Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Maculo]

Aloth's quest is the one that takes you to northeast of the slave fort right? The one with the Thaos mural? What is it about, can someone spoil it for me? Aloth is not in my game, he tripped and fell over a blood pool.

Also is there a way to solve the slave quests that happens in those islands in a way that's unsatisfying for every faction?

Spoiler

There is an isolationist tribe of Huana that reside in Englishman ruins. They paint their faces white and are borderline militant.

You tap into the soul/memories of the tribe elder to see that Thaos arrived at the island and proclaimed that their presence angered the gods. The Huana tied up Thaos and his followers and burned them alive. Thaos died with a smug look on his face, which confused the tribe, and from that point on the tribe became anti-outsider.

The tribe were unwittingly leaden key, because Thaos manipulated them into guarding the ruins, similar to the tribes in Twin Elms in PoE1.

Aloth has to consider how complex the leaden key is, and whether he is making any progress reforming the organization.

 

[MajorMace]

This new "narrative designer" title makes me rage for some reason. What happened to "writer"?

Is "narrative designer" something Tumblr dangerhair womynz came up with because they don't feel validated enough simply being called a writer when they write shit? I don't get it.

what if they don't deserve the title of writer ?

 

[ScrotumBroth]

What if they don't deserve the title of writer nor designer?

inb4 join BioWare.

 

[MajorMace]

What if they don't deserve the title of writer nor designer?

you can still promote them to project direction

 

[kintake]

What if they don't deserve the title of writer nor designer?

inb4 join Beamdog.

Fixed.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

you can still promote them to project direction

 

[Infinitron]

Speaking of credits, I'm surprised it took this long for somebody to point out that yes, sser is credited in PoE2: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,830539/

 

[Shadenuat]

If ever a post served as the perfect example of bias, this would be it.

No that wasn't the point, and I also gave other comparisons not just previous game>this game.

I am comparing how intergame reactivity in one game affects the player compared to another.

If your mechanical options are hate/love/leave/fight/change stats/change rep/change alignment/class you should use them, since these are which directly affect how player plays and are the only way to get player out of their comfort zone (except for also multiple changes to main/side quests). POE is very safe with this, in BG1 you can get Viconia in party and your rep suddenly can go down to the point that some other party members can leave; in this game you can do a lot of things but still get no reaction from the game.

Extra banter is nice but it doesn't affect how you play the game.

Example how reactivity could have been better for Eder: depending on his ending in PoE1, if he joins you, you get either +2/-2 with 2 of the factions in the game (like dawnstars/gullet) and these characters react to him, instead of him reacting to you.

but eder can die

This is a similar consequence to just not carrying companion around, same as in BG2 you might just not free Jaheira&Minsc and not carry them around. It doesn't require any work and doesn't really affect much. Not to mention, who would kill Eder? Was there any point in the PoE1 where you had to choose between companions, or you lose something because of companions, or companions fight? There wasn't, so it's just a safe gimmick. You can kill anyone, if you want. But 99% of players would keep everyone around to see their new dialogue etc.

An example of C&C if character dies: you can sacrifice Maia's brother. Does she actively search for her brother? Does she ask you about it? You have to actively screw over yourself and blatantly tell her many times YES I KILLED HIM to get any kind of reaction, and you don't even get a logical, immediate reaction from her. It's all very safe, to keep player not losing anything immediately for making the wrong choice.

This can be fun the first time it happens, if the player is in the mood for the mini soap opera. But on every next playthrough I would avoid Anomen.

Everything is only truly fun the first time it happens.

Do not think I am praising Anomen as a pinnacle of game writing or whatever. BG2 is far from a game with any good consequences. But what these series did more often than modern games is get player out of their comfort zone. They did it awkwardly and with primitive tools but achieved often better effect than say POE does. You get your soul stolen from you, you turn into a demon and accidentally murder your waifu cause she has 26 hp lol. Second time you know it happens and cast stoneskin on waifu, but the event happened and it did affect you in some way personally.

 

[MajorMace]

No that wasn't the point, and I also gave other comparisons not just previous game>this game.

I am comparing how intergame reactivity in one game affects the player compared to another.

If your mechanical options are hate/love/leave/fight/change stats/change rep/change alignment/class you should use them, since these are which directly affect how player plays and are the only way to get player out of their comfort zone (except for also multiple changes to main/side quests). POE is very safe with this, in BG1 you can get Viconia in party and your rep suddenly can go down to the point that some other party members can leave; in this game you can do a lot of things but still get no reaction from the game.

Extra banter is nice but it doesn't affect how you play the game.

Example how reactivity could have been better for Eder: depending on his ending in PoE1, if he joins you, you get either +2/-2 with 2 of the factions in the game (like dawnstars/gullet) and these characters react to him, instead of him reacting to you.

I definitely expected more from deadfire, and I think the key difference with bg/bg2 is that the latter didn't hype the reactivity to the first game's choices in the sequel.
But even then, you took - like - the only example in BG2 of a companion with some c&c in his personal quest. Some companions have special treatment (yoshimo, but he doesn't have anything besides his gimmick and has very little banters with others, and jaheira) but no actual c&c there. Minsc doesn't even have a quest afaik.
So concluding your post with "everybody hates this dude" like "imagine how crazy it is for the other companions !!1!" when everyone perfectly knows you're focusing on an exception and all the others fit the general rule of bg/bg2. Which is, barely any c&c. People hate anomen's character, I don't think anybody would claim they hate its character development design-wise, it's simply the best in the whole series.

But yeah, thing is BG2, afaik, didn't promise anything there.
Before deadfire, josh would tweet about how they worked a lot on the first game's reactivity - and I'm sure they did - so it generated expectations. As far as i'm concerned, these weren't met. Having played the game, it's obvious they took a lot of time to put flavour reactivity, and sometimes in a pretty cool fashion (wael's spiteful eradication of the pc's scrolls comes to mind) but generally speaking, it's very - very disappointing. And just like I'd like a more focused and tighter design, I'd have liked some more reactivity to simply fewer choices from the first game.

 

[Shadenuat]

So concluding your post with "everybody hates this dude" like "imagine how crazy it is for the other companions !!1!"

No it's actually other way around - everyone hates Anomen, and loves Minsc even if Minsc doesn't have a quest or level of detail Anomen has. Cause Anomen is enraging character by his nature.

It's not crazy for other companions (and BG2 itself is linear, quests are almost all linear, and it's main quest reactivity is whatever - although you can skip some places, try fighting whole drow city etc. - but POE2 main quest is even more of a joke in comparison). But honestly, even without crazy way they are written, they feel more like people with different beliefs which bond/are indifferent/hate each other compared to PoE2 companions.

The other exception is Haer'Dalis trying to steal your waifu I think. I think you can even duel the sigil motherfucker.

Before deadfire, josh would tweet about how they worked a lot on the first game's reactivity

I ignored and even if I wouldn't I would never buy into it.

When it comes to reactivity, I am waiting for the game to a) get me out of my comfort zone b) make me make hard choices. PoE1 never did this, PoE2 never did this for me either. The only thing getting me out of my zone were wild gay/lesbians hitting on me at all times.

For Josh/Obsidian/their fans it's obviously not this. In their belief, these extra lines are much roleplay, and are super important for their character development.

And of course you must have some lines, I'm not saying you shouldn' have any lines, but it's all still Reaction. There must be Action/Proactive mechanics to hammer what companions really are.

 

[TT1]

I am looking inside the PT-BR localization (made by Red Cerberus) and, man... there are some clearly google translated sentences. This is embarrassing.

 

[Roguey]

This new "narrative designer" title makes me rage for some reason. What happened to "writer"?

Is "narrative designer" something Tumblr dangerhair womynz came up with because they don't feel validated enough simply being called a writer when they write shit? I don't get it.

The term predates dangerhair infiltration. Obsidian started using it because narrative design involves more than simply turning in a script. It should be noted that Obsidian also credits people with "writing" and "additional writing" which is what that is.

 

[Sherry]

Ado!

Only small steps this week but they got bigger as the city slowly peeled its layers back so I thought I would give everyone here a break from fighting and just let you enjoy the places and people I have met during my visit. There are some pictures of the group's exploration but I will put them in spoiler tags for you so click at your own risk!

When Orange returned from Karatapu Channel and watched Kahn dash out of the Wild Mare she decided it was time for the group to explore the surroundings and maybe get to find where Kahn ran off to but just to note I have not found her and read it is a bug in the quest so the quest is still open even though Kahn concluded it in our conversation before running out the door. After resting it was to the streets we all walked and Aloth examined a sewer grate and learned the bars could be broken but Orange would have none of that because that would make her smell like the sewer and with so many other places to visit she wanted the smell from the soap she washed with to remain but she made a note of it when there were not such pressing matters at hand.

Spoiler

Okay so moving on the party met up with some woman looking for her brother and since we were exploring the district already we offered to help her so off we went! We checked out the merchants and the shops and the places that she knew her brother liked to hang and chill with his crew but here are a few more pictures of the exploring.

Spoiler

this is the woman standing outside of the building we met her at who was looking for her brother

a merchant shop with lots of detail and little knick knacks to browse

omg we got startled here not expecting creatures to be defending the top of the tower or their roost but after a number of quick shouts and deep breaths we contained the encounter.

Some three hours pass and we all find our way to this giant waterfall powering a turning wooden wheel and behind the waterfall on the other side did we find the brother getting ready to duel! Larro had gotten himself into a nasty mix of trouble with a Valera and it was about to go down so Orange pushes from out of the waterfall and crouches just enough for everyone to see her chewing her lower lip and that got their attention. As the two argued back and forth Orange realized this is a perfect time to make some coin and dropped ten copper on Larro to the displeasure of Aloth but Orange shot him a glare and shut him up but when she turned back the duel had begun! Orange was not about to lose that copper and elbowed Xoti and gave a nod to Larro to give him some kind of edge in the battle because the ship was short on coin and there was a sick cook on board so all the coin we could get to fix the ship up a little more would help and Orange also wanted to buy some candy for Leslie. Larro runs the Valera through the heart and Orange grins with joy!

Spoiler

here are some screens from the waterfall duel Orange bet on and won!

Orange went back to shopping when the duel was over to see what sort of medicine, food or candy she could find before going to visit the Bardatto family that Larro is part of just to check in on him and make sure that he was okay mentally because a duel can be hard to move past if you can't stop the images and sounds from the one you killed from going away and Orange knew first hand about voices from Gods and ghosts from being a Watcher and she is helpful that way. As she chewed her lower lip she thought no to check in on the Vella family first because maybe they have a wanted post for Larro and that would mean even more coin for candy. Leslie was such a doll and Orange is happy to have her on the ship so she can raise the girl to be a proper woman. Atello Valera did not impress Orange and the room he was in smelled funny so she left for the Bardatto family estate where she met up with Ezzali Bardatto and agreed to sniff out what those smelly Valera's are up to.

Orange is tasked to find some musician named Zili Valera who can tell Orange what is maybe going on and what the Valeras are planning so she searches the streets again and finds them. Orange lies again and learns that it is not Zili who is the mastermind but Persa Valera and she can be found somewhere in the Gullet.

Spoiler

this room smelled funny

this estate smelled much nicer so Orange immediately decided to help them plus her duelist winner lives here.

and this is the musician we found strumming his chords who told us about Persa.

and the next stop of the big city!

On our way there we watched a magic show but soon realized on our way that we would have to cut through Periki's Overlook first so that is where I will pick up next time and I hope you liked taking a break and enjoyed this update.

Agracima,
Sherry

 

[FreeKaner]

What is the conclusive list of what Carrie Patel wrote for PoE1/2? Roguey ?

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Big companies like Obsidian don't do stuff "because they wanted to", there has to be some internal justification at least.

Feargus ask Sawyer and his team to deliver a BG clone, but developers are real people, not robots. So PoE has only the semblance of BG, because Obsidian developers and their development cycle has nothing to do with Bioware from the past, and PoE2 has only a semblance of PoE, because the lead now is Sawyer, he hated the story of the previous game, he used the pirate themes to give a more colonial/pseudo-historic vibe to it, etc. This only reinforces the notion that sequels are a bad idea due to creative purposes alone. Developers want to try new things instead of being restricted by a setting and its characters. The narrative of the previous game either works like a straitjacket or is ignored.

 

[Sacred82]

Feargus ask Sawyer and his team to deliver a BG clone, but developers are real people, not robots. So PoE has only the semblance of BG, because Obsidian developers and their development cycle has nothing to do with Bioware from the past

where did you get the notion that Feargus wanted basically a graphically overhauled BG, and that's what people wanted to buy too?

 

[FreeKaner]

Kickstarter.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh hey, you can use magic to cheat at the family fued duel? That's actually fucking cool, I just yelled at them to get the fuck out of there and they bolted.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Fanboys are such horrible creatures.

This game really isn't bad enough for you to yet again resort to attacking overrated games from 20 years ago to prove it does something right in comparison.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but something new I'm seeing on GOG with a few recent divisive game releases is that it appears that the publisher/developer can now reset the upvote/downvote of user ratings. (I noticed it first with respect to Ash of Gods, where Banner Saga fans seemed to be upvoting negative reviews, which would percolate to the top by the end of the day, only to have them reset at night fall. It seems to be going on with POE2, where you'll see that the user ratings all have 0/0 helpfulness.)

That's disgusting. It deserves a specific thread.

 

[TT1]

Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice...

Kawaii Kitty Serafen

 

[Shadenuat]

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

The difference is that BG1 is a classic that will be replayed for as long as computers can run it, and it has proven itself to be like that.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

BioWare (until 2011) was consistently above Obsidian in programming, art, sound, music, toolsets, graphics, QA, UIs, and so on. They only had worse writing, and even that wasn't always the case.

Veterans from Obsidian can't emulate and much less beat the teenagers from Bioware. True dat.

 

[Shadenuat]

What's so funny? Think they created whole studio to make enhanced editions of all IE games just for lulz?

These games play well, aged well, and also they sell.