hackncrazy
Savant
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2015
- Messages
- 415
Wow, thanks a lot for the list! I'm gonna look for them!
-
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Another Elminage thread! Let's use this thread to talk about all NON-GOTHIC Elminage stuff!
- Thread starter aweigh
- Start date
bataille
Do you have any questions? I'd be more than happy to answer them. As for a FAQ/Wiki all of us here on the Codex simply use the Google-translated japanese wiki:
- https://translate.google.com.pr/tra.../spoiler.sakura.ne.jp/srv/el1psp/&prev=search
BTW, all classes learn new abilities/skills upon reaching a specific level (for basic classes it's level 23, for intermediate classes it's level 26 and for elite classes it's level 32).
The Alchemist would've learnt High Purity Synthesis ability on level 23 along with Alchemy Magic POWER UP+ which really makes a huge difference for their buffs/debuffs; but the Synthesis ability is the one you want because it makes the Alchemist squeeze out extra "AP" points from Ores as they continue to level up; by the time that Alc is level 50 and onwards low-point Ores suddenly become extremely good due to the increase in points.
There is no necessary combination of classes, btw, especially in elminage: Original which is extremely forgiving and offers many items which allow changing classes. I recommend using the item "Ruby Shoes" on your Servant and changing him/her to Cleric (using items to change classes is the best way because the character level is kept the same!).
Although: there is also a shield, I think it's the Bent Shield, which changes only Servants into a Lord so maybe use those Ruby Shoes on someone else (if you want to use them at all, I mean).
BTW, you still did good on that Alc->Bishop change anyway: now you have a Bishop (IMO the one char. one simply can't live without due simply to the convenience of their Identification ability) with access to 3 spell schools. That's very smart on your part.
I recommend changing that Cleric (what you call Priest) into your new party Alchemist (if you want).
Lastly, Having a Fighter, a Brawler and a Hunter makes for some serious offenssive power but you could change that Hunter into a Thief and fill the same role the Hunter is currently filling in your party except with the granted benefit of your new Thief learning the skills for Removing Equipment and Stealing Items/Equipment from enemies upon reaching level 23.
That Fighter I recommend either keeping him "pure", or changing him/her to a Lord. UNLESS you decide to use the Bent Shield to change your Servant to a Lord, in which case then change that Fighter to a Samurai or a Ninja.
If nothing else the jap-wiki link I posted is good for checking a list of which items have the SP property to change into a new class. BTW, Brawlers' best equipment is only gotten via stealing it off end-game enemies using your Thief.
Do you have any questions? I'd be more than happy to answer them. As for a FAQ/Wiki all of us here on the Codex simply use the Google-translated japanese wiki:
- https://translate.google.com.pr/tra.../spoiler.sakura.ne.jp/srv/el1psp/&prev=search
BTW, all classes learn new abilities/skills upon reaching a specific level (for basic classes it's level 23, for intermediate classes it's level 26 and for elite classes it's level 32).
The Alchemist would've learnt High Purity Synthesis ability on level 23 along with Alchemy Magic POWER UP+ which really makes a huge difference for their buffs/debuffs; but the Synthesis ability is the one you want because it makes the Alchemist squeeze out extra "AP" points from Ores as they continue to level up; by the time that Alc is level 50 and onwards low-point Ores suddenly become extremely good due to the increase in points.
There is no necessary combination of classes, btw, especially in elminage: Original which is extremely forgiving and offers many items which allow changing classes. I recommend using the item "Ruby Shoes" on your Servant and changing him/her to Cleric (using items to change classes is the best way because the character level is kept the same!).
Although: there is also a shield, I think it's the Bent Shield, which changes only Servants into a Lord so maybe use those Ruby Shoes on someone else (if you want to use them at all, I mean).
BTW, you still did good on that Alc->Bishop change anyway: now you have a Bishop (IMO the one char. one simply can't live without due simply to the convenience of their Identification ability) with access to 3 spell schools. That's very smart on your part.
I recommend changing that Cleric (what you call Priest) into your new party Alchemist (if you want).
Lastly, Having a Fighter, a Brawler and a Hunter makes for some serious offenssive power but you could change that Hunter into a Thief and fill the same role the Hunter is currently filling in your party except with the granted benefit of your new Thief learning the skills for Removing Equipment and Stealing Items/Equipment from enemies upon reaching level 23.
That Fighter I recommend either keeping him "pure", or changing him/her to a Lord. UNLESS you decide to use the Bent Shield to change your Servant to a Lord, in which case then change that Fighter to a Samurai or a Ninja.
If nothing else the jap-wiki link I posted is good for checking a list of which items have the SP property to change into a new class. BTW, Brawlers' best equipment is only gotten via stealing it off end-game enemies using your Thief.
Eggs is eggs
Learned
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 256
I know this is an Elminage/Wizardry thread but do people have recommendations for first person games that are more like Might and Magic and focus on exploration and discovery rather than combat? Obviously the might and magic games are one, I would put Lands of Lore 1 as another example of a good, but not combat heavy and grinding 1st person RPG.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2016
- Messages
- 1,643
So I started this game yesterday. Having played a couple of dungeons of Elminage gothic in the past, and with some insight from gamefaqs, I think I made a better team this time.
Front Row:
- Neutral Dracon fighter, he will be Samurai. Having breath attacks on early- mid game it's invaluable in any post 6 wizardry game. Like the weaboo I am, I want a samurai on my party, and I read that they are a great class, with high damage in adition of spellcasting. He is destroying everything with flamberge in second dungeon.
- Evil Devilish cleric, he will be brawler. This type of games need dedicate healing, and I like to include monks in every RPG I play. I love the concept of just punching monsters into oblivion. Having healing spells fits with the Monk role in a lot of games like FFT, and it's very useful for a non casting class. At this time he is not dealing almost any damage withe mace, but he is being useful with the priest spells, and can resist on the front row with some armor.
- Evil werewolf thief, made him a ninja at level 8. It's impossible to play this game without thieving skills, and ninja it's my favourite class, due to cool beheading mechanic. Nothing more satisfying that instakilling 2 high HP enemies in a tough encounter, like last night in the forest. While it gain levels and natural AC I equipped hime with chain mail. katana, and offhand japanese weapon.
Back row:
- Neutral Elf Alchemist. I thought to make him bishop in the future, but honestly I will keep him innocent. I remember in Gothic the alch spells impressed me a lot. Like a SMT player, I love all those party buffs, and how POWERFUL they are.
- Neutral Human Mage. I'm debating myself between make her a Samurai, or a thief. I read that thiefs can steal great equipment in late game, and with some mage spells she can be even more useful. A Samurai would have more offensive output, and the ninja oculd go back row. I think i will take the risk and change into thief. I don't like the spells as much as the alch ones, but I think I will need the teleport spell in the future, and some AOE damage is always great.
- Evil Human Bishop. Will keep her innocent.The inventory slots are very limited in this game, and having the ability to identify and drop junk loot on the go is very useful. Also my cleric and mage will lose spell points changing them into brawler and thief, so It will be nice to have a guy with losts of spellpoints in both schools. I thought also to class change in to Lord, but I think I won't do it.
I'm intrigued by summoner, shaman and hunter, but this game has a lot of options. I think I will make a team with them in the future in Gothic.
Overall this game is exciting from a party building perspective, and the encounters are much better and challenging than Stranger of sword city. That game has too much HP bloat for trash encounters, with too many enemies in them, giving almost no EXP in hard mode and not enough challenging regular encounters. I'd wish they rebalanced those aspects.
This game with SOSC presentation and graphics would be a dream.
Front Row:
- Neutral Dracon fighter, he will be Samurai. Having breath attacks on early- mid game it's invaluable in any post 6 wizardry game. Like the weaboo I am, I want a samurai on my party, and I read that they are a great class, with high damage in adition of spellcasting. He is destroying everything with flamberge in second dungeon.
- Evil Devilish cleric, he will be brawler. This type of games need dedicate healing, and I like to include monks in every RPG I play. I love the concept of just punching monsters into oblivion. Having healing spells fits with the Monk role in a lot of games like FFT, and it's very useful for a non casting class. At this time he is not dealing almost any damage withe mace, but he is being useful with the priest spells, and can resist on the front row with some armor.
- Evil werewolf thief, made him a ninja at level 8. It's impossible to play this game without thieving skills, and ninja it's my favourite class, due to cool beheading mechanic. Nothing more satisfying that instakilling 2 high HP enemies in a tough encounter, like last night in the forest. While it gain levels and natural AC I equipped hime with chain mail. katana, and offhand japanese weapon.
Back row:
- Neutral Elf Alchemist. I thought to make him bishop in the future, but honestly I will keep him innocent. I remember in Gothic the alch spells impressed me a lot. Like a SMT player, I love all those party buffs, and how POWERFUL they are.
- Neutral Human Mage. I'm debating myself between make her a Samurai, or a thief. I read that thiefs can steal great equipment in late game, and with some mage spells she can be even more useful. A Samurai would have more offensive output, and the ninja oculd go back row. I think i will take the risk and change into thief. I don't like the spells as much as the alch ones, but I think I will need the teleport spell in the future, and some AOE damage is always great.
- Evil Human Bishop. Will keep her innocent.The inventory slots are very limited in this game, and having the ability to identify and drop junk loot on the go is very useful. Also my cleric and mage will lose spell points changing them into brawler and thief, so It will be nice to have a guy with losts of spellpoints in both schools. I thought also to class change in to Lord, but I think I won't do it.
I'm intrigued by summoner, shaman and hunter, but this game has a lot of options. I think I will make a team with them in the future in Gothic.
Overall this game is exciting from a party building perspective, and the encounters are much better and challenging than Stranger of sword city. That game has too much HP bloat for trash encounters, with too many enemies in them, giving almost no EXP in hard mode and not enough challenging regular encounters. I'd wish they rebalanced those aspects.
This game with SOSC presentation and graphics would be a dream.
Emmanuel2
Savant
As far as I've played, Heroes of a broken land is turn-based and focuses on randomized dungeon crawling + resource management. Realms of Arkania is also turn-based albeit it's not first person in fights but rather a top-down tactics one. Unless I'm also mistaken, but having played them both I'm pretty sure about it.
Emmanuel2
hey, what other games do you recommend? always on the lookout for something good. As for HoaBL and the RoA remake... i've only watched "let's play" footage on youtube, enough so to know it didn't really interest me.
...at least, at the time. Tastes/wants/needs are ever-changing. But before I ever play HoaBL or the RoA remaster, I am definitely planning on playing charle's Bard's Tale clone, I think it's called Underworld or Sword and Sorcery: Underworld, something like that.
I watched a lot of gameplay footage on YT and it's a game I'll give a play eventually.
Meanwhile I started a low-key playthrough of Devil's Whiskey (another Bard's Tale clone), but I dropped it because I decided I'm just gonna go play Bard's Tale games instead, as I've never played 'em.
hey, what other games do you recommend? always on the lookout for something good. As for HoaBL and the RoA remake... i've only watched "let's play" footage on youtube, enough so to know it didn't really interest me.
...at least, at the time. Tastes/wants/needs are ever-changing. But before I ever play HoaBL or the RoA remaster, I am definitely planning on playing charle's Bard's Tale clone, I think it's called Underworld or Sword and Sorcery: Underworld, something like that.
I watched a lot of gameplay footage on YT and it's a game I'll give a play eventually.
Meanwhile I started a low-key playthrough of Devil's Whiskey (another Bard's Tale clone), but I dropped it because I decided I'm just gonna go play Bard's Tale games instead, as I've never played 'em.
Celerity
Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,096
Lords of Xulima with Deepest Dark mod.
Matador
it took me several playthroughs (of various elmi games) but I am now a firm believer in the almighty usefulness of pure Clerics.
slap a Dark Seal +1/+2/+3 and a Holy Seal +1/+2/+3 (and, in e: Gothic's final post-game dungeon Ibag's Tower you can get +4 drops and an ultra-rare +5 "Rainbow Charm" that gives 200% to everything)...
...er, anyway, so slap that shit on your Cleric and watch him/her instant-kill over 80% of the game's monster roster, as the way to defend against Cleric's Zeifus and Razeifeus (single-target instant-kill, and the almighty entire-row instant-kill spells respectively) is by having Dark Element attribute defense %, and the only enemies who have that are (appropriately enough) devils, undead, ghosts, gods, and a few giants/beastmen here and there depending on their equipment.
Seriously, if you spec your Cleric specifically to squeeze out the highest possible Dark attribute "attack %" (in elmi: original you can find a Death Staff that will help you out, but it's cursed), once you got that shit past 70% or so those enemies are dying immediately unless they are one of the above-mentioned types.
But, wait, there's more: so if it's devils/ghosts/undead/etc, then that's where you also have that cleric completely blinged out with uber HOLY attribute "attack %", and watch their single-target Holy damage spell "Elnam" completely obliterate those fuckers.
As a final benefit (though this only applies to elmi: gothic where resurrection spells have an extremely high chance of failure) the only char you will be able to count on reliable to not fuck up the resurrection spell mid-battle will be the Priest. Especially in Gothic.
Clerics gain +1 extra attack every 15 lvls, btw, so a high STR cleric with some end-game weaponry (there's a very good cursed cleric spear in elmi: original) can deal some decent damage: but you're not relaly gonna be doing that much, what you'll be having your cleric do is casting instant-death spells or Elnam, or the thing I've yet to mention: Clerics final spell IMMOLORATI.
yes, all chars with divine spell school access get these spells, but only the cleric can cast IMMOLORATI at 100% strength; this spell will utterly decimate bosses, and you combine it with a casting of MIRACLE from another char to replenish everybody's MP's (Immolorati drains all of the cleric's MP when cast) for repeated castings and it is a force of nature.
Bishops cast immolorati at 50%, and valks/lords cast it at 25%. Bishops do not ever gain any extra attacks, btw, neither do alchemists.
it took me several playthroughs (of various elmi games) but I am now a firm believer in the almighty usefulness of pure Clerics.
slap a Dark Seal +1/+2/+3 and a Holy Seal +1/+2/+3 (and, in e: Gothic's final post-game dungeon Ibag's Tower you can get +4 drops and an ultra-rare +5 "Rainbow Charm" that gives 200% to everything)...
...er, anyway, so slap that shit on your Cleric and watch him/her instant-kill over 80% of the game's monster roster, as the way to defend against Cleric's Zeifus and Razeifeus (single-target instant-kill, and the almighty entire-row instant-kill spells respectively) is by having Dark Element attribute defense %, and the only enemies who have that are (appropriately enough) devils, undead, ghosts, gods, and a few giants/beastmen here and there depending on their equipment.
Seriously, if you spec your Cleric specifically to squeeze out the highest possible Dark attribute "attack %" (in elmi: original you can find a Death Staff that will help you out, but it's cursed), once you got that shit past 70% or so those enemies are dying immediately unless they are one of the above-mentioned types.
But, wait, there's more: so if it's devils/ghosts/undead/etc, then that's where you also have that cleric completely blinged out with uber HOLY attribute "attack %", and watch their single-target Holy damage spell "Elnam" completely obliterate those fuckers.
As a final benefit (though this only applies to elmi: gothic where resurrection spells have an extremely high chance of failure) the only char you will be able to count on reliable to not fuck up the resurrection spell mid-battle will be the Priest. Especially in Gothic.
Clerics gain +1 extra attack every 15 lvls, btw, so a high STR cleric with some end-game weaponry (there's a very good cursed cleric spear in elmi: original) can deal some decent damage: but you're not relaly gonna be doing that much, what you'll be having your cleric do is casting instant-death spells or Elnam, or the thing I've yet to mention: Clerics final spell IMMOLORATI.
yes, all chars with divine spell school access get these spells, but only the cleric can cast IMMOLORATI at 100% strength; this spell will utterly decimate bosses, and you combine it with a casting of MIRACLE from another char to replenish everybody's MP's (Immolorati drains all of the cleric's MP when cast) for repeated castings and it is a force of nature.
Bishops cast immolorati at 50%, and valks/lords cast it at 25%. Bishops do not ever gain any extra attacks, btw, neither do alchemists.
Emmanuel2
Savant
Have you tried Demise: Ascension (pricey) or Demise: The Revelation (free)? They're not your traditional turn-based first person dungeon crawler but the dungeons are pretty good so far, grinding is set to max, and difficulty is as hard as steel. I've played only until ~floor 8 of the Revelation it already took a good amount of time to reach that just by solo-ing, I've decided to put it down and just wait to buy Ascension.
Starcrawlers, The Labyrinth of Touhou 2, Rance VI are also off the top of my head. I'm sure you'd like Lords of Xulima too if just for the gameplay, it has more similarities to M&M than Wizardry but the combat nor char mechanics are not as simple.
If you ever get around to getting a Vita or PSTV, I really recommend DT2.
bataille
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,073
What's the downside of cursed items? I accidentally equipped the spear god slayer I'd found randomly in the canyon. Would've uncursed it with ore otherwise.
And if there's none, how do I turn that annoying flashing off?
Somehow I think that I'm going to have to trash it.
And if there's none, how do I turn that annoying flashing off?
Somehow I think that I'm going to have to trash it.
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
It's similar to fear I think, they can skip their turn in combat.
bataille
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,073
Geez, sounds like a deal breaker. Do I understand it correctly that you can only uncurse items if you haven't put it on a non-devilish character? Or is it that the god slayer just happened to be unavailable for forging?
In any case, that sucks; the spear gave my cleric an attack on par with my hunter...
In any case, that sucks; the spear gave my cleric an attack on par with my hunter...
Exact same thing happened to me on my 1st time playing Elmi: Gothic but with a katana called the Neck Chopper that has built-in 25% chance to behead. It's a rare drop in the 4th dungeon (of that game).
Sadly... you lost the spear.
Good news is that you can always just get another one! Those drop in the Dragon's Fang if I'm not mistaken. BTW, after that experience (losing that Neck Chopper) I learned forevermore to always, always save and/or double-check the information sheet of any possibly cursed items before equipping them.
Especially if they're good items.
Sadly... you lost the spear.
Good news is that you can always just get another one! Those drop in the Dragon's Fang if I'm not mistaken. BTW, after that experience (losing that Neck Chopper) I learned forevermore to always, always save and/or double-check the information sheet of any possibly cursed items before equipping them.
Especially if they're good items.
bataille
There is one trick you could try:
- Try having the character with the cursed spear equipped to use an item which class-changes them (automatically unequips a character of everything).
- Try changing that character's race via one of the game's quests and/or using one of the items in the game which (randomly) changes race.
There is one trick you could try:
- Try having the character with the cursed spear equipped to use an item which class-changes them (automatically unequips a character of everything).
- Try changing that character's race via one of the game's quests and/or using one of the items in the game which (randomly) changes race.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,188
Might and Magic X: Legacy is turn based and has my high recommendation.
Though admittedly it is quite combat focused. Exploration is decent, but not great. But there are some nice puzzles, if you like those things.
oh, i've played MMXL. didn't care for it too much; only 4 party members, too few stats, loot/itemization too simplistic, lack of depth regarding classes, poor enemy variety and very, very mediocre dungeons.
also too much "world" to explore and not enough focused instances (not necessarily has to be a dungeon).
...it's the only might and magic i've ever played but if it's any indication then i don't think i will play the earlier games. it's simply too simplistic.
I enjoyed Devil's Whiskey a HELL of a lot more and am thinking of starting it up again (it's a Bard's Tale clone). Never played any of the original BT games, though. Compared to MMXL (and I assume the other MM games), Devil's Whiskey is leaps and bounds a much deeper, more cerebral "crawler" that is not a Wiz-clone.
(after my MMXL experience I absolutely hate it when people lump MM in the same realm as a Wiz-clone... they could not be more different).
also too much "world" to explore and not enough focused instances (not necessarily has to be a dungeon).
...it's the only might and magic i've ever played but if it's any indication then i don't think i will play the earlier games. it's simply too simplistic.
I enjoyed Devil's Whiskey a HELL of a lot more and am thinking of starting it up again (it's a Bard's Tale clone). Never played any of the original BT games, though. Compared to MMXL (and I assume the other MM games), Devil's Whiskey is leaps and bounds a much deeper, more cerebral "crawler" that is not a Wiz-clone.
(after my MMXL experience I absolutely hate it when people lump MM in the same realm as a Wiz-clone... they could not be more different).
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,188
I agree with the simplistic loot/itemization and dungeons (which are suitable for what it is, IMO). I kinda disagree about the lack of depth regarding classes though. They are sufficiently distinct and varied IMO. Also have some OP late-game abilities, but are pretty well balanced overall, so that I really struggle choosing the optimal party. The only class that seems inferior is the Defender - cause you don't really need a dedicated tank character. A fair bit of strategy goes into character building and the tactical combat.
Parts VI-IX have bigger dungeons, but are real-time trash (with optional turn-based mode that is quite useless, as is usually the case in "hybrid" games). Also their ugly sprite graphics are a pain to look at.
You have to reach to parts 1-5 to find something of value prior to X. Still, the dungeons won't be much of a challenge for a Wizardry/Elminage veteran I guess. Also they were less tactical then X.
Parts VI-IX have bigger dungeons, but are real-time trash (with optional turn-based mode that is quite useless, as is usually the case in "hybrid" games). Also their ugly sprite graphics are a pain to look at.
You have to reach to parts 1-5 to find something of value prior to X. Still, the dungeons won't be much of a challenge for a Wizardry/Elminage veteran I guess. Also they were less tactical then X.
Pyreen
Educated
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2017
- Messages
- 36
LOL that's one of my pet peeves as well, I get heavily triggered when I read stuff like "a classic RPG in the style of M&M, Wizardry and Ultima" as if those games had anything substantial to do with each other, esp. in the case of Ultima.
Concerning recommendations, pretty much all of the best games I know have already been mentioned in one thread or another; maybe try Amberstar, it's a good crawler with a 2d overworld, turn based first person dungeon exploration, large maps, and puzzles. It's possible to get into unwinnable gamestates though and you only have 1 save slot. If possible play the Amiga version as it has the best graphics.
People that like Dungeon Master style combat should check out Dungeon Hack, but that one is pretty well known I guess.
Edit: Amberstar's sequel Ambermoon was also well received at the time, but I never played it.
Last edited:
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
no it won't stack. it does in elminage gothic(pc) I think but not original
in PSP version of E: ORiginal it does stack and can reach a RIDICULOUS number. Same in Gothic, except they capped the natural behead of the ninja to 50%, so that means (in Gothic) that to reach 100% you need a super-super-super-super high LVL ninja (for the 50% behead) + weapon enchanted with 50% behead. Needless to say you won't be accomplishing such a thing until well into Ibag's Tower, heh.
in Original i remember having my ninja with 70%~ or so behead at like level 30 or so which is fucking bonkers. Also, regardless of the behead %, i won't get into the mechanical specifics of it but beheading resolution was balanced in Gothic and occurs less frequently than in Original. (mostly due to enemies having much lower AC values in Gothic, but they tweaked some of the resolution variables slightly).
(In Original natural behead % caps at 100 so it is possible to reach 100 behead with an unarmed ninja, and swallow return can reach the same 100% as well; in Gothic swallow return was capped at 50% as well, and even being capped it's still insanely powerful/useful).
in Original i remember having my ninja with 70%~ or so behead at like level 30 or so which is fucking bonkers. Also, regardless of the behead %, i won't get into the mechanical specifics of it but beheading resolution was balanced in Gothic and occurs less frequently than in Original. (mostly due to enemies having much lower AC values in Gothic, but they tweaked some of the resolution variables slightly).
(In Original natural behead % caps at 100 so it is possible to reach 100 behead with an unarmed ninja, and swallow return can reach the same 100% as well; in Gothic swallow return was capped at 50% as well, and even being capped it's still insanely powerful/useful).
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
swallow return is 95% (at around lvl 2500ish)
I think ninja cap at 95% too which is around lvl 400-500 if I remember
same for court sanctuary(lord) it caps at 95%(lvl 800 ish I think)
Does any of the Elminage games & ports have a REAL interface? I swear, even Wizardry I on the Apple II is easier to control than Elminage Gothic on Steam.
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