Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[an Administrator]

Commandos-style stealth is YUGE

 

[Maculo]

Not sure if anyone posted it here yet, but there's a transcript of the latest dev Q&A which is available on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/projectete.../pillars_of_eternity_ii_deadfire_qa_stream_5/
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Some decent answers in there.

I really like shapeshifting Druids, but don't like the time limit on Spiritshift. Any chance of a subclass for the Druid that has Spiritshift as a modal instead?

JS: There is a subclass for Druids that is focused specifically on spiritshifting. Without going into details on that, yes, for people who just like to be shifted all over the place and do all sorts of crazy stuff, there's a subclass that's focused on that.

Will random encounters be finite in Pillars 2? I'd like that for the sake of th e game's economy. Same applies to crafting materials found throughout Deadfire; collecting plants and fishing, for example.

JS: Some encounters will be finite. They'll only fire once ever. Some will repeat. But that will depend on the total number of encounters that we have. Some will definitely be exhausted, you just can't keep getting them over and over again, and then some will recur.

Will we be able to sympathize with Eothas in Deadfire?

JS: I don't know. Will you? That's up to you. Oh, and "Does he have a faction associated with him?"...time will tell.

Deus vult incoming.

 

[Sannom]

Come the fuck on. Don't tell me Commandos-style stealth did not strike you as a logical next step when you were playing the old IE games. I know I used to think of it back in the days.

I used to think that it would be great but undoable in a system that wasn't focused on stealth operations, like Commandos was.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Not sure if anyone posted it here yet, but there's a transcript of the latest dev Q&A which is available on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/projectete.../pillars_of_eternity_ii_deadfire_qa_stream_5/
\

Some decent answers in there.

I really like shapeshifting Druids, but don't like the time limit on Spiritshift. Any chance of a subclass for the Druid that has Spiritshift as a modal instead?

JS: There is a subclass for Druids that is focused specifically on spiritshifting. Without going into details on that, yes, for people who just like to be shifted all over the place and do all sorts of crazy stuff, there's a subclass that's focused on that.

Will random encounters be finite in Pillars 2? I'd like that for the sake of th e game's economy. Same applies to crafting materials found throughout Deadfire; collecting plants and fishing, for example.

JS: Some encounters will be finite. They'll only fire once ever. Some will repeat. But that will depend on the total number of encounters that we have. Some will definitely be exhausted, you just can't keep getting them over and over again, and then some will recur.

Will we be able to sympathize with Eothas in Deadfire?

JS: I don't know. Will you? That's up to you. Oh, and "Does he have a faction associated with him?"...time will tell.

Deus vult incoming.

I have great faith that Sawyer can recognize the first game's shortcomings and fix them the second time around. PoE 2 is gonna be yuge!

 

[Rostere]

Commands was built around stealthy missions, it wasn't a part of a whole RPG. It also didn't occur to me in BG1, I barely even used hide in shadows.

System with cones of vision > system with only proximity detection > system where you just become invisible.

Only reason this has not been done yet is that a sophisticated stealth system wasn't part of PnP, because you need a computer for the simulations.

Best thing would be a system which also takes lighting conditions into account, of course. The you would basically have an isometric Thief/Commandos hybrid. YES please

I used to think that it would be great but undoable in a system that wasn't focused on stealth operations, like Commandos was.

You can always implement the system. Then, at least the game will be strictly better than with a more primitive system. Then, maybe Obsidian won't have time to do 20 large maps where infiltration is a huge element, we'll see, but at least they will have a solid foundation.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

we're doomed

You saying you don't want to climb aboard the loveboat with Aloth and Eder in their cowboy hats and assless chaps?

 

[2house2fly]

Yes. The former apply to White March part 1 and the latter to White March part 2. Because the original campaign tries to impose a sense of urgency, both extremes disrupt the narrative.

The game does not try to impose a sense of urgency until the end of act 2 forces you out of Defiance Bay. A new player will get the notification to do WM1 early in act 2, at which point it's just another sidequest, albeit one that takes you further afield than the rest of them. The urgency of act 3 is a flaw in the narrative and frankly ameliorating it would have been as simple as changing a line or two of text in a couple of conversations, which I wish they had done, but then breaking off from the narrative to do the expansion is an issue in any game that has one. Postgame DLC would also make the flow of the narrative weird by inserting another, shorter adventure after the main one as part of the same story. "He drew a deep breath. 'Well, I'm back,' he said. Six months later a dragon invaded the Shire and Sam had to fight it"

 

[Infinitron]

One thing games could do is have expansions take place in some unspecified limbo chronology with no clear point of reference to the main game's plot. So you'd have the White March be standalone, but let players import a character into it from any saved game they want, or create a new one and level it up if they want.

 

[2house2fly]

The game does not try to impose a sense of urgency until the end of act 2 forces you out of Defiance Bay.

Wrong, the games tries to impose a sense of urgency from the moment you speak to Maerwald in act 1.

No it doesn't.

 

[Lacrymas]

Really? The bandit camp chapter was totally set up for a Commandos-style approach.

Depends on how you go about it, I guess. If you bump into what's-his-face who falls for your lies that you want to join them, then no. Otherwise, maybe? Up to this point the game doesn't have any stealth whatsoever, so I wasn't expecting to be able to stealth into the camp. You can't do that either way.

I'm expecting PoE2's first quests to have the option of stealthy completion, but being dropped after that. If they implement Commandos' stealth mechanics that is.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, Maerwald says that you are going to go bonkers if you don't do anything about it. There are also conversations with the companions that you aren't sleeping or are waking in the middle of the night. It didn't do a good job of hurrying you, but that doesn't mean it didn't try :p

TotSC also has this problem, you have to be going after the Iron Throne/Serevok, but you go to a little village for a stroll. Which sends you to a werewolf island lol. Then you go on an unrelated adventure to Durlag's. I guess it's not very noticeable from a gameplay perspective, because the whole of BG1 is a series of unconnected "short stories". Which I've always been critical about.

 

[Sizzle]

It's similar to BG2's "OMG, Bhaalspawn, they took yer job stole your soul, better get it back, quick!" situation (which also handles it badly, but unlike PoE, it comes much later in the game).

 

[2house2fly]

Yes it does, Maerwald's narrative purpose is to show the player what the future has in store for them, to get their ass moving unless they want to go insane.

Spoiler

...It just didn't do a good job at it.

The future isn't very soon and Maerwald went nuts over a period of years. The eventual potential future madness isn't urgency, it's stakes.

 

[Sigourn]

Can we pick pocket merchants?

That sounds fun, but what are the consequences of being caught? Sawyer said they're trying to avoid situations where NPCs suicide themselves against you in a fight they can't win, and on the other hand, having to fight every guard and/or citizen in a city just for stealing some minor thing would be excessive. So how do you balance it out?

Lose character progress, like Morrowind did. Alternatively, if this game had bawls, you could have certain time-sensitive quests fail if you go to jail, but you would only go to jail for extreme offenses that had equally extreme spoils (should you not get caught).

 

[Sentinel]

Can we pick pocket merchants?

That sounds fun, but what are the consequences of being caught? Sawyer said they're trying to avoid situations where NPCs suicide themselves against you in a fight they can't win, and on the other hand, having to fight every guard and/or citizen in a city just for stealing some minor thing would be excessive. So how do you balance it out?

I'd also like to see where stealing from someone could have unintended consequences down the road. Like, stealing food from a poor person might result in them being dead the next time you show up; or taking too many of a merchant's wares results in them having to close down their shop, etc. Maybe stealing svef could result in saving the life of an addict who would die otherwise?

Consequences could be:
a) Get caught, guards try to take you in. Guards are powerful though, so if you get caught stealing early, it's a risk that you'd perhaps want to avoid. If you get caught at a time you can easily kill them (later on), then so be it. Have your fun and wipe out the city because you don't want anyone to know you wanted that particular pair of pants. what's the problem?
b) Get caught, guards approach you and you have the option to just return the stolen item.
c) Get caught, submit to jail time. Could lead to a unique questline where you have to break out of jail, or your companions break you out of jail. This last option would also serve to strengthen the empathy the player would feel to the companions that broke him out.

 

[Sigourn]

c) Get caught, submit to jail time. Could lead to a unique questline where you have to break out of jail, or your companions break you out of jail. This last option would also serve to strengthen the empathy the player would feel to the companions that broke him out.

Add in some quests you could only do while in prison. That would make for a worthwile incentive to commit crimes without feeling you are only being punished if you fail: at least there will be quests for you to do in jail too. Hell, you could even help some people make it out of jail without necessarely breaking them out of it, just by making some investigations or shit, and then have those people offer you quests once they are out of prison.

 

[Infinitron]

I doubt they're going to have a crime system. Characters will attack you if you're caught but it'll be deterministic so you know ahead of time.

P.S. PoE1 already had this with stealing from containers. Containers, pockets, if you've got one might as well have the other.

 

[Sigourn]

I doubt they're going to have a crime system.

Thievery has been around forever in RPGs, Obsidian should get its ass moving and spice things up for a change.

 

[Sentinel]

I doubt they're going to have a crime system. Characters will attack you if you're caught but it'll be deterministic so you know ahead of time.

P.S. PoE1 already had this with stealing from containers. Containers, pockets, if you've got one might as well have the other.

They already have the system from PoE1, all they need is to create some content and add in some options that aren't slaughter everyone around you.
I'd trade that piece of shit elf companion or chasing after random monster spawns (weebshit) for improved crime mechanics and a questline any day of the fucking week.

 

[Morality Games]

Ultimately, I am worried we will be dropped in the middle of political struggle and our choices are Sharkmen, Not-Italians, and more Sharkmen.

Don't forget the more Not-Italians (the Old Vailian pirates).

Interesting how that works out.

Those are Valians as well? Damn, this is why I wanted Aedyr or Readceras in some form.

In PoE1, factions weren't developed (or important) at all. But for PoE2, it's obvious they are making it a priority.

And they already have more than enough of a set-up to make the conflict interesting:

- The Vailian Republics are the old naval and trading superpower.

- Rautai is the young pretender to that spot. What they lack in tradition and experience, they make up for with advanced firepower.

- For the pirates, there are several likely options: they want to use the chaotic situation to corner the market on the luminous adra trading; sell their services to the highest bidder and decide the outcome of the conflict; carve out a piece of territory and set up their own country; etc.

- As for the natives, there will probably be sub-factions there as well. One will almost certainly be about preserving their way of life. Another will perhaps be about using the foreigners in some way to modernize the DA.

We know the goals of the factions, but I would like to see it fleshed out in the game world. For example, in New Vegas, factions provided specific armor sets, weapons, supplies,benefits, etc. If you sided with House, you got your special suite in the Vegas tower, etc.

With Deadfire, I would like to see unique armor sets, weapons, soldiers, benefits, etc. By the same note, if you piss off the other factions, you would need to watch your back in certain locations (this can be implemented via random encounters at sea).

Heh. Hopefully we can choose ourselves.

 

[santino27]

Real stealth system? Guards with hearing radius? Sure starts to look like they've packing this game with way too many features for most of them to turn out any good.

I'd much rather have 2-3 new mechanics that are well-fleshed out, than bunch of half-assed shit added just to check some new boxes. I thought they learned their lesson with PoE1, but evidently not.

Yeah, just like PoE1. it also feels like they are going for a different kind of RPG, where you can do a lot of different things and giving you a lot of roleplaying options. I can't for the life of me give you an example of such a thing, Elder Scrolls comes to mind, but only in the sense of the freedom it gives you to do different things (stealth, pickpocketing etc.). A more freeform structure maybe.

EDIT: Maybe Fallout.

It feels like they're aiming for a more SoZ-like shift (NWN2 to Soz :: POE1 to POE2), only with the new systems being more than a half-inch deep at least.

 

[Sizzle]

 

[Seari]

Am I gonna have to use a mod again to turn that shit off?

Why do they have to make it so over the top, can't they just make it look like hot iron.

How will Pallegina's godlike hair survive that blazing inferno?

 

[FreeKaner]

This game's visuals are coming together very nicely. Animations could use a bit more work though, especially the walking but I would assume it's work in progress.

In visual terms, what we need is some Mughal era Indian architecture, especially since they said there would be Indian influenced areas in the game, if they have some Mughal palaces and castles it would be very satisfying visually.

A few examples of what I mean:

Spoiler

 

[Lacrymas]

I've always despised over-the-top particle effects, it fills the screen with colored shit and it's hard to see anything. It also feels compensatory.