTE (Malor) during combat and hope the RNG teleports you beyond whatever part you think is bullshit.

that shit can teleport you up and down floors even.

in any case you only actually need to do the 1st floor puzzle (tarot card paintings) to get the ring in Parthene. just do the tarot puzzle and go up the stairs and the ring is located before having to trigger the 2nd floor puzzle (i.e. joker NPC).

 

[Matador]

Yeah, thanks guys for the help. The ring was in the first floor almost near the dungeon entrance! I forgot the color code, because it was strange to find the ring so close to the beginning so I mistake the colours.

Anyway , 35 hours in this, and having played 20 hours of Elminage Gothic in the past, I can say I like Gothic more. With the exception of the first dungeon, the level design in the dungeons I visited was better, and the dungeons have more features and content, also better atmosphere.

WHen I finish the playthrough of Original, I'm gonna dive straight into Gothic to finish it. These games are addicting as shit once they "click". Great mechanics, customization and replayability. I would say unbeatable by any other game. Only weak spot some bland level design from time to time being explainable by the low budget.

It's a shame the 3Ds Gothic version it's not in English, seems really great. I would kill to play it.

Also reading, Wizardry and gothic threads has been very entertaining and revealing. I feel like I'm in debt with you.

Wiz-like games deserves more popularity and recognition, especially an RPG forum.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

In other Elminage 1 news, if you haven't played any ports of the game since it's original release in 2008, you now have the chance to play it in ENGLISH and on the 3DS! No release date has been announced yet.

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/elminage-original-3ds

 

[Matador]

Well, I having problems with the" final boss?" In Dragon's Fang 9F. I guess I have to get some levels,enchant gear and steal some gear. My party is between level 20 and 29.

The first gear I have stolen are Dragons claws+2 and Demon claws+1 in the tower's first floor for my brawler. He is making now insane damage,like OVERPOWERED. but it's not enough for the final boss and her lackies, becasue they almsot wipe my party always in the first turn.

I love the feature of the monster's book, and I'm proud of that I have searched and stolen the claws for the brawler without external help.

My next objective is get the best katanas for my Samurai and ninja. I have several of the following:

Dancing Katana
Kojima Katana
Aozasa katana

My doubt is which is better. I haven't managed to find a mosnter with better ones in the main game. I know the dancing katanas have the highest damage, and Aozasas the lower. But I don't know if the insane acuracy of the latter is better in the long run, because I'm hitting few hits to the tougher enemies on the tower with dancing katana.

I have also the doubt if there are better options for the ninja before post-game. I have spotted an enemy Ninja with kunais that i think have Long range, but I don't know if it's better to keep him with a good katana and a good dagger.

Anyway great game. Can't wait to immerse into Gothic.

 

[Dorarnae]

Well, I having problems with the" final boss?" In Dragon's Fang 9F. I guess I have to get some levels,enchant gear and steal some gear. My party is between level 20 and 29.

The first gear I have stolen are Dragons claws+2 and Demon claws+1 in the tower's first floor for my brawler. He is making now insane damage,like OVERPOWERED. but it's not enough for the final boss and her lackies, becasue they almsot wipe my party always in the first turn.

I love the feature of the monster's book, and I'm proud of that I have searched and stolen the claws for the brawler without external help.

My next objective is get the best katanas for my Samurai and ninja. I have several of the following:

Dancing Katana
Kojima Katana
Aozasa katana

My doubt is which is better. I haven't managed to find a mosnter with better ones in the main game. I know the dancing katanas have the highest damage, and Aozasas the lower. But I don't know if the insane acuracy of the latter is better in the long run, because I'm hitting few hits to the tougher enemies on the tower with dancing katana.

I have also the doubt if there are better options for the ninja before post-game. I have spotted an enemy Ninja with kunais that i think have Long range, but I don't know if it's better to keep him with a good katana and a good dagger.

Anyway great game. Can't wait to immerse into Gothic.

go steal some phoenix, this will help a lot vs breath attack.

 

[aweigh]

Matador

when in doubt as to what weapon is better do the following:

(open up calc.exe)

add the minimum DMG number to the maximum DMG number
divide result by 2
multiply that result by the number of "hits"/"swings"-per-attack
add the accuracy number to that result

highest resulting numbers make for the best weapons. i still play Elminage games with calc.exe open in a seperate process!

 

[Matador]

Matador

when in doubt as to what weapon is better do the following:

(open up calc.exe)

add the minimum DMG number to the maximum DMG number
divide result by 2
multiply that result by the number of "hits"/"swings"-per-attack
add the accuracy number to that result

highest resulting numbers make for the best weapons. i still play Elminage games with calc.exe open in a seperate process!

Many thanks. Sounds logical.

Weapon Damage = (Average damage per hit * Number of Swings) + Accuracy

The accuracy addition I don't completely understand. Maybe you know the formulas they use for damage calculation.

 

[Matador]

Finally beaten the final boss. Good fight, but I think It would have been easy if I had had one member more with alchemist spells to play shenanigans with the enemies.

i used the one I had to make the enemy focus attacks on my samurai previously buffed with -20 AC by my brawler with cleric spells. My thief/mage and bishop increased enemy Party AC.

The next turn, the alchemist gave all the team infinite range on weapons, I healed the party, and debuffed the enemy AC even more. My ninja was just sitting on the shadows defending waiting for the carnage.

Finally on the 4th turn my front row lead by the brawler killed the enemy priestess, who was healing everyone on previous attempts. And Ryu, the ninja, beautifully beheaded the enemy ninja babe. 4 enemy remaining but the fight was really over for the enemy without healing and Damage.

A giant demon appears. But I kill him easily with Jubei the samurai,Ryu the ninja, and Kyo Kusanagi, the brawler making the final blow. The surviving enemy Lancer waifu keep failing attacks to Jubei, while she waits to be grabbed by the pussy.

Next turn. GG. Wizardry made great again.

 

[Dorarnae]

Finally beaten the final boss. Good fight, but I think It would have been easy if I had had one member more with alchemist spells to play shenanigans with the enemies.

i used the one I had to make the enemy focus attacks on my samurai previously buffed with -20 AC by my brawler with cleric spells. My thief/mage and bishop increased enemy Party AC.

The next turn, the alchemist gave all the team infinite range on weapons, I healed the party, and debuffed the enemy AC even more. My ninja was just sitting on the shadows defending waiting for the carnage.

Finally on the 4th turn my front row lead by the brawler killed the enemy priestess, who was healing everyone on previous attempts. And Ryu, the ninja, beautifully beheaded the enemy ninja babe. 4 enemy remaining but the fight was really over for the enemy without healing and Damage.

A giant demon appears. But I kill him easily with Jubei the samurai,Ryu the ninja, and Kyo Kusanagi, the brawler making the final blow. The surviving enemy Lancer waifu keep failing attacks to Jubei, while she waits to be grabbed by the pussy.

Next turn. GG. Wizardry made great again.

now start the post game and good luck with belial and star gazer group

 

[duanth123]

Finally beaten the final boss. Good fight, but I think It would have been easy if I had had one member more with alchemist spells to play shenanigans with the enemies.

i used the one I had to make the enemy focus attacks on my samurai previously buffed with -20 AC by my brawler with cleric spells. My thief/mage and bishop increased enemy Party AC.

The next turn, the alchemist gave all the team infinite range on weapons, I healed the party, and debuffed the enemy AC even more. My ninja was just sitting on the shadows defending waiting for the carnage.

Finally on the 4th turn my front row lead by the brawler killed the enemy priestess, who was healing everyone on previous attempts. And Ryu, the ninja, beautifully beheaded the enemy ninja babe. 4 enemy remaining but the fight was really over for the enemy without healing and Damage.

A giant demon appears. But I kill him easily with Jubei the samurai,Ryu the ninja, and Kyo Kusanagi, the brawler making the final blow. The surviving enemy Lancer waifu keep failing attacks to Jubei, while she waits to be grabbed by the pussy.

Next turn. GG. Wizardry made great again.

now start the post game and good luck with belial and star gazer group

So how's DT2-2? As compared to DT2?

 

[Dorarnae]

Finally beaten the final boss. Good fight, but I think It would have been easy if I had had one member more with alchemist spells to play shenanigans with the enemies.

i used the one I had to make the enemy focus attacks on my samurai previously buffed with -20 AC by my brawler with cleric spells. My thief/mage and bishop increased enemy Party AC.

The next turn, the alchemist gave all the team infinite range on weapons, I healed the party, and debuffed the enemy AC even more. My ninja was just sitting on the shadows defending waiting for the carnage.

Finally on the 4th turn my front row lead by the brawler killed the enemy priestess, who was healing everyone on previous attempts. And Ryu, the ninja, beautifully beheaded the enemy ninja babe. 4 enemy remaining but the fight was really over for the enemy without healing and Damage.

A giant demon appears. But I kill him easily with Jubei the samurai,Ryu the ninja, and Kyo Kusanagi, the brawler making the final blow. The surviving enemy Lancer waifu keep failing attacks to Jubei, while she waits to be grabbed by the pussy.

Next turn. GG. Wizardry made great again.

now start the post game and good luck with belial and star gazer group

So how's DT2-2? As compared to DT2?

it's alright, pretty much the same thing except they balanced a few things which is nice. the main story is longer.
my only complaint so far, is there no restriction door on the post game(well at least for now). while most people complained about it, I did like trying other class or having to kill a boss with a specific setup(final boss in Toheart2 DT was nice for that).
post game map are quite big, I wonder how many dungeon there is, I am doing the third one now.

 

[Matador]

now start the post game and good luck with belial and star gazer group

I think I'm gonna follow up with Elminage Gothic, and leave Original postgame for summer vacation.

So see you people in Gothic thread.

 

[hackncrazy]

aweigh

I need some help to get acquainted with Elminage Original. As I said in another thread, I never was the type of guy who played turn-based games, since I always thought that they lack strategy and pretty much sum up in mashing attack 90% of the time.

That being said, with all the love that you talk about Wiz and other blobbers, I decided to give a chance to Elminage since I have a PSP here gathering dust.

So, I just started the game and got a 6 party with the following setup: Human Brawler, Werebeast Fighter (I think, don't remember exactly), Samurai (the one that the game gives, I think is Kanosuke), Thief, Bishop and Mage. Is that a viable party to get far into the game or should I scrap everything and do something different?

- I understand that the game appears to be a bit cryptic. For example, there is one attribute called PIE that I think is Piety. What does it do?

- Something I didn`t understand while I was creating the chars is that the age seems to have some effect on them. But what is the effect?

- I`m somewhat used to systems where your casters have HP but I realized that the casters here have a fixed number of magic they can use. How do I recharge it? The only way is coming back to Town?

- The king gave me some items that I should merge using the necromancer, but I enter the necro`s shop and couldn`t do it. What I`m doing wrong here?

Any other beginner tips that you think will fit here is extremely welcome.

Also, since I saw that other people here finished the game already, any help from Matador , Dorarnae , and any other one willing to help.

That will be/ it`s being my first bloober, so you can talk like I`m a retadred because I don`t understand the first thing about its systems.

Edit: I remember reading here and there about multiclassing. How does it work and is that something I`ll have access soon enough or I can leave to learn later?

Also, I have some money to spend on a Vita game and I`m willing to get a blobber. Which one should I get? Demon Gaze or Dungeon Travelers?

Edit 2: Ok, now I've played a couple of hours and almost cleared the first floor of the dungeon. Here are some thoughts:

- Even though the combat so far is pretty much "Mash attack to win" there are some nice details, like enemies 100% resistent to physical attacks that makes you use different strategies (at this point any magic is good) and such. I hope things get harder as I advance.

- I think that the Fighter that I've made was somehow shitty, because I was comparing it with the Fighter that the game gives and it was incredible weaker, so I traded it by the premade.

- There's probably something wrong with the Brawler as well. So far the only thing he can use to attack is a bandage. Should I make something different here?

- The only way so far that I know of recharging magics is going to town. I wonder if there's a different solution;

- My brawler equipped a cursed robe (I had identified it before, I thought the curse would appear but it didn't) and know I have to spend 5k to uncurse it, so he'll be using this for a long time;

 

[Haplo]

I've only played Elminage Gothic, but I suppose the systems are similar enough that I can provide at least a partial answer.
The party doesn't sound bad. But I think you need a healer in there. Either a cleric or a secondary healer like Valkyrie or Lord. Bishop will learn cleric spells... eventually... but wayyy too slooow and wayyy too late.
Also in Gothic an Alchemist could be pretty important, not sure about Original.

Magic recharge is mainly trough town visits, yeah. Other options include a 7-th circle mage spell which costs a level to cast and (if its the same as Gothic) certain herbal potions, which can be prepared by the Servant/Herbalist using a rare herb.
Piety governs the effectiveness of cleric magic. Including healing and ressurection effectiveness.
And yeah, Brawler gear can be rather rare and avialable late. Some cursed Brawler weapons can be stolen from enemies - after level 26 though, when the Thief gets that ability. Doesn't mean his damage will be necesarily bad.

As for multiclassing, the only thing that really carries over are known spell levels. If the new class doesn't have regular access to these spells, a multiclass character gets 3 spell slots per known spell level (instead of 9 for a proficient class). Also stats reset to base racial levels (very low).
In practice there are 3 reasons to multiclass:
1. Desire to pick an advanced class, like the Lord or Ninja, which are otherwise very difficult to roll on character creation. On each level up you gain or lose some attribute points, so after a few level-ups your chars may qualify for classes they previously had no access to (note their attributes will reset to racial minimums on class change). It's good to plan this ahead and choose a stat spread favourable for your future planned class.
2. Magic diversification. To branch out and learn any magic or know several magic disciplines.
3. Accelerate learning of magic. Specialized classes learn magic much faster then hybrid classes. Bishop is particularly slow. a Mage/Cleric/Bishop multiclass will need half the experience to have aceess to all mage and all cleric spells compared to a pure Bishop.
But it may even make sense to do a Cleric -> Lord/Valkyrie or Mage -> Samurai/Bard multiclass. In this case the difference is much smaller, but may still be worth it for faster access to critical spells like Diomente.

 

[Dorarnae]

for race, werebeast have an innate 20% poison when attacking, works well with brawler or hunter
devilish can equip cursed item, so they're good for brawler since most of their gear will be cursed.
dragonewt has breath skill, dmg depend on the hp you have, works well with class that get high hp(fighter,cleric,valk,lord).

age affect the number of points you roll when creating a char, I am not too sure how it works in original since I often roll young character and age doesn't increase much compared to gothic. but in gothic if you're too old, you'll lose vitality and when you reach 0 vitality your char permanently die...

the items the king give, you need an alchemist to merge them at the inn alchemy lab.

those ennemies who are imune to physical are ghost type monster. shaman can hit them because their weapon are special...some other weapon can hit them too (or with crafting you can change some properties)

as for vita crawler, if you dont mind some fan service I'd go with dungeon travelers 2 it requires more thinking than demon gaze I guess. I mean demon gaze you can repeat and fast foward most fight (which is why they call it hack&slash I guess in their trailer) it's not a 'bad' game but with DT2-2 you won't be able to mash fight, even normal battle can be challenging sometime...

at 13:21 hehe

 

[Matador]

hackncrazy

- You need more healing in your party. I would say that starting with a cleric is a necessary thing. The only starting obligatory party member IMO.

- You need at least 2 characters with healing abilities, even without powergaming. If you don't like clerics, you can multiclass one later to Lord (must be Good male). Your bishop eventually will have all clerics spells, but slowly. A pure valkyrie is a good option, good fighter with cleric spells and can atack form back row.

- Characters age, and when they are older the chance that you can't resurrect them is higher.

- If you have a Vita, I think the best crawler aside form Elminage is Sword on stranger city. Demon Gaze is good and has some similarities, but the former is a improved iteration on the formula form the same developers. Better art and party building among other things.

- Brawler is godlike, but limited in his weapon selection. He can equip fist weapons like the bandages, and claws. Later you will get some good claw drops, and when your thief is level 26, you can start stealing amazing monsters weapons. Be careful, because this weapons are usually cursed,so uncurse them with alchemist, or make a devilish brawler (they don't care about cursed items).
So try to steal some demon and Dragon Claws, and kneel and worship before absolute POWER. Punch, kick, shoryuken!, Super, Death in one combo.

- I recommend you to change you fighter later to a ninja. When he has some levels and some good HP. Let him behead everything on sight.

- Another clear weakness in your party is that 3 guys doesn't know any spells. That's too much. I finished the game with 5 casting characters, maybe you could get away with 4 casters. I solved this by starting my brawler as cleric, and when he had all cleric spells I changed him to brawler, to start punching motherfuckers. And my thief started as a mage, so she could do something in combat before level 26.

- Other recommendation is Alchemist, his spells are RIDICULOUS, and he can craft items.

 

[Haplo]

dragonewt has breath skill, dmg depend on the hp you have, works well with class that get high hp(fighter,cleric,valk,lord).

That's the common interpretation. And sure, a dragonnewt fighter will be godly due to the very high racial Strenght max (though will act late in turn order due to low Agi). But I wouldn't make a dragonnewt Lord or Valkyrie due to the very low racial Piety.
My primary candidates for Dragonnewt are the fairly "passive" classes, with little to no reliance on casting stats, such as the Alchemist or Summoner. At least as dragonnewt they have a nice offensive option to use in every encounter. Sure, I know Alchemist gets Pomedoon at level 1, which is simply a breath attack spell (damage scales according to HP)... but the spell slots are limited and worth conserving. Before end game all chars will have the breath attack damage capped anyway, I think (max is 200).

those ennemies who are imune to physical are ghost type monster. shaman can hit them because their weapon are special...some other weapon can hit them too (or with crafting you can change some properties)

If its the same as Gothic, a Valkyrie can hit ghosts as well. Plus there's a low level cleric spell which lets everyone hit them.

 

[Haplo]

- I recommend you to change you fighter later to a ninja. When he has some levels and some good HP. Let him behead everything on sight.

Eh, don't know about this. Sure beheading is great, but some enemies are resistant. As a fighter he will have access to much better weapons, have much higher attack rating and do a ton more damage. I'd say better multiclass options for fighters are Valkyrie (female neutral, preferably with race with good Piety max), Samurai (nonevil, preferably race with good Int max) or Lord (male good, preferably race with good Piety max). But a fighter will outdamage every other class, maybe except Brawler. And maybe Valkyrie, depending on gear available in Original (they get some sick stuff in Gothic and eventually can dual wield spears).
Probably the Thief is the better Ninja candidate... although late game Thief stealing monster weapons would be a good fit to his Brawler. And the Thief is more effective at trap disarming/finding secrets.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Also, I have some money to spend on a Vita game and I`m willing to get a blobber. Which one should I get? Demon Gaze or Dungeon Travelers?

I'm seconding Dorarnae. Get DT2, it's so far the best Dungeon Crawler for Vita IMHO (not counting PSP games) as long as you can look past the obvious fan service.

 

[hackncrazy]

Thank you guys for all the help!

I'm gonna try to answer all of you in one post and say some other things I'm figuring:

Haplo Dorarnae Matador Emmanuel2

Thanks for the explanation about multiclassing and how the magic recharging works. I thought that the Brawler would be a good for nothing class, but since you're saying that he will get good gear and be a punching machine later, I'll keep going with it. Since all of you are saying that a healer is necesssary character, I'll try to go with one of them at this point (I wanted 2, but there will be no place for it, since I'll try to get a Valkyrie on my party as well). I'll make an alchemist as well just to merge the items the king gave me. Changing my fighter to a ninja is something that I was planning from the start (in fact I tried to get a ninja at the beginning, but I couldn't and you'll understand why in the final questions).

Even though, after reading Haplo's answer to Matador I'm doubting that changing him into a ninja is the best option here. Maybe I'll get rid of my Samurai and turn the fighter into a Samurai later, opening a spot for another caster on my group.


Also, is good to know in general how the multiclassing works, even though it seems that will take quite some time for me to get around to play with it.


The truth is, you guys opened up my mind so much that I'm almost making two different parties to try and experiment the different things (more healers, shaman, alchemist, devilish werebeast, valkyrie etc).


Finally, I think I'm getting DT2 for Vita then. I don't mind fanservice as long as the gameplay part is good enough to keep me going.


A few other questions I remember:

- At this point, the only way for me to go back to town is by, well, walking out of the dungeon. I imagine that later I'll have better options to do this, right?

- Just for testing, I created a character with a EV alignment to make him a Ninja but I couldn't use him in my party. I imagine that's because the rest of them are good, am I correct? Are there other implications on gameplay from the alignments?

- Is it a good strategy to have 7 or 8 viable characters and keep swapping them from dungeon to dungeon or the best option is to make a 6 strong always there team?

- The thief is absolutely necessary for the party, right? (stealing good items later, opening chests, sensing hidden doors). I look at the party and he looks like he's the most useless of the bunch, but if he'll be very important later, I'll keep going with it.

- I thought that a healer wasn't even necessary in the party since the healing potions are incredibly cheap. So, everytime I'm getting low HP I heal the char with the potion. Since my AC is fairly good at this point (5 for all, the best is -10, right?), I thought I would keep going this way.


And finally, I think I'm understanding the great appeal for the blobbers at this point. I'm very used to action/souls games in which the fight is everything that matter. So, you'll have to learn how to dodge, when to attack, etc. In the blobbers, it seems to me that even though, as I said, at this point everything is just mash X to win, I'll get to stronger enemies and they'll demand something that my popamoles doesnt: preparation. It appears that having a well built party, with characters having useful skills/abilities and complementing each other is much more important than what you do in the fight per se (of course, as I said, that's my vision from a newbie. I imagine that later on not only the preparation will be from the utmost importance but the right decisions when fighting will have a bigger participation in this as well).