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Europa Universalis IV

Beastro

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I mean, the Austrians, usually (although often with an element of delusion) reckoned as among the principal powers of Europe, still managed to lose a war or two to the Ottomans outright in the period following Ottoman stagnation and the loss of Carpathia.

Yeah, being the dominant power in Central Europe for centuries and spending most of it not only sandwiched between the Ottomans and France but enduring their onslaughts and playing a central role in checking their power and eventually defeating both, totally not a Great Power.
 

vmar

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So I think I'm gonna buy eu4 next time it gets a steam sale, which dlcs are must haves? I'm guessing some of them aren't really needed, like the music packs or unit packs, unless I plan on using those civilizations.

I read somewhere that you have to buy certain dlcs to have access to all the patches so I'm mainly worried about those.
 

MoLAoS

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So I think I'm gonna buy eu4 next time it gets a steam sale, which dlcs are must haves? I'm guessing some of them aren't really needed, like the music packs or unit packs, unless I plan on using those civilizations.

I read somewhere that you have to buy certain dlcs to have access to all the patches so I'm mainly worried about those.
Just buy all the content DLC if they are on sale. The game is crippled if you don't have them. Don't do any sale less than 50% off though, not worth the cost.
 

Hoodoo

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To be fair, in the 1500s the great Islamic gunpowder empires of the Ottomans, Mughals, and to a lesser extent the Safavids were just getting into high gear.

They were overblown joke Empires who fell completely flat at the first sign of serious pressure. Ottomans being a boogueyman was nothing more than what North Korea is today. Even as they were nearing Vienna the Emperor found France to be more troubling. And for good reason, they got curbstomped.

There's also the short-lived star of the Saadis in Morrocco, who decisively defeated and killed the Portuegese King at Ksar El Kebir in 1578, modernized aggressively, and managed successful if ultimately counterproductive imperial conquests in sub-Saharan Africa.

Does every third world apologist has their pet kingdom who's importance they overblown? Morrocco, the nascent empire :lol:. Even when France and England tried to pay them they couldn't get to colonize south America.

I mean, the Austrians, usually (although often with an element of delusion) reckoned as among the principal powers of Europe, still managed to lose a war or two to the Ottomans outright in the period following Ottoman stagnation and the loss of Carpathia.

Name of the war please? Are you referring to the one time they kicked the Ottoman's ass but couldn't afford to strike back because of Louis 14 and agreed to an unfavorable peace?

Moreover, one can say that the Spanish Empire, the beacon of the first phase of early modern Imperialism, underwent a cycle of ascendancy->stagnation->ruin analogous in magnitude, persistence, and timing to that experienced by, say, the Mughals and the Ottomans;

Spanish decadence? Did the Ottomans colonize an entire continent on their own while single handily being engaged in every European conflict as far as the Eastern steppes while also fighting for and gaining naval supremacy in every seas and oceans imaginable? Didn't think so.
 

Serus

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vmar

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Just buy all the content DLC if they are on sale.

By content dlc do you mean the dlcs that have Content Pack in the name, such as "Common Sense Content Pack" etc?

EU4 is 75% off right now, so I'd like to grab it, but idk if I should get the EU4 collection or just buy the base game and get the dlcs I need for patches and improvements and stuff like that. It looks like most of the dlc in the collection are music/unit packs which don't really matter that much to me until I get a feel for the game so I'm guessing I can just buy the game and all the dlcs that add features, while ignoring the music/art books/etc?
 

MoLAoS

Guest
Just buy all the content DLC if they are on sale.

By content dlc do you mean the dlcs that have Content Pack in the name, such as "Common Sense Content Pack" etc?

EU4 is 75% off right now, so I'd like to grab it, but idk if I should get the EU4 collection or just buy the base game and get the dlcs I need for patches and improvements and stuff like that. It looks like most of the dlc in the collection are music/unit packs which don't really matter that much to me until I get a feel for the game so I'm guessing I can just buy the game and all the dlcs that add features, while ignoring the music/art books/etc?

yeah i ignore music and graphics packs.
 

Raghar

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Spanish decadence? Did the Ottomans colonize an entire continent on their own while single handily being engaged in every European conflict as far as the Eastern steppes while also fighting for and gaining naval supremacy in every seas and oceans imaginable? Didn't think so.

But they lost.
 

Delterius

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You gotta give props for the turks for babysitting middle hell for a few centuries. America is going to collapse a few decades after invading Iraq while Ottomans still held their ground decently enough when europe-wide coalitions formed against them in Vienna, or when Russia, Austria, Britain, France and everyone inside the damn place wanted a piece of them.
 
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Hoodoo

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The Ottomans collapsed as soon as Britain and France cut off life support so I really don't see where you're coming from.
 

Hoodoo

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France and Britain never wanted a piece of the Ottomans empire until they forced their hands. Napoleon took half of their empire with an expeditionary corp until the British intervened. There was a strong diplomatic and material support to prevent the Russian and Austrian empires from marching on Constantinople since at least the 18th century. The french king was offered Egypt for free by the Habsburg and turned down the offer.

There never was a single ''Europe wide'' coalition formed against the Ottoman Empire.
 

Delterius

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Oh yes countries talk about partitioning each other fairly often. That still somehow took a long time to happen even after napoleons invasion of egypt and the collapse of turkiash supremacy. The otomans still had enough geopolitical standing not to go the way of poland and the region was complex enough that anatolia was not partitioned after world war one by a handful of invading powers.
 

Hoodoo

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The long Turkish war was certainly not European wide, ended in Ottoman failure to secure any of their goals. The great Turkish war had Russia and Poland on top of the usual Habsurg sphere of influence, but Russia did precisely nothing aside from fighting an unrelated war against logistics in the Crimean steppes, while Poland you can say counterbalanced the fact that the Habsburg were already fully engaged in the endless wars against Louis 14.

The Ottomans survived only because both the British and the French somehow agreed on one thing. Considering they were always leading the opposite sides of European wide alliance networks that made a march on Constantinople a difficult set up.
 

Delterius

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Shush, there's new stuff to bitch about. In fact... talking about the Ottomans:

Hello and welcome to today's development diary for Europa Universalis IV. It's actually a well earned(?) day off for me but I'm doing a once unthinkable thing and working a bit from home. Last week I said we would take a look at a very influential dynasty of the time period. Sorry to disappoint all the Velikopermsky and Dandani fans out there, but I had the Osmanoglus on my mind.

It would be an understatement to say that the Ottomans gave the world a good shaking in this time period. Furthermore, they are one of the more commonly played nations in EUIV. We wanted to give them a little something to bring out their unique flavour since it was always a shame that they are a run-of-the-mill Sultanate. It has also been pointed out on numerous occasions the oddity of a situation where you have the Ottoman nation..without an Osmanoglu at the helm.

So to that end, in the still-unnamed upcoming expansion we have added a unique government type for them: The Ottoman Sultanate.

The Ottoman Sultanate does not generate heirs like normal monarchies do. The ruler of the Ottoman Sultanate will have their own Harem to ensure the dynasty lives on. At the age of 30, your ruler will select one of his sons to be the heir to the throne. They will, of course, be of your dynasty

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So an Ottoman Sultanate shall always be blessed by the strong line of Osmanoglus. That is to say unless the Sultan dies without an heir. In that case, they'll still end up with an Osmanoglu. "Blessed" can be a relative term here.

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There are a couple dozen events accompanying this unique government type to simulate the power struggle and intrigue of such a succession system and should add a couple of fangs to that already formidable Ottomans.

While this is unique to the Ottomans, any modders out there can easily allow this for other government types with the has_harem = yes line.

I feel like we're on a roll when it comes to governments and rulers so here's another thing for today's Development Diary. Abdication.

Yes, it has long been a requested feature in Europa Universalis. When Enrique or his low-stat kind just refuses to die you can abdicate and let your next in line take over. This requires you to have an of-age heir and to have either ruled for 25 years or be 60+ years old. It will come with a considerable hit to your legitimacy/unity and prestige but I think we've all had times where we wanted our monarch to Die Please Die.

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Ottoman Sultanate and Abdication are both paid features in the upcoming expansion which we have magically managed to keep unleaked name-wise.

I've been mentioning a lot of paid features lately but it's good to remind ourselves that with all the paid expansions come free bugfixes and features from the accompanying patch. A small change that will be coming up in 1.18 that I want to share is to do with succession wars. I'm not to happy with how right now, they have two conclusions: Either the new overlord keeps their union or the nation fighting them over it take leadership over the union for themselves. Now, we will add a peace option which simply breaks the union for all parties involved.

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Simple, sensible, and added free in 1.18 for those times where you just want to keep the status quo. Warscore cost scales with the junior partner's size.

Happy midsummer everyone, I'm off to....oh, right, I need to tease upcoming Diaries. Hrmm~ Well, we've touched a lot on rulers but would you believe it, we're not quite done with the changes in the throne room. We'll come to that in the future. As for next week, we'll switch it up on the battlefield. See you then!
There's more. Welcome to Crusader Universalis, Victoria before-diaries:

Hello and welcome to today's development diary for Europa Universalis IV. After much plotting and espionage, I have assumed direct control over these diaries, at least for the upcoming months while Johan enjoys some paternity leave.

The feeling of power this gives is immense. EU4 will allow you a similar feeling with a new feature in the upcoming expansion: Great Powers

In 1.18's accompanying expansion, which has yet to be name-dropped, we will grant the 8 most powerful countries in the world a "Great Power" status, granting them bonuses, new diplomatic options and, perhaps most importantly, a glow around your shield to show that you are the superior nation.

Before we address the shiny options and bonuses available to you, let's tackle the question of how to become a Great Power. As we had mentioned in a previous diary, the technology system is getting an overhaul and the Great Power mechanic will make use of this too. Your ranking as a Great Power depends on your Total Development plus half of your Subject Development, then divided by your tech cost. This ensures that early game, large powers such as Ming and Timurids will enjoy Great Power status but as Other powers rise and they lag behind with embracing new institutions, this status will be lost. Of course, If Ming, for example, stays united and forward thinking, they may not lose this status at all. Subject Nations cannot be Great Powers

As a great power you will enjoy a Power Projection bonus. One commonly raised issue is that if you are a huge power without equal your Power Projection is oddly low, since you cannot have any meaningful rivals. The greatest of the Great Powers will enjoy a +25 Power Projection bonus, with the other 7 gaining an increasingly smaller amount with rank 8 getting +10PP. Additionally, great powers will receive a prestige decay reduction. Other modifiers will likely be added before release as we continue to balance the system.

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Bonuses are all very well and good, but where's the fun in being great if you can't enforce your will on lesser beings? Four new diplomatic options are opened up uniquely for Great Powers:

Take on Foreign Debt – Pay off all the loans of the target independent non-GP country. Gives +10 relations bonus for every standard size loan of the target you clear, capped at +200, decaying 2/year Also grants +1 trust for every loan cleared, or +2 favours if you have The Cossacks. Requires enough money to pay off target’s loans.

Influence Nation – Pay 1 year of target income to increase relations and grant +1 monarch points in their weakest category for 10 years in a target independent non-GP nation. This raises their opinion of you by 25 for the 10 years, also gives +5 trust. Going to war with them cancels this bonus.

Intervene in War– If there is an ongoing war between great powers but an imbalance in the number of GPs involved, you can make it your business to intervene. For example, if GP Britain is singlehandedly fighting GP France and GP Spain, you as a Great Power Commonwealth can intervene on Great Britain's side to balance out the number of great powers involved.

Break Alliance – This will force a nation to break its alliance with another. They will accept if the target nation is sufficiently afraid of you and you will gain a truce with the nation you force this upon. Useful for stripping your war target of pesky roadblocks.

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Finally, you will want to hold on to your status as a great power. If you are pushed out of the top 8 nations, you will be given a 5 year grace period to regain your Great Power Score. During this time you will still have access to Great Power options but if you cannot regain your standing then you will lose them until you rise again or topple those who would claim to be greater than you.

Current 1444 Great Powers:

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As usual, the nitty-gritty numbers are very much subject to change as we refine the features.

Great Powers will be available as a paid feature in the upcoming expansion, which will be released alongside the 1.18 patch.

Next week we'll be in the presence of our King/Khan/Chief/Sultan/Emperor/Malik, so I hope you're on your best behavior.

Hello and welcome to today's development diary for Europa Universalis IV. Let's take a good look at our King/Khan/Doge/Emperor/Prince.

The ruler of your state is of prime importance to your nation but when you see your new heir birthed or khan taking the throne, it's often a quick look at their 3 monarch point stats followed by either a face palm or a fist pump. As a feature in the upcoming expansion we will be giving a touch more identity to these walking point generators with Ruler Personalities.

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When a ruler comes of age they will develop a personality important to the function of the state. They will develop another trait after ruling for 10 years and a further personality after ruling for a total of 25 years. These personalities will grant a modifier for your nation as well as bonus options in event and changes to the AI's actions. For Duke Francois do Dreux here, he has become a careful individual who will enjoy lower AE in expansion.

Most personalities are a boon for your nation but not all are so positive. While it would be lovely if all your rulers were Just, Incorruptible and Charismatic, you may well find that your ruler is too greedy for their own good like Vilhelm Skram of Denmark.

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King Vilhelm is a tight-fisted greedy guts and will hoover up 10% of your tax income, but there is a silver lining to his greed. Many events have unlockable options now depending on your monarch's personality which will almost always be a superior option. Obscurantism will normally cost a nation in unrest or prestige, but greedy desires drive Vilhelm to seek out a more...lucrative path.

All personalities will unlock such options in some events, as well as have events of their own. Who knows what your Scholarly King or Malevolent Khan will get up to?

Ruler Personalities will be a paid feature in the upcoming expansion, which will be sold alongside the free 1.18 patch.

While on the subject of monarchs, we will be paying special attention to a very influential dynasty of the time period next week, but for now I must take leave. Vilhelm has shaken me down for every ducat I own and I must take care of this.

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Vaarna_Aarne

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The Great Power options and mechanic seems very good indeed, particularly something like Intervention (sorely missing from a historical perspective until now, given how there was no hegemon in Europe and actions to preserve the balance of power were taken regularly, whether France and England against Habsburgs or almost everyone against France).
 
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The Great Powers mechanics are nice, but needs somesort of diplorange thing but regional.

Wouldn't make sense for asians who never heard of europeans to consider France a great power. I mean, France who? Then there's Africa and the Americas...

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Hoodoo

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No alliance reversals, and I can bet you can't intervene for a rival (dumb mechanic btw). As long as there's no sensible diplomatic councils solution this game won't reach its projected scope.
 

Delterius

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A diplomatic council sounds like something akin to the concert of europe. That's more of a Vicky thing, IMO.

The Great Powers mechanics are nice, but needs somesort of diplorange thing but regional.

Wouldn't make sense for asians who never heard of europeans to consider France a great power. I mean, France who? Then there's Africa and the Americas...

Like I said, don't think of this as a sort of early version of the XIXth century great power mechanics. This is just EU recognizing a handful of super countries who, by virtue of prestige, landmass, population or what have you get a natural backyard. They get to intervene in the world in special ways.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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The Great Powers mechanics are nice, but needs somesort of diplorange thing but regional.

Wouldn't make sense for asians who never heard of europeans to consider France a great power. I mean, France who? Then there's Africa and the Americas...
Generally speaking it'd need some manner of isolationism vs dynamism/subjective vs absolute advantage sort of mechanic to properly reflect the decline of the enormous Asian empires and the rise of in absolute terms much smaller European countries and empires. It'd also require much improved slave trade and Triangle/Square Trade model and the perils of vast and tempting resources like that of Cerro de Potosi (the Spanish silver mines in Americas managed to single-handedly end the great power period of Spain for good). It'd also require a trade system that would operate on a local, regional, and global level and which would not use preset routes or centers (aside from obvious geographical spots like the Danish Straits or Malacca Straits which are natural control points for traffic; it would also provide natural enticement to try and bypass these potentially expensive problems) with two-directional effects (so China actually does end up with a fuckhueg pile of money from its enormous exports and minimal imports) along the zones and routes instead of just piling cash, and instead of simply merchant presence a key factor should be in the capacity and presence of your merchant marine as a way of putting that naval power to a secondary use (and providing a potential Achilles Heel) so you can be like the Dutch or the Portuguese and make a fortune HAULING those trade goods around rather than producing all of it yourself. Asiento and ahistorical similar treaties between Great Powers that affect huge areas should also be present and a big part of things like Great Power peace treaty conferences (where again the line should be fine between maintaining the status quo and everyone getting a little something). Trade goods should also be less set in stone, and manufactured goods should also be a major factor (most importantly, cannon, tar, and firearms).

An isolationist great power would do very little to interact with the outside world and instead focus on internal stability and status quo with its neighbours, and general withdrawal from the world and dedication towards something strange and unusual. See, the enormous resources Ming dynasty put into building the Great Wall, or the Ottoman ban on exporting domestic produce (wat). Essentially limited diplomacy and trade, as well as technological deterioration as well as decay bubbling beneath the surface waiting for ITZ to happen and tear the empire apart or replace it with fanatical advocates of different hairstyles. Naturally the kind of thing that makes your empire turn inward instead of look outward happens gradually when you become one of those guys who are so powerful on paper that they have no valid rivals (which presumably Mughals, China, and Ottomans would end up with after they establish total dominance in their neighbourhood in terms of sheer size and wealth).

Another mechanic to accompany this change should be transition towards modern militaries, which should favour smaller to mid-sized (read: European), where efficient administration and organization is required to deal with the challenges of fielding an army as dominant as that of Louis XIV. Most importantly, unit tech having tiers needs to be done away with and instead a fluid and only partially technology-linked system of national military organization needs to replace it (so them honest injuns can get their boomsticks and horses, as well as firewater) with gradual shift from mercenaries and kidnapped locals to standing armies.

So in short, you need a system that emphasises the growing economic interconnections the world over and the natural desire of local major players to preserve the balance of power between them. And the goddamn Swedes need to stop trying to prop up Sweden-Finland by giving it so much Fur when Fur trade in my opinion wouldn't qualify for a settled province's trade good (it should be something for extremely sparsely populated areas that don't have a proper trade good, like Siberia or French America, which makes up for their otherwise low development value). Goddammit our economy was based on two things: Copper and tar. So include that fucking tar instead of sneaking in massive cash potential with all that Fur. On that note, I would think it'd be a great idea for the game to be able to separate a high-development province's center or middle of its coast as a mini-province to reflect a major urban center (with a limit of X urban centers based on development, technology, and national ideas) which is where manufactured trade goods would come from and which grow by passively "eating" nearby development assigned to their urban sphere (or by colonial immigration in case of decentralized free colonies) or active player nudging one way or the other.
 

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