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A/B both sound like they'll be interesting. I think A is the more probable solution here. I also would rather not have our rep as a badass damaged by refusing this challenge - esp. since we already backed down from BJ's.

Our rep as an utter badass is pretty useful - take this situation for example: the only reason they didn't dogpile us is because of our rep. Without it, this may have all gotten really messy really fast...
 

TOME

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Our rep as an utter badass is pretty useful - take this situation for example: the only reason they didn't dogpile us is because of our rep. Without it, this may have all gotten really messy really fast...

The only reason they almost dogpiled us is because of our rep. Other than Songfeng no one would have had anything against us and their master forbid attacking us. So our reputation was the thing that almost led to a fight.
 

Nevill

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TOME said:
The only reason they almost dogpiled us is because of our rep.
Our rep is two-fold. The one of a badass fighter - the one we made for ourselves - is fine. The one of a disciple of the most vicious murderer in existence - the one our master made for us - is not.
We need to make the first one more prominent than the other.
 
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treave

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B wins it, I suppose.

A few points to note:

1. You are the newly crowned youth champion, and won the tournament with a very impressive showing. Just like the major sects being able to refuse your challenges without any 'honor penalty' if you came to them with little reputation to speak of, refusing to escalate the current situation and fight a minor school will also not do your reputation any real harm.

2. If a little kid challenges an adult to a fight where the adult's victory is certain, the adult is supposed to show restraint by not rising to the challenge, not beat the child down mercilessly (or as the proverb goes, great man not mind petty man's fault). In this case, public perspective is that you are the 'adult', because no one in the hall is actually delusional enough to rate six Songfeng disciples against one Zhang Jue's disciple except maybe the Songfeng students themselves.

3. You are now putting your reputation on the line with B. That might not be ideal.

4. C was the best choice in the long run.
 

Nevill

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treave said:
2. If a little kid challenges an adult to a fight where the adult's victory is certain, the adult is supposed to show restraint by not rising to the challenge, not beat the child down mercilessly.
Are those the only two alternatives? To ignore, or to beat mercilessly? What about spanking the insolent kid?

treave said:
3. You are now putting your reputation on the line with B. That might not be ideal.
So what will happen if we forfeit the challenge in favor of a successful completition of our real mission? Isn't that the wisest choice? Let the kids play around, and do the hard work they can't?

The only thing that is worth taking seriously here is the extermination of the pirates. Not the Songfeng challenge, and certainly not this contest they came up with to keep things from falling apart.
 
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Kipeci

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C was best, huh? Shocker. Who would've thought that the powerful man who organized all of this maybe knew what he was talking about better than some punk kids or the guy who we only know through his being publicly busted as a huge hypocrite? At least we avoided A.
 

Nevill

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Kipeci said:
C was best, huh? Shocker.
Hey, it is easy to puff your cheeks and say 'I told you so' when the correct answer is confirmed for you.

I haven't heard your actual argument for it, except for 'r00fles'.

...Not to say it wasn't a compelling one.
 
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treave

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Are those the only to alternatives? To ignore, or to beat mersilessly? What about spanking the insolent kid?

Maybe if you were some Taichi master, wise and calm in the way of all things.

You're not. You're a practitioner of killing techniques, and these mooks don't have anywhere near enough neigong to trade blows with you without getting injured, especially if they overestimate their own strength and resilience. It would just have ended with all of them being put out of commission.

Or you might want to make a mockery of them instead? Strip them, perhaps? If that's how you respond to someone who has publicly claimed a blood vendetta against you, don't expect to be respected for it, unless you are planning on claiming that you never killed Rong Zhiyu and thus their accusations deserve to be mocked as blatant lies. But the character hasn't thrown away his conscience to that extent yet.

I'm not saying A won't increase your reputation, or that it didn't have any merit at all. But if you were to look at the type of reputation it gives you, it would be cultivating one more of fear, rather than respect. The whole 'omg he's so awesome and manly we are in good hands for the pirate-busting guys swoon respect bros 4eva' scenario some of you seemed to be hoping for was just not going to happen. They already know you are strong.

So what will happen if we forfeit the challenge in favor of a successful completition of our real mission? Isn't that the wisest choice? Let the kids play around, and do the hard work they can't?

What is your real mission?

And if you're going to forfeit the challenge, then you shouldn't have taken it in the first place. At any rate, it is possible to lose the challenge.
 

Kipeci

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That's fair, I never put a proper one out. I was gunning for B much of the time and said that bit about the reverse contest for one hundred heads being great, so it's kinda scummy for me to be that obnoxious when I flopped some hours before.

Whoever straight voted C absolutely has that right, though.
 

Nevill

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treave said:
You're a practitioner of killing techniques, and these mooks don't have anywhere near enough neigong to trade blows with you without getting injured, especially if they overestimate their own strength and resilience. It would just have ended with all of them being put out of commission.

Or you might want to make a mockery of them instead?
No, what I had in mind was dispatching them quickly and cleanly, without resorting to tearing out their hearts with Shouwang Mad Claws or something like that. With our AGI as high as it is, we are not in danger of being seriously hit by those guys. If we are the adult in this situation, we can take them without going all out.

What were the rules of the challenge? I expected there to be some sort of losing conditions besides knocking your opponent out cold - like a ring-out, or touching the ground in the horce-dancing contest. You usually find these things in challenges that aren't duels to the death. Throw them out of the ring, and that's that. At least, that is what I thought.

Brute-forcing them is kind of stupid, and our character didn't behave that way in the tournament at all, with the exception of Guo Fu. So it's not like I didn't have a reason to think like I did.

treave said:
What is your real mission?

And if you're going to forfeit the challenge, then you shouldn't have taken it in the first place.
To stop the pirates.

If a choice arises between gunning for the prize and stopping an actual threat, are we expected to do the former to 'save face'? If a ship managed to get away, or someone is taken hostage, are we still supposed to continue playing the game?

What are the consequences of losing that challenge? This whole thing started as a mean to prove our right to participate in the mission. Either this, or silence the Songfeng bunch, or promise your best behavior. So what happens if we lose the said right after completing the mission? :D Isn't the whole idea just a cop-out attempt by the masters?

I suppose the worst that will happen is that we won't get our share of loot... is there anything else to consider?
 
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treave

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Well obviously you aren't going to go all out like you did against Guo Fu. That would kill them. But even without going all out you aren't going to put them down without hurting them in any way. You aren't trained for that, you don't have any techniques that focus on incapacitating an opponent gently. When you actually fight, if your opponent isn't strong enough they are going to get injured.

If I'm not mistaken, I mentioned before that regular duels don't usually involve the concept of ring-outs. For this one, first person to lose loses, and losing here is a rather subjective thing that translates to 'he should know when he has lost'.

As far as the pirate hunt is concerned, this was never about proving whether you were worthy enough to participate in this mission. In terms of strength you definitely qualify. It's more of whether they can trust you to have their back, that you're not going to go all Zhang Jue on them and decide that the orthodox pugilists are going to make for better fighting than the pirates and turn on them halfway through the mission because it's just too damn boring slaughtering helpless pirates. With the challenge at least there's a goal that you might work towards, a goal that helps them even if you are the one to achieve it, and accepting it means you are at least considering the concept of working with them.

As for whatever choice you want to make in whatever scenario that occurs, whether it is forfeiting or not, that is up to you. It just so happens that you don't need to make that sort of choice if you don't take the challenge in the first place. Simple as that.
 
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Nevill

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treave said:
You aren't trained for that, you don't have any techniques that focus on incapacitating an opponent gently.
By the way, we have a substantial (well, average) understanding of Pressure Points. Is there a way to incorporate it into our fighting techniques to possibly make them more/less lethal?

What can we do with it at our current skill level?
 

treave

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You can freeze someone if they happen to be still long enough for you to strike the required pressure points. Not doable in combat, even with your high agility, because your perception is not that amazing. Techniques can help improve the rate of success but again, you don't have any. Rank it up to 6 and you'll be able to pull it off against weaker opponents consistently. Or pick up a technique that allows you to maximize your knowledge of the skill.
 
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treave, I know you are a much better writer then I am or probably ever could be, and I am really enjoying this game. But might I make a suggestion? I really dislike straight out-of-character info dumps, and in particular of the type where it is stated what the other options would lead to - those always then influence the rest of the game. If we needed to learn this, maybe it would be better if we did that in the update, by having some character (like maybe our scholar) tell us his opinion.
 

Nevill

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I am really, really holding back the urge to ask about the possible outcomes of our first encounter with Qingcheng Sect, and a hundred of similar questions. I can only hope the flowcharts will see the light of day after the game (or maybe the current plotline) ends. But I must agree with Zero Credibility here. I would much rather find out the ramifications of our actions - both the ones we have taken, and the ones we only speculated about - from the game itself. And if we have no way to confirm it in-game, then the information is lost to us, at least until the game ends. Choices and consequences.
 

Kayerts

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I've barely been active in this thread, but I like the what-if infodumps. Here's why!

1. CYOAs don't have transparent mechanics. When there are conflicting variables applied toward a given outcome, the result is resolved using a model of the world that only the GM is privy to. More information about different resolutions gives players a better sense of the rules they're playing by and what factors they should be paying attention to. To the extent that the thread is a game, I think that makes it a more interesting game.

2. It showcases more of the setting and gives us an idea of how things work in it. To the extent that the thread's a collaborative storytelling effort, I think that makes it a richer one.
 

Nevill

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Why not have an afterparty once the chapter ends, then? It is the best of both worlds.
 

treave

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Well, of course it'd be better and more immersive if I did all exposition in-character. But unfortunately I'm a very lazy writer. :lol: If I have the time and inclination perhaps I could try, but banging out long, expository updates is going to be more of a rarity nowadays. And more often than not I miss things because hey, this should be really fucking obvious to everyone, but it ends up only being really fucking obvious to the writer and no one else, which is why editors have a job. So, I figure OOC info-dumps are needed, particularly when I get sloppy. Particularly if it's something that's not vital to the plot, but to the understanding of the setting. The amount of tags I get asking me for further clarifications is testament to that.

I'm not a big fan of people arguing over a misconception due to unclear writing and wasting their own time, so that's why I sometimes try to moderate the discussion and keep it focused on the points that should matter. But eh, if you guys like it vague, fair enough.

Besides, there's nothing important revealed about the other options at all, which I think is the point of contention here.

I mean, it's not like I let slip that

:smug:

Or revealed that

:troll:
 

Baltika9

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Nah, keep the infodumps. I like them and they provide us with lots of lulz.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
A Maiden’s Request

“Master Gong’s proposition sounds interesting,” you say, directing your words at the Songfeng disciples. “Rather than fighting each other, turning Zhou Manor into the site of a bloodbath, and risking the success of the mission, why don’t we make this into a challenge? Reach the pirate leader before I do, and take his head, and you can say that you have bested me. I will agree to that.”

As the other pugilists quietly pressure the Songfeng disciples to agree, Rong Muben speaks up. “That will be an acceptable condition. Still, I am sorry, Master Zhou, but I cannot participate in this personally. However, I will instruct my disciples to give you their utmost cooperation.” Having said his piece, he steps back and returns to his seat, a sour look on his face. His students, similarly irate, mumble their agreement, though they mutter accusations of cowardice under their breath. You smile at them and give the customary salute of an open palm over closed fist. They do not return it.

“Good,” sighs Zhou Dingqiu in relief. “That is settled, then. The preparations are well underway, and we will depart in a day’s time. If any of you have any further questions, you will always be welcome at my manor.” With that, the gathering disperses. Many are still uneasy at your participation, throwing suspicious glances at you as they leave. It does not really matter to you one way or another though – once the mission commences, acting in concert with the orthodox pugilists would only serve to slow you down.

***

Making your way through the streets of Yangzhou, you begin heading back towards the ramshackle hut that now serves as your temporary lodgings. Reaching a narrow street corner, you turn into the narrow alley suddenly, pulling Yu along with you.

“What’s the matter?” he asks.

“It’s happening sooner than I expected.” You gesture at him to move further in. Then, you wait.

You hear footsteps approaching your position, their pace picking up now that they are After a few seconds, the owner of the footsteps appears. She gives a gasp when she sees you waiting for her in the alley, taking an involuntary step backwards.

“Miss Zhou.” You give her a curt greeting. “A rather bold thing for a young maiden to do, running after two men in broad daylight.”

She shakes her head and frowns at you. “I was going to call out to you when we reached a more appropriate place to discuss matters. I suppose this place is appropriate enough.” Without any hint of worry, she steps into the alley, giving you a stare as if daring you to do your worst.

“Well, to come after me alone you have more balls than any of the Songfeng disciples at least,” you murmur. “What is it that you want to discuss?”

Miss Zhou nods and begins. “I have a request-“

“Why?”

“You’re asking why? You haven’t even heard my request yet!” she says, looking puzzled.

“You want me to take you to the pirates’ island?” you say.

“How did you know that?”

You sigh. “A lucky guess.” You are probably the only person she could ask, after all, and her intentions were rather transparent from her expressions during the meeting. “Why do you want to go there, and how do you think I can help you? Keep your replies to four words.” Xiahou Yu laughs in approval.

“To rescue a friend,” she replies quickly.

“Who is this friend?”

“Childhood friend, merchant’s daughter,” says the girl again.

“Captured by the pirates?”

“No, she went willingly.”

“Why did she go?”

“She married a pirate.”

“Wait, what?” This does not seem to be going the way you expected it to go. You had thought that the young mistress of Zhou Manor was going along to prove her skills, sick of being cloistered in the manor, or some such similar story. “That means she’s also a pirate now, right? More or less.”

“Yes, so I want to rescue her from the attack tomorrow.”

“Which means…”

“I can have a boat prepared within the hour. If you are willing to assist me, we will set sail for Tielou Island tonight.”

“You’re basically asking me to warn the pirates that an attack is coming,” you say in disbelief. “An attack planned by your own father, because you want to save the life of your friend.”

“Is that wrong? From what I've heard, the pirates are only pillaging to survive. At any rate, what is important to me is getting my friend away from the island.”

“Well, ethically and legally, yes,” interjects Xiahou Yu. “In so far as deeds are accomplished, they should be accomplished for the greater good. The pirates plunder what is not rightfully theirs and inflict suffering upon the populace. The needs of the many outweigh the life of one person.”

Miss Zhou peers at him, before saying, “Hey, didn’t I see you walking the streets one time in nothing but a sackcloth?”

“I do not remember,” he says flatly. It must have been one of his episodes – you probably do not want to give him any more access to alcohol any time soon, even if he has vowed to never drink it again.

“Well, I don’t see why you need us along,” you say.

“She may be my friend, but that does not mean that I would like to walk into their den alone. Even if I can protect myself, I would feel safer with more fighters on my side,” she explains.

“Right. Does your friend speak their language?” you ask.

“Not as far as I know.”

“Do any of them speak our language?”

“I don’t know,” she says, shaking her head. If her friend had married one of them surely they could communicate somehow… right?

“I know a bit of the Nippon language that the Wo speak,” says Xiahou Yu. “I studied it for a few weeks as part of my self-education on foreign policy.”

“My friend, the brilliant scholar. Whatever would I do without you?” you say with a strained chuckle. “What will you do if we refuse, Miss Zhou?”

“What can I do? I may have to take matters into my own hands, but that will be no concern of yours,” she says politely. You are not exactly sure what she will do; perhaps she might chance going it alone, perhaps she might not. That is no concern of yours, is it?

***

A. You agree and go along with her to meet the pirates before the mission begins. It will be extremely risky, but it will give you the chance to turn adversity into opportunity. You can decide what to do with the pirates after you set foot on the island – this will give you a headstart on the other pugilists anyway.

B. You attempt to convince her that you can save her friend on the day of the attack itself. She will definitely still insist on coming along, which means that you will have to find a way to sneak her onboard the ship underneath her father’s nose. If he finds out... well, you think you might be swimming back to the mainland.

C. You report her plans to her father so that he keeps an eye on her. This is far too risky a plan for any maiden to conduct. By having Zhou Dingqiu place her under lock and key, she should be kept safe and out of harm’s way during the mission. You might still keep an eye out for her friend, but that won't be your priority.

D. You reject her proposal, but do not do anything else. There is no need to undertake extra measures for this particular mission – what will be will be.
 
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Baltika9

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To quote a dear friend of Ean's:
Edem said:
For fuck’s sake...
The girl is going to get herself in trouble with anything but A and C, and between the two I prefer A. Let's add yet another Sis to our menagerie, and engage in wanton pirate slaughter in the name of Zhang at the same time.
 

Nevill

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Seriously, is there anything else to say? C.

A for Awesome.
 
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Baltika9

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Seriously, is there anything else to say?
Well, A is exactly the thing a grumpy tsundere like Jing would do. Of course, the Songfeng guys will accuse us of cheating, but we don't give a shit.
 

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