Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Rinslin Merwind]

I am talking about planet map, not in-game

 

[Reapa]

you kids have been playing too much skyrim. and it seems sawyerism is starting to rot your brains.
there's no such thing as a rogue paladin. the rogue stands for absolute freedom and the paladin for total obedience. once a rogue becomes a paladin he can no longer be a rogue and vice versa.
stop trying to defend this shit, you fucking incest victims of incest victims!

 

[Sigourn]

Parabalus, citations needed?

Here is a list of top 10 strategy games.
http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=70

This is a list of top 70 cRPGs
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

You will find even more suggestions of cRPGs on Felipepe's book.
https://crpgbook.wordpress.com

Here is a list of all upcoming cRPGs
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/upcoming-role-playing-games-2018-and-onward.119870/

Do you seriously want to suggest that you played all these games? That this Obsidian game is the only game in existence? That is your excuse?

You post the truth and people dismiss you entirely.

I'm not playing Deadfire myself. I'm barely playing the allegedly great BG2:SoA. Instead, I'm coasting through Terranigma. There are hundreds of RPGs out there to play, no need to stick with Deadfire.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Did anyone get the urge to respec the whole party?

 

[FreeKaner]

Eh, not really. Pillars of Eternity 1/2 are clearly D&D-derived, and the D&D paladin class comes from this book:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hearts_and_Three_Lions#cite_note-webcite-4

https://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.geocities.com/rgfdfaq/sources.html&date=2007-07-20

Paladin class
Based largely on the character of Holger Carlson from Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions, as well as Anderson's original sources, Charlemagne's paladins in the medieval French chansons de geste ("songs of deeds"), particularly The Song of Roland and Ariosto's Orlando Furioso. The paladin's tie to a special war-horse is also from Three Hearts and Three Lions. ("I do not mean a saint, but a warrior whom God gave more than common gifts and then put under a more than common burden." -- Martinus, in Three Hearts and Three Lions, by Poul Anderson.)"

All the classic paladin tropes are there; strong moral code, tithing, resistance to evil magic, magical mounts, etc.

AD&D Paladins are purely Lawful good. PoE doesn't even have "lawful good". PoE Paladins are more inspired by European knightly military orders, palace guards and military captains etc. than the late medieval French tales. Sure the late medieval French tales and stories of knights-errant still play a role in the image of "Paladin" but obviously there is a difference between idealised Knights Templar and PoE's goldpact knights.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Pillars paladins can be extremely amoral, see WM2 quest with Bleak Walkers

I understand that I just think that's dumb.

Call them something other than paladins.

 

[ArchAngel]

PoE 2 lacks Tyranny XP and leveling system. Combat is kind of simple in both games but at least in Tyranny you had this whole minigame of trying to level up multiple skills during encounters so you can level up faster overall. It kept combat somewhat interesting.

 

[FreeKaner]

Pillars paladins can be extremely amoral, see WM2 quest with Bleak Walkers

I understand that I just think that's dumb.

Call them something other than paladins.

Why? The word is exactly fitting. In fact it's less fitting for the lawful good paladins. Call those Templars or something of that sort. A Paladin is a member of a military order, with a creed and code. It's where the word derives from.

 

[Pizzashoes]

Going deeper, I think it is easy to say that Naruto from the popular series Naruto would classify as a Paladin/Rogue. He has the Ninjutsu abilities where he can teleport around and deal big damage. And he has healing abilities. But most importantly he follows a particular way of life, his nindo, or his ninja way. Believe it!

 

[Parabalus]

Pillars paladins can be extremely amoral, see WM2 quest with Bleak Walkers

I understand that I just think that's dumb.

Call them something other than paladins.

To be a paladin you just need to be a self-righteous prick, why muddy that with the arbitrary axis of good and evil?

In DnD the gods have explicitly declared moralities/pantheons, while in PoE the gods are fake constructs without stances, you can't do it the same way.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

you kids have been playing too much skyrim. and it seems sawyerism is starting to rot your brains.
there's no such thing as a rogue paladin. the rogue stands for absolute freedom and the paladin for total obedience. once a rogue becomes a paladin he can no longer be a rogue and vice versa.
stop trying to defend this shit, you fucking incest victims of incest victims!

Jesus Christ, don't butthurt so much about different opinion. Don't act like fanatic, it's just game. The whole "paladin = heavy armor" is made up, because over-romanticism in literature about knights and nobility.

 

[MajorMace]

The problem with world-building is that it poorly translates into the game. And that's because the main quest is deliberately completely disconnected from it.
So you get factions, which have a fair amount of shared interests, which itself translates into intricate quest design. And that's cool and all.
But ultimately, it doesn't lead to anything relevant or satisfying. Because ultimately huh u should take care of this statue business.

So at any point in the game, and even without uttering a word to any faction past the meeting in the palace I suspect, you can rush to the north of the map and score an epic touchdown like the shit hero that the watcher always wanted to be.
I assume you can even immediatly go there once you have your ship. It might even be the whole point of it : to try to emulate how fallout, for instance, gives you total freedom.
But it just doesn't work well, story-wise. The supermutant business in fallout is connected to the world, through the cathedral for instance, or through how super mutants clear necropolis clean after some point in the game has passed.
It has a clear impact, and it feels relevant. You can see how it concerns the whole wasteland, and how doing shit in the wasteland can help with this situation (the brotherhood, obviously).

Here it's just huh, have a sandbox to play in. When you're done, wash your hands and go deal with eothas.
That's pretty weak, in the end.

 

[FreeKaner]

De Cervantes was making fun of concept of knight-errant (I.E your "paladin") in 17th century, yet here we are 400 years later having to argue the concept still.

 

[Great Deceiver]

cool fight this

Lol, my wife is just playing through IWD HoW's Burial Isle (at my instigation), and I remembered where had I first seen these bloated corpses models. They are called "Drowned Dead" there.

Drowned Dead were quite tough on their own, but especially in conjunction with the Howling Virgins that would make half your party hopeless. Cool area, but unfortunately it's the only decent part of the expansion, as opposed to the uniformly great base game.

I think encounter design (mixing and matching different types of enemies that on their own are not that hard but together are troublesome) is very much a lost art.

 

[Parabalus]

The problem with world-building is that it poorly translates into the game. And that's because the main quest is deliberately completely disconnected from it.
So you get factions, which have a fair amount of shared interests, which itself translates into intricate quest design. And that's cool and all.
But ultimately, it doesn't lead to anything relevant or satisfying. Because ultimately huh u should take care of this statue business.

So at any point in the game, and even without uttering a word to any faction past the meeting in the palace I suspect, you can rush to the north of the map and score an epic touchdown like the shit hero that the watcher always wanted to be.
I assume you can even immediatly go there once you have your ship. It might even be the whole point of it : to try to emulate how fallout, for instance, gives you total freedom.
But it just doesn't work well, story-wise. The supermutant business in fallout is connected to the world, through the cathedral for instance, or through how super mutants clear necropolis clean after some point in the game has passed.
It has a clear impact, and it feels relevant.

Here it's just huh, have a sandbox to play in. When you're done, wash your hands and go deal with eothas.
That's pretty weak, ultimately.

The faction all do try to react to Eothas though, but they realize they can't fight him head on.

All 4 quest lines are concerned with Eothas and how to follow him to the last location, not sure about the queen but the other 3 all have you directly dealing with providing the means of following in his wake.

I haven't gone in alone but you need 120k in gold at least, that's not really "immediately".

 

[pomenitul]

Christ this thread has taken a serious beating and broken new grounds for retardation over the last few pages, espousing the kind of simplistic moral compass you'd expect from a low-int paladin.

 

[MajorMace]

The problem with world-building is that it poorly translates into the game. And that's because the main quest is deliberately completely disconnected from it.
So you get factions, which have a fair amount of shared interests, which itself translates into intricate quest design. And that's cool and all.
But ultimately, it doesn't lead to anything relevant or satisfying. Because ultimately huh u should take care of this statue business.

So at any point in the game, and even without uttering a word to any faction past the meeting in the palace I suspect, you can rush to the north of the map and score an epic touchdown like the shit hero that the watcher always wanted to be.
I assume you can even immediatly go there once you have your ship. It might even be the whole point of it : to try to emulate how fallout, for instance, gives you total freedom.
But it just doesn't work well, story-wise. The supermutant business in fallout is connected to the world, through the cathedral for instance, or through how super mutants clear necropolis clean after some point in the game has passed.
It has a clear impact, and it feels relevant.

Here it's just huh, have a sandbox to play in. When you're done, wash your hands and go deal with eothas.
That's pretty weak, ultimately.

The faction all do try to react to Eothas though, but they realize they can't fight him head on.

All 4 quest lines are concerned with Eothas and how to follow him to the last location, not sure about the queen but the other 3 all have you directly dealing with providing the means of following in his wake.

I haven't gone in alone but you need 120k in gold at least, that's not really "immediately".

I'd love to report on that, but my questline from the queen is broken I think.

Spoiler

The game goes bananas whenever you deal with stuff before you're asked to. The leader of the natives acknowledge that I already dealth with the slavers, and said something about the rauatai fleet - the very same fleet whose script bugged out while I was doing stuff for Rauatai already. Now she won't utter a word. The queen won't utter a word. And all I can do is put poisonous fruits in the native leader bowl or something, which doesn't do anything.

So far, regarding the world, it feels like Eothas has passed and is just waiting for me to finally end the game.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

AD&D Paladins are purely Lawful good. PoE doesn't even have "lawful good". PoE Paladins are more inspired by European knightly military orders, palace guards and military captains etc. than the late medieval French tales. Sure the late medieval French tales and stories of knights-errant still play a role in the image of "Paladin" but obviously there is a difference between idealised Knights Templar and PoE's goldpact knights.

To understand what I'm talking about, the original paladin concept was a holy warrior who was granted his strength and powers by god, but who also needed to constantly act in a way that god approved of lest he be stripped of those powers.

Later, most RPG/fiction lore has dropped the 'worthiness' aspect of the paladin, turning them into someone who just vaguely follows a code or set of principles. That's fine, but then where do their divine powers come from? You can get around this by having lots of gods, but it only goes so far. In Pillars' 3Edgy5u atheist world, gods and religion are all a sham because even though the gods are real they were created by people, so the real power is in all of us. Or something, I don't know. So you can just make up your own code and follow it and Poof! You get divine magical powers. I find that thematically troublesome for all sorts of reasons.

Goldpact Knights:"Mercenaries with a solemn reverence for the sanctity of contracts, Goldpact Knights fulfill their obligations with unemotional, unswerving commitment and without moral judgment."

What the fucking shit is this!? You're telling me that following a knightly order based on the sacredness of contracts will give me holy powers to smite the wicked?

The knights of Meshbesher and Spence?!?

Then on top of all of that you have Pallegina, a paladin who is anti-religious, hates the gods, disregarded her duty, and abandoned her beliefs. Where the fuck do her divine powers come from?

These aren't paladins, they are just normal fighters, and they should have no divine powers.

 

[Reapa]

you all seem to focus only on the paladin side while completely forgetting the rogue side.
a paladin is just a warrior with a creed, yeah, sure, whatever. but he will follow his creed, be disciplined and obey his superiors. remove all that and he is no longer a paladin.
while a rogue should be free. remove his freedom and he will no longer be a rogue. yes, a thieves guild is imaginable but in no way does it resemble a military order!
not sure how much clearer do i have to make myself for you idiots to finally understand what i'm saying.

 

[MajorMace]

Would Altair from the original assassin's creed qualify as a rogue/paladin Reapa ?
Btw thanks for your insight on the matter, it's food for thought.

 

[2house2fly]

you kids have been playing too much skyrim. and it seems sawyerism is starting to rot your brains.
there's no such thing as a rogue paladin. the rogue stands for absolute freedom and the paladin for total obedience. once a rogue becomes a paladin he can no longer be a rogue and vice versa.
stop trying to defend this shit, you fucking incest victims of incest victims!

They're class names. Functionally a rogue/paladin is a paladin who can do sneak attacks or a rogue who can inspire his friends with zeal

 

[Iskramor]

I don't get all those complains about the soundtrack.

Other than a single bad track, the ost is pretty damn good.

So you didnt noticed that there are tracks form first game which is unacceptable. Justin bell fucked his wide and effectivly ruined soundtrack of great sequel. One of the reasons i refunded obsidian edition of the game.

 

[Parabalus]

AD&D Paladins are purely Lawful good. PoE doesn't even have "lawful good". PoE Paladins are more inspired by European knightly military orders, palace guards and military captains etc. than the late medieval French tales. Sure the late medieval French tales and stories of knights-errant still play a role in the image of "Paladin" but obviously there is a difference between idealised Knights Templar and PoE's goldpact knights.

To understand what I'm talking about, the original paladin concept was a holy warrior who was granted his strength and powers by god, but who also needed to constantly act in a way that god approved of lest he be stripped of those powers.

Later, most RPG/fiction lore has dropped the 'worthiness' aspect of the paladin, turning them into someone who just vaguely follows a code or set of principles. That's fine, but then where do their divine powers come from? You can get around this by having lots of gods, but it only goes so far. In Pillars' 3Edgy5u atheist world, gods and religion are all a sham because even though the gods are real they were created by people, so the real power is in all of us. Or something, I don't know. So you can just make up your own code and follow it and Poof! You get divine magical powers. I find that thematically troublesome for all sorts of reasons.

Goldpact Knights:"Mercenaries with a solemn reverence for the sanctity of contracts, Goldpact Knights fulfill their obligations with unemotional, unswerving commitment and without moral judgment."

What the fucking shit is this??!? You're telling me that following a knightly order based on the sacredness of contracts will give me holy powers to smite the wicked?

The knights of Meshbesher and Spence?!?

Then on top of all of that you have Pallegina, a paladin who is anti-religious, hates the gods, disregarded her duty, and abandoned her beliefs. Where the fuck do her divine powers come from?

These aren't paladins, they are just normal fighters, and they should have no divine powers.

Paladins in Eora don't have divine powers, they come from their own souls.

. And though they are not always pledged to the service of a god or gods, paladins are so singularly focused on their chosen cause that their souls are continually creating a wellspring of spiritual energy from which they can blast groups of foes in their immediate vicinity.

you all seem to focus only on the paladin side while completely forgetting the rogue side.
a paladin is just a warrior with a creed, yeah, sure, whatever. but he will follow his creed, be disciplined and obey his superiors. remove all that and he is no longer a paladin.
while a rogue should be free. remove his freedom and he will no longer be a rogue. yes, a thieves guild is imaginable but in no way does it resemble a military order!
not sure how much clearer do i have to make myself for you idiots to finally understand what i'm saying.

A paladin in PoE doesn't even have to have a formal creed or superiors, he just has to feel strongly enough about something.

The rogue part is a huge 'citation needed', by that logic all the pirates aren't rogues because they are under a single flag. Rogues and freedom have nothing to do with each other.

Contrary to what their name might imply, rogues come from many walks of life. They are cutpurses, thugs, and courtesans but also aristocrats, diplomats, and personal guards

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

IHaveHugeNick Need citations? Here you go (map in citation is not official, it's build up on gathered material about game if I remember correct).

And according to the game this map is fucking wrong, just like the others maps. Because on first Island in district with storm callers woman shaman/storm caller in charge reacted on my "The White That Wends" background and said: "It's really rare to meet someone from another edge of the World" (or something like this). I doubt that deadfire negros and rautai would call anyone from relatively near island Naasitaq or polar continent "guy from another edge of the world", so The White That Wends should be under Aedyr Empire, not near Deadfire.

P.S. Infinitron It's not my autism need to blame, it's devs who didn't created normal map and follow it during development.

 

[2house2fly]

They didn't create a map because they don't want to nail down stuff now and have to stick to it for future games