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Devil Whiskey dev chat log

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Devil Whiskey dev chat log

Interview - posted by Saint_Proverbius on Wed 8 October 2003, 04:23:09

Tags: Devil Whiskey; Shifting Suns Studios

[Saint_Proverbius] Welp, I have 8PM.. So, I figure, we can run this unmoderated if we stay mostly on topic.
[EEVIAC_] I'm hoping to get a D&D t-shirt with my Australian ToEE preorder - to bring my total game t-shirt collection to 2.
[Justin] Hi all!
[Justin] I guess I'll start with an introduction
[Justin] of myself and my compatriot
[Justin] My name is Justin Binns - I'm the lead developer for Devil Whiskey
[Justin] I've been with the team since very early on, before DW was even really conceptualized
[Justin] and I'm also the CEO of Shifting Suns Studios, LLC, which is the company behind DW.
[Justin] My compatriot here is Phil Martin
[FyL] howdy
[Justin] Phil - a little about yourself?
[FyL] ok
[FyL] I had been interested in DW for a while, and thought I'd volunteer my efforts to help them with the game
[FyL] Justin and co. were kind enough to let me help them out, and since February, I've been actively developing the game
[Saint_Proverbius] What aspect of the game do you two do? Codebase? Content?
[Split_404] how many devolopers are there?
[Justin] There are a couple others I've invited from the team who may jump in shortly also - I'll introduce them as they show up.
* Senrats has joined #RPGCodex
[Justin] there's one now
[FyL] speak of the devil
[Senrats] Jon is here now...
[Justin] Jon Starnes has been with the group since before me
[Justin] he's responsible for lots of things, perhaps most notably all the music in the game
[Justin] Phil and I are promarily codemonkeys
[Justin] though I've had a hand in lots of different aspects
[Justin] including the intro video, the credit sequence, and the entire Quest for the Cloak sub-plot (which is the main point in the Demo)
[Shevek] I gotta ask, we talked a bit earlier about some of the more unsavory bits of bard's tale. I not a super HC gamer but I know my way around an rpg and earlier when i tried to play bard's tale, to get a better handle on dw and the like, I found I couldnt last over a minute. I hateto be a spokemen for the streamlining of any game but, man, Im curious, what are you guys doing to streamline BT and how do you feel abouthaving t
[FyL] we all try to pitch in to get it all done.
[Justin] There are probably about a dozen developers who have significantly contributed to teh game.
[SiiX|ToEE] there is a demo out?
[Justin] check out http://www.devilwhiskey.com
[Justin] there's links ot the download on the main page
[SiiX|ToEE] great :D
[Justin] I want to be very clear - we didn't develop a BT game.
[Senrats] Hello all. I've been sort of in hiatus for a few months but I'm back. Streamline...
[Justin] this isn't Bard's Tale
[Senrats] Right
[Split_404] Will there be options to adjust the text scroll speed in the full version? and what about coloring the text for ease on our eyes?
[Justin] Having gotten that out of the way, we think we've taken the best of those old games and made something new
[Justin] that we can enjoy ;-)
[Justin] and we hope you can enjoy it too
[Senrats] We WERE highly inspired by the BT games and most of us met through a listserve dedicated to Bards Tale.
[Justin] split, there are actually ways to control the text now
[Justin] and there is a text brightness setting in the 1.1 patch
[Justin] you can slow the combat text scroll using the '[' key, and speed it up with ']'
[Justin] it's not very sensitive, so hit it several times
[Justin] you can slow it all the way to 3 seconds delay per message
[SiiX|ToEE] is it turn based combat? like wizardry
[Justin] (and speed it up to 1/10 of a second)
[Justin] yep
[SiiX|ToEE] kk
[FyL] I'd like to note that using those same keys will also effect the speed that time passes while resting
[Justin] completely turn-based - you decide what you want to do, it goes into an initiative list, and things happen, then you start again the next round.
[Split_404] what kind of support (bug squashing) can people expect who buy the full version?
[Justin] whatever we can do, we will
[Justin] Shifting Suns Studios, who houses Devil Whiskey
[Justin] is made up of a team of folks dedicated to this game, and to continuing in the entertainment market in the future
[Ausir] well, DW looks more like Bard's Tale than InXile BT does :)
[Justin] but right now, we're all working full-time jobs elsewhere, as well.
[Senrats] Ausir... hehe
[Justin] so our time constraints mean we can't promise anything, but in reality, we will continue to evolve the game.
[Justin] we've already released a 1.1 update for the demo
[Justin] and a 1.2 will be out this weekend
[Split_404] what about colored text question?
[FyL] So far as bug squashing goes, the 1.1 patch we've already released has bug fixes and enhancements that are a direct result of requests on our mailing list and support emails
[FyL] and 1.2 is also a result of the mail and comments we've received
[Justin] split, sorry - on the launcher screen, under video options, there's a text brightness control
[Justin] in 1.1
[Justin] (not in 1.0)
[Senrats] Would anyone be interested in expansion patches for adjustments and such. I know it's expected, but do most of you see it as an annoyance to have to download something like that.
[Saint_Proverbius] Can't change the color, just how much of the color you see in other words.
[Justin] basically, yeah
[Saint_Proverbius] Though, if you added two more sliders for it.. heh.
[Justin] heh
[Justin] well
[Split_404] well I was thinking along the lines of, character x's lines are blue colored in battle, etc.
[Saint_Proverbius] Oh, that's a good idea.
[Justin] split, ahh
[Justin] split, that's a very good idea
[Justin] we'll put it on our feature request list ;-)
[Justin] one thing I can say - those who buy the full game will have membership to a members-only site
[Justin] from that site will be available updates, expansions
[Justin] the ability to submit your own extensions built using our tools
[Justin] which will be available
[Split_404] will there be a coprehensive list of weapons, or possibly a way to veiw stats in game? as it is now, I have no way of knowing if an elven sword is better than a silver sword
[Saint_Proverbius] Will 1.2 have the mouse code?
[Justin] and direct access to our bug-tracker
[Justin] so you can put bugs and feature requests in
[Justin] 1.2 will not have mouse support, nor will the initial release of the full title
[Justin] though we do plan to add mouse support as a (free) extension, later.
[FyL] Split, the idea for unique character text colors has been added to our idea list, as of now.
[Justin] turns out retro-fitting an engine to add mouse support is non-trivial.
[Justin] there will be item descriptions in the full release
[Justin] we're working on that now
[Justin] it will include physical descriptions of the items, and some informationa bout them
[Justin] exactly how much is still under discussion ;-)
* mundo has joined #RPGCodex
[Justin] mundo is Reymundo Sierra
[Justin] he's an artist who's been with us for quite a while
[Justin] the beginning of the intro sequence (with the crystal) and many of the building interiors are his work.
[Justin] Rey, say hello ;-)
[mundo] Hi
[Justin] so
[Justin] other questions?
[Justin] comments?
[mundo] How is everybody doing?
[Justin] (jokes?)
[Shevek] Hehe
[Split_404] when was the full version slated for release? by the way, I loved the artwork, will there be more character portraits? or possibly a way to add custom character portraits?
[Justin] the full game is due out 10/31
[Senrats] There are multiple character portraits for all races
[Justin] right
[Justin] also
[Senrats] Just not in the demo at this time
[Justin] we will be releasing all our tools (to those who buy the full title)
[Justin] so you could replace them with your own
[Justin] the work itself is copyrighted, so you can't modify those pieces
[Justin] but you could replace them.
[Split_404] so if I put a mustache on a female elf you could sue me?
[Justin] yeah
[Justin] we could
[Justin] would we?
[Ausir] i can see you were inspired by Bard's Tale construction set too, then :)
[Justin] that's a different question
[Split_404] lol, just getting
[Saint_Proverbius] If you needed the money!
[Split_404] err kidding
[Justin] HAHA!
[Justin] really, our drive to pursue folks who modified our work would be based on the distribution of those modifications
[Justin] and a desire to protect both ourselves, and our artists.
[Senrats] Exactly
[Split_404] Since you clearly have some BT experience, I was wondering what are the ages of most of the devs?
[Justin] Phil's the youngest...
[FyL] I'm 25
[FyL] at the young end.
[Justin] I turn 26 on 11/27
[Justin] most of us are late-20's, early 30's
[Senrats] most are 25-early 30s
[Senrats] Yep
[Senrats] Wolf is our senior member at 41
[Split_404] So how long has this been in development? DW that is, and how did you come up with devil whiskey?
[Justin] it's been in development for 3 years now
[Justin] jon, where did the DW plotline come from?
[Justin] it's a prequal to a much larger plotline intended for a later game project....
[Senrats] I wrote it sometime around 2001... We started work on aDark Res. before Devil Whiskey
[Senrats] It's a repquel about how the main antagonist comes to develop his interesting powers and soul domination.
[Senrats] prequel
[Justin] does that answer your question?
[Split_404] I remember this from awhile back, and if I remember correctly you had to change the name? what was the original name?
[Justin] Bard's Legacy: Devil Whiskey
[Justin] we didn't *have* to change the name
[Justin] but it was prudent
[Justin] EA wasn't talking to us
[Justin] we were trying to talk to them, but getting a run-around
[Justin] so instead of worrying about it, we removed the only real legal ground they could pursue us on
[Justin] potential trademark infringement
[Split_404] So EA thinks they own the word "bard" ?
[Justin] not really
[Justin] but it's conceivable that a CRPG with the word 'Bard' in the title could be considered to be 'easily confused' with the original title
[Justin] it isn't much, and it would depend on the judge, if anything
[FyL] case of better safe than sorry.
[Justin] but rather than tempt fate, we figured we'd just drop the 'Bard's Legacy' part.
[Split_404] So whats on the horizon for the company (after DW)
[Justin] Good question - we've got lots of ideas
[Justin] and can't talk about specifics
[Justin] we'd like to do the sequal, Dark Resurrection
[Justin] (spelled that wrong)
[Justin] anyway, we've got the entire plotline written
[Justin] we are still debating if it would be similar to DW in style, or a more 'modern' RPG
[Justin] there are other things too, which we really can't discuss yet.
[Saint_Proverbius] I dig isometric.
[Justin] :)
[Senrats] We have work in reserve for that title, but it's a much larger scope project.
[EEVIAC_] Couldn't the plotline be shifted forward to a future game?
[Justin] Sci-fi?
[EEVIAC_] Future as in modern?
[Justin] right
[Justin] so
[Saint_Proverbius] Cyber Whiskey!
[Shevek] hehe
[FyL] hahaha
[Justin] we started with the idea of doing a 'modern' RPG with our own plotline
[Justin] but none of us had done a game before
[Justin] so we thought it would be a bit ambitious, and started with something 'smaller'
[Justin] being DW
[Split_404] oh that reminds me, will there be a whiskey shotglass collectible for the full game purchasers?
[Justin] (turned out to be big ;-)
[Justin] entirely possible
[Justin] we're working with the ever-present CafePress
[Justin] we'll have a whole bunch of merchandise soon
[Justin] we're just getting the high-resolution artwork in place - keep an eye on the website for details.
[Split_404] dolls, underware, bumper sticker? ;)
[Justin] yes, yes and yes!
[Justin] :p
[Senrats] We have had a Marketing Specialist approach us about Bar and Club exposure... hmmm
[FyL] I want a DW lunchbox myself
[Senrats] Thermos
[Justin] We're considering a soundtrack, too
[Split_404] soundtrack is a really good idea
[Justin] there are 13 original bard songs, each recorded in at least two instruments
[Justin] more than a full CD
[Justin] and we have them all in CD-Audio quality
[Justin] professionally recorded
[Justin] again
[Senrats] We could even expand it to full instrumental arrangements.
[Justin] keep your eyes on the site ;-)
[Split_404] oh, in the demo version it sounds like someone randomly asks to try some weed? I assumed they meant mead, was this deliberate?
[FyL] that should be something else we mention here too - in the full game, the in-game music is different depending on what instrument the bard is holding
[Justin] right - it's a very cool effect.
[Shevek] awesome *firing up demo now*
[Justin] oh, some of the sound effects will be revamped.
[Justin] and you're right - it should be 'mead'.
[Justin] :)
[Senrats] NO... It was Mead...
[Senrats] hehehe
[Senrats] No mention of weed anywhere ;)
[Split_404] [crickets] sound effect not found...]]
[Justin] is that a joke, or a bug you got?
[Justin] :)
[Split_404] ahh so do you accept beta testers?
[Justin] heh
[Justin] well, send me an e-mail with your qualifications and we'll consider it
[Justin] we will have a fairly tight beta cycle for the full game
[Justin] and we might want a couple new testers
[Justin] mail to 'justin@shifting-suns.com'
[Justin] or 'info@shifting-suns.com' will work, too.
[Senrats] There are crickets at night
[FyL] I tired to be a beta tester at one point
[Justin] (we grabbed him as a coder instead ;-)
[FyL] :D
[Split_404] then you just decided to mod the code :)
[FyL] think I like this job a littl emore
[Split_404] I guess I am the only one asking questions, anyone else?
[Shevek] you are asking all the right one man =)
[Saint_Proverbius] Any plans on making the character creation system more intuitive? For example, having a way to plan out what class you want and then roll for it? So you know what you're getting?
[Senrats] Sounds good to me, but we like a variety of viewpoints ;)
[Justin] that's an idea that's cropped up from time to time.
[Justin] my opinion is that it's better to pick a system and stick with it then to have too many options
[Justin] part of what made the classic CRPGs great was the fact that they didn't have too many choices
[Justin] they were easy to play, because you didn't have to figure out the 'best' way to do a thing.
[Senrats] I guess with more insight into the races, you can pick one that would lead to a good class choice...
[Justin] also
[FyL] and by looking into the manual, you can find the required stats for each class
[Justin] the minimum stats for the various classes are in the manual
[Senrats] Half-Orcs have certain stats that make not for a good Arcanist.
[Justin] (doh! - FyL wins)
[FyL] :D
[Split_404] will there be weapon creation or enchanting in DW?
[Justin] yes
[Justin] item creation in a variety of ways
[Justin] the full game will allow:
[Justin] potion creation
[Justin] weapon enchantment
[Justin] creation of figurines
[Justin] and a couple other miscelaneous item creation things.
[Split_404] I assume the item creation will actually work (unlike toika's ToEE, tounge in cheek)?
[Justin] these are all skills that you get through various class advancement
[Justin] and they work on a recipe/component system - you get a recipe, the necessary components, use the skill, and end up with something new
[Justin] and yes, in theory, it works ;-)
[Justin] and yes, in theory, it works ;-)
[Shevek] You know, the music sounds pretty good so far and the portraits are very well drawn, how long did sound and artwork take you guys?
[Justin] three years ;-)
[Shevek] hehe
[mundo] :)
[Justin] we've been working on and off for 3 years, and all the pieces have been in development all that time.
[Justin] we're still getting revised artwork, and new artwork, from some of our artists
[Justin] and Jon is itching to redo some of the audio bits and music ;-)
[Senrats] I am
[Saint_Proverbius] Justin: What I'm talking about is more along the lines of pick the class, and then order the rolls so they fit the class. That would save you a lot of time in re-rolling, checking what classes you can do, then going back and re-rolling again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat until you getthe PsiKnight you want.
[Justin] I expect there will be a number of content patches after the full release, which will enhance the art and audio even further.
[Justin] saint, that's true
[Justin] and no, we weren't planning on implementing that style of character creation
[Shevek] yes, I have to agree with S_P that would be nice, this character creation sorta reminds me of Realms of Arkania, where you roll and hope you have the right stats for the class
[Justin] it's also just like old-school D&D
[Justin] :p
[Justin] or Might and Magic
[Justin] or BT
[Justin] we'll consider it, how's that?
[Senrats] I'm curious as to how the process would flow Saint. Not that we will do that, but I'm curious nonetheless on a personal level.
[Saint_Proverbius] In old skool D&D, you could put your rolls in any order you wanted.
[Justin] not according to the book ;-)
[Saint_Proverbius] Which is something the computer could do.
[Saint_Proverbius] THE BOOK LIES!
[Shevek] hehehe
[Justin] HAHA!
[Senrats] Like DX first for a ROgue you want
[Spazmo] The book suggested a few methods
[Justin] anyway, like I said, we'll think about it.
[Split_404] Maybe a point buy system? or little pics of dice and allowing to re-roll 3 or 4..
[Justin] maybe make it an option
[FyL] sounds kinda like NWN, am I right in that's what your thinking about?
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, just have the rolls follow an order of what's important for the class.
[Split_404] Or just do what I did, memory edit the dice locations ;)
[Justin] so instead of an option to re-arrange, just have the computer do it for you?
[Saint_Proverbius] Sure.
[Justin] interesting option - could cause problems, though: DX isn't, strictly speaking, important for a spellcaster.
[Justin] but you probably want a high DX on one of our spell casters, so they go early in combat, and a low DX on the other, so they go late.
[Justin] (or, you *might* want that)
[Saint_Proverbius] It'd just make character creation a whole lot faster. After all, people are just going to keep rolling until they get the class the party needs anyway.
[Justin] good point
[Justin] ok
[Split_404] Is armor class calculated or is it a random value in character creation?
[Justin] calculated
[Justin] actually, CO, LK and AC are all calculated
[Shevek] i think its dex depepndent from what i see
[Justin] mostly
[Justin] DX and class
[Justin] there's a DX bonus
[Justin] and certain classes get extra DX bonus
[FyL] race too
[Justin] right
[Justin] race modifies all 9 stats, after computation
[Senrats] Saurians have a thick scale skin that gives them a +4 to AC
[Justin] (or -4, depending on how you look at it)
[Senrats] So they start at 6 for their basic AC
[Justin] then again, they can't wear a lot of armor
[Split_404] Are there any riddle puzzles? or puzzles that you must type in answers?
[Justin] there are
[Senrats] right ;)
[FyL] couple are in the demo
[Justin] in fact, there are several, just in the demo
[Justin] and many more in the full game
[Split_404] well demo has been crashing on me :(, so I haven't been able to get far. Is there an option to turn on a log file so I can see whats happening?
[Justin] there should be, shouldn't there? Is that 1.1 or 1.0?
[Justin] (real-time debugging...)
[Split_404] 1.1
[Justin] did you have a wolf in your party?
[Split_404] possibly, or it was right after a fight with a bard summoned wolf
[Justin] there are a couple known bugs in 1.1 that are doozies.
[Justin] wolves and warrior wolves have a skill that they use in combat sometimes
[Justin] which will kill it
[Justin] also
[Justin] bard songs are a little less stable than they should be
[Justin] both of those will be fixed in 1.2 this weekend
[Justin] :)
[FyL] they're better now, but not to the public yet
[Justin] also, make sure you've got the latest drivers for your video card
[Justin] there are some buggy OpenGL implementations out there ;-)
[Split_404] nvidia beta team access ;)
[Justin] ;)
[Justin] you got all the goods, man!
[Saint_Proverbius] Unless you want to play Half-Life 2.
[Justin] so for now, avoid wolves, and keep your eye open for 1.2
[Split_404] lol, I thought it was just a code release not a demo
[Split_404] err I mean code stolen :)
[Spazmo] Saint: Hush! You'll get us g-lined!
[Saint_Proverbius] I'm refering to Gabe's big speech on DX9 and Half-Life.
[Saint_Proverbius] But enough about that.
[Justin] is HL2 DX9?
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah
[Spazmo] Hell yeah
[Justin] (I've been so focused on DW I haven't really been paying much attention to the rest of the gaming world)
[Split_404] well my only wish was colored text, and in game veiwable stats and descriptions, along with new music, and it would be a great nostalgic winner in my book
[Justin] well, so much for a Linux port ;-)
[Saint_Proverbius] Speaking of which. How about some cool pixel shader and bumpmmaping in Devil Whiskey!
[Justin] ok - well, game-viewable stats and descriptions, and music, are coming. Colored text is on the list. Cool pixel shaders are going to be saved for a future title.
[Justin] :)
[Senrats] The other intruments and songs will add a lot to the Bard character...
[Split_404] how about support for 3d glasses?
[Justin] yeah - bards are pretty cool
[Justin] that actually shouldn't be hard.
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, shutter glasses rule!
[Justin] :)
[FyL] heh - shouldn't be
[Justin] we'll put it on the 'post release upgrade' list
[Justin] :p
[Shevek] ugh, id never buy those; just knowing how silly i would look with a pair of those on...
[Saint_Proverbius] post post post post post release upgrades.. Right beside the SNES port.
[Justin] HAHAHA
[Justin] so
[FyL] that's where I was thinking
[FyL] :D
[Justin] post-release updates that will be first priority after the intial release will be:
[Justin] 1) Internationalization - we're going to have native German, French and Spanish versions.
[Justin] and 2) Mouse support
[Justin] after that, we'll see
[Justin] :)
[Justin] o
[Justin] oh
[Justin] right
[Justin] a Mac OS X port
[Spazmo] Pfff
[Justin] is somewhere on there, though it depends on one of the developers getting a Mac.
[Spazmo] Mac weenies already got EVN and Geneforge 2 before us
[Spazmo] Don't let them have a crack at DW!
[FyL] if anyone would like to send me a mac, I'd be glad to work on it :D
[Saint_Proverbius] A MacOS X port would be a good idea. They're starved, they'll buy anything.
[Justin] just a few statistics, if you all are interested.
[Split_404] so again how did you come up with devil whiskey?
[Split_404] the name that is
[Justin] our two servers have delivered over 950 GB of Devil Whiskey
[Justin] that's a total of 8390 copies
[Justin] of the demo
[Split_404] is there a MMORP game waiting for us in the next version?
[Justin] plus some patch downloads
[Justin] and that's not including mirrors
[Justin] :)
[Justin] ok
[Saint_Proverbius] Ugh
[Justin] the name came from the plot
[Saint_Proverbius] Dear lord, no MMO.
[Justin] if you play the game a bit, you'll see
[Justin] and no, MMO isn't real likely
[Justin] a big part of DW is the turn-based nature
[Justin] makes it much lower stress
[Justin] that also makes a unified multi-player game world virtually impossible
[Justin] or certainly unplayable
[Justin] we might build a MMORPG based in the same world as DW at some point
[Justin] but it's not on our immediate timeline
[Saint_Proverbius] Going MMO worked great for Origin. :D
[Justin] :)
[Justin] well, we've got other priorities
[FyL] that might be somewhere around the 3d glasses time.
[Senrats] BWAHAHAHA
[Split_404] lol, whats Shiftingsuns stance on the legalization of drugs?
[Senrats] Ask Wolf
[Justin] um, no comment
[Justin] ;)
[Percolator_Fish] i'm downloading this demo right now, so it had better be good
[Senrats] What drugs?
[Senrats] just kidding
[Justin] percolator: I really hope you enjoy it!
[FyL] I'm a contractor.
[FyL] :D
[Percolator_Fish] :)
[Justin] I'm going to have to run soon
[Split_404] will there be an unofficial patch to make all the characters nude? like the tomb raider patch?
[Justin] it's been a blast, but my new baby is yelling, and I'm sure my wife will go nuts shortly.
[Saint_Proverbius] There's where the bumpmapping would come in handy.
[Percolator_Fish] whoa
[Split_404] and the 3d glasses!
[FyL] well, we did say you could make your own portraits
[Split_404] lol
[Saint_Proverbius] Definitely!
[FyL] make that Orc look a lot less menacing, that's for sure
[Shevek] i think id find a naked orc more menacing
[Percolator_Fish] wait a minute this game has an old-school interface
[Split_404] Have you seen one naked FyL?
[Saint_Proverbius] I don't know, I think I'd be more inclined to run from the naked orc.
[Percolator_Fish] didn't you know that RPG interfaces have evolved?
[Justin] percolator, well, that all depends on your point of view
[Justin] personally, I think RPG interfaces have devolved.
[FyL] Split, hoping to never see a naked orc, if I can help it
[Senrats] We just came out of a Bomb Shelter where we lived for 15 years ;)
[Senrats] to Perc
[Senrats] to Perc
[Justin] allright - I gotta run, but I'm sure Phil, Jon and Rey can handle any other questions you all may have.
[Justin] remember, keep an eye on http://www.devilwhiskey.com
[Justin] and thanks - it's been a blast!
[EEVIAC_] What's the status on boxed full versions? Are they going to happen?
[Justin] oh
[Saint_Proverbius] Well, I agree to an extent, but there are things you can do to make some things better than the way they used to be. Most modern CRPGs are fairly dumbed down to the point of removing options. If you can keep the old school options and make it more functional,that's the key.
[Senrats] For a little longer we can ;)
[Justin] yeah
[Justin] yes
[Justin] there will be a boxed edition
[Justin] though not right away
[Justin] we will be offering pre-sales of the boxed version
[Justin] which will get you immediate access to the download edition
[Saint_Proverbius] That's why I mentioned the class roll thing, actually.
[Justin] and a shipped boxed version as soon as we have enough capital to produce a bunch of boxed copies ;-)
[Justin] and with that, I really do gotta run.
[Justin] Thanks again all!
[FyL] see ya Justin
[Percolator_Fish] Thank you.
[EEVIAC_] How big's the full ver. going to be?
[Split_404] Thanks for the chat Justin
[FyL] so far as size goes
[Shevek] S_P: true, i remember RoA actually had both now that I think back, you could roll then choose a class, or choose a class and then roll
[FyL] the current version we have is at about 170 megs.
[FyL] that will probably increase somewhat, but I'd say it won't go up much
[FyL] depends how much more media Jon and Rey have for us :D
[mundo] we do have some more to add
[Saint_Proverbius] Shevek: Yeah, see, I don't mind the roll thing, then checking on the class, then rerolling thing in the beginning.. But halfway through, when you're going through your checklist of WHAT I NEED IN MY PARTY, it gets annoying.
[Senrats] I only have revisions... the character portraits will be added too but won't add much to the DL size.
[Split_404] Something I had a problem with, when I tap my forward key it walks 3 or 4 steps instead of 1, is there an option I can change to help that?
[Senrats] You can deselect Smooth Walking
[FyL] Split, sounds like your keyboard is pretty sensitive..
[FyL] Smooth walking may help, but it looks ugly.
[Senrats] mine too
[FyL] you can check your keyboard sample rate in your bios I suppose...
[FyL] but thats not much fun.
[Senrats] Nah...
[FyL] I'll look and see if we have any way to buffer out quickly repeated keystrokes.
[FyL] I myself haven't run into it, but I've heard a few people mention that kind of behavior.
[Saint_Proverbius] Using SDL for the I/O?
[FyL] yup
[Split_404] maybe a double tap to make it move forward continously, otherwise always move 1 step ?
[Saint_Proverbius] Shouldn't be too bad, depending on the game loop.
[Senrats] Any more questions regarding music or other media? I have to go in a few minutes, but Rey will be around for a while I guess.
[Split_404] who did the music again?
[Saint_Proverbius] Like Senrats fleeing a sinking ship!
[FyL] double tap isn't something you wanna look for, in case something like what you just said happens, you'd end up just continusously walking forward
[FyL] Senrats is the music man.
[Senrats] I did and enjoyed it.
[Split_404] so Senrats, in the file freshmead1.wav, what is he saying?
[Saint_Proverbius] Hah
[Senrats] Would you like to try our new fresh made mead?
[Senrats] or smoething like that...
[Senrats] something.. pardon the typo
[Spazmo] Did you do all the voiceovers in your basement?
[Split_404] lol, I think thats just reverb spazmo
[Senrats] Basically...
[Split_404] Senrats, what editing software do you use?
[Senrats] There were some edits I plan to redo that got thrown in the demo as placeholders.
[Split_404] for sound that is
[Senrats] I used several programs... CoolEdit, Cakewalk Pro, Direct Music...
[Split_404] Have you condering using a spacial enhancer plugin? sounds way better than reverb
[mundo] I hate to run guys but I have to put my three little Orc's to sleep.
[Senrats] More aspirations for voice overs and intro music... VOs aren't high on our list but they will be for the more modern games.
[Saint_Proverbius] mundo: That can be done faster if you use duct tape.
[Saint_Proverbius] It's a real time saver.
[Senrats] Bye Rey... Maybe this is a good time to tie things up.
[Senrats] BWAHAHAHA
[FyL] take it easy Rey
[mundo] I don't think my wife will let me
[Saint_Proverbius] Duct tape works on wives too.
[Split_404] Thanks for the chat
[Senrats] But she'll let you use it on her?
[Senrats] hehehe
[Senrats] sorry
[mundo] I have to try that one
[Saint_Proverbius] Hey, that'd make for some great character portraits.
* mundo (mundo@ppp-208-188-26-0.dialup.rcsntx.swbell.net) has quit IRC (Quit)
[FyL] so any more questions?
[Senrats] We're down to 2 of us now ;)
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, I'm thinking.
[Senrats] I hope you all have enjoyed the demo... much more is to come
[Saint_Proverbius] How big is the bug list currently, FyL?
[FyL] let me double check numbers
[FyL] you want number for feature requests and dev notes too?
[FyL] :D
[Split_404] How many items (weapons, armor, misc, etc.) are in the game?
[Senrats] Over 500 that I know of
[Senrats] Phil?
[FyL] actual real bugs that are still open and being worked on 9
[FyL] closed issues also 9
[FyL] and feature requests / notes to ourselves about things to look at are on the order of 10 - 15
[Saint_Proverbius] Any funny bug stories?
[FyL] I know the items lists are not complete by what I have.
[FyL] but we have over 100 easily - Justin would be the man to ask abotu final tally I think.
[Senrats] There were some funny typos...
[FyL] heh.
[Saint_Proverbius] Do tell!
[FyL] no bugs that were funny after they sucked out my will to live.
[Senrats] Gee... I can't remember but something along the line of "Conan (Bb) would be doing _____ but him have no ____"
[FyL] there once was a problem with Pronoun usage
[Saint_Proverbius] That's when they get to be the funniest though, after all hope has been lost.
[Senrats] basically the auto gen text for combat
[Split_404] heres something cool for you Senrats - http://www.thedirectxfiles.com/manufacturers/spinaudio_3dpan.htm
[Senrats] RIGHT Phil...
[Senrats] What is it?
[FyL] the worst one I ever encountered was probably working on the AutoMap
[Senrats] Aural placement software?
[FyL] The code was working great, mapping rennibister and all was going easily.
[Split_404] a plugin to convert all your wav files, 3d placement, but not aureal
[FyL] then all of a sudden it just stopped working.
[FyL] no matter where I went, the map was just all gray
[FyL] I had just finished adding code to mark the stairs
[FyL] and couldn't figure out what the going on for like 2 days
[Split_404] could either of you send me an original copy of the graphic map of rennibister
[FyL] ended up being a misplaced semicolon on the inside of the switch statement.
[Saint_Proverbius] Hah
[FyL] was keeping the Buffer from being swapped out.
[FyL] so no memory leaks or anything, was even being drawn (so my debugger looked good and everything)
[Senrats] I think we'll release it in the patch... It's also in BLTalk
[FyL] just didn't bother to let hte Vid Card know it was done drawing it.
[Saint_Proverbius] I wrote a map generator once for kicks, and used PASCAL style array notation and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. Took about four to five hours.
[Senrats] Wolf redid one that's all grid
[FyL] next refresh came when you turned off the map, so you never saw it
[Saint_Proverbius] What compiler do you use?
[FyL] ick Pascal... that's where I started my career.
[FyL] for DW or for personal use?
[Saint_Proverbius] PASCAL is awful.
[Saint_Proverbius] For DW and personal use!
[FyL] hee
[Split_404] Turbo pascal 7 (with objects!!!) here, lol
[Saint_Proverbius] Borland still makes TP?
[FyL] well, since I'm responsible for windows side stuff of DW (and a little linux testing) I'm using the Microsoft Command line C++ compiler
[FyL] that would be cl
[FyL] but for myself
[FyL] I do most of my dev work in linux using gcc
[Saint_Proverbius] Dev C++ is pretty nice if you like IDEs.
[FyL] was funny when Justin first mentioned releasing our tools for DW to the public for modding - I just wanted to say "you mean vi?"
[Saint_Proverbius] Hahahahah
[FyL] I have to use Vis Studio at work... at home I tend to stick to vi and make if I can help it
[FyL] for debugging I LOVE GVD tho
[FyL] feels a lot like hte Visual Studio debugger, but you can actually graphically represent pointers and such.
[FyL] can actually *see* the linked list.
[FyL] for those who care - Justin is the hardcore emacs fan -
[FyL] I'm the sixer.
[Saint_Proverbius] I used to have to write PASCAL under vi on a PRIMOS system.
[FyL] slick.
[Saint_Proverbius] sick.
[FyL] I started off on VMS
[FyL] moved to solaris and C pretty quick.
[Split_404] well I started off with dos batch commands! :p
[FyL] heck ya!
* Deathy (~Deathy@m043-189.nv.iinet.net.au) has quit IRC (Quit)
[FyL] I was all dos until I came to school.
[Saint_Proverbius] I refused to do DOS.. But Doom 2.. Well.. It made me get a PC.
[FyL] cut my teeth on my dad's PC - wrote some little basic proggies and stuff... then I ditched the computer geekiness for a few years
[Saint_Proverbius] Had an Amiga up until then, so to me, all old school CRPGs use mouse interfaces. ;)
[FyL] came back into it in college and ended up going full out - now I'm a prof programmer.
[FyL] haah
[FyL] I always wanted an Amiga
[FyL] but if it wouldn't run AutoCAD, my dad didn't want it
[Saint_Proverbius] I had a bridgeboard for my A3000. It would run AutoCAD.
[FyL] cool.
[Senrats] I've got to go. Thanks for your interest in the game.
[FyL] See you later Jon. Take care.
[Saint_Proverbius] Not a problem, Senrats
[Split_404] Thanks for the chat
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, definitely. Thanks for being here!
[SiiX|ToEE] yes it was interesting
[FyL] guess that just leaves me, any more DW questions that I can try to answer?
[Saint_Proverbius] Justin mentioned problems with making the mouse interface. Can you elaborate on that, FyL?
[FyL] I can try
[FyL] that's been his headache as of late.
[FyL] but the biggest problem is to try and figure out 2 things.
[FyL] how to effectively "target" something and have it trigger the same events that hte keystrokes do
[FyL] and how to keep people in the proper order of things.
[FyL] as it is now, we can simply block keystrokes that don't fit the situation.
[FyL] but if you decide to cast a spell, but then hit the arrow key to move (or mouse over to the view window and click up)
[FyL] that has to be handled.
[FyL] the taretting problem we have a possible solution for, but it requires a fair amount of changes for how we handle text
[FyL] keeping everything in order and moving in the proper direction is just another thing that would require us to be very consciencious about how we handle interaction
[FyL] and of course lead to a LARGE amount of debugging/testing time.
[FyL] that enough info?
[Saint_Proverbius] Rewriting the handler sounds like fun.
[FyL] isn't it always?
[FyL] :D
[Saint_Proverbius] Once the targetting is done, you could interpret the mouse action as a keypress, then shove it off.
[FyL] that's a possibility - and I'm guessing that's what he's thinking.
[FyL] I really don't know the master plan on mousing.
[FyL] myself, I'd rather use the keyboard anyways, so it doesn't bother me.
[Saint_Proverbius] How's the scripting system in DW?
[Split_404] if it were me, I would dump mousing, and stick with keyboard
[FyL] can you be more specific about that?
[Saint_Proverbius] What all can it do? Any good examples of it in action?
[FyL] oh ok
[FyL] well it's VERY extensible
[FyL] we use it for all of the plot interactions
[FyL] we have a python interpreter built into the game... so that's how it runs
[FyL] in doing so, we can expose most any public interface to the interpreter.
[FyL] for instance at the moment, you can initiate combat, and see the results.
[FyL] you can check for existence of items in the party's inventory.
[FyL] you can give items, gold, and XP to the party (think quest rewards)
[Saint_Proverbius] It used for dialogue as well?
[FyL] it can handle user input as well, so that's how we handle the question awhile back about answering questions.
[FyL] ya, dialogue is pretty much all controlled by scripting
[FyL] things like the Shops are built into the game
[FyL] but, for instance, the first guy you meet when you leave the adventurer's hall
[FyL] that's a script
[FyL] taking the quest for the cloak, answering riddles, all of that is a script
[FyL] scripts load the new maps as well..
[Saint_Proverbius] Does the scripting have access to the player's race, class, and other stats? Are those used in the game's dialogue? For example, a BRUTE TANK might get some dialogue a THINKY MAGE might not and vice versa?
[FyL] you'd be exactly on target there.
[Saint_Proverbius] Excellent.
[FyL] and that is part of it
[FyL] dunno that you'll find any of that in the demo
[FyL] but I know that's in parts of the final game.
[FyL] the important thing for us to make sure of is that you don't get to a point in the main storyline where a certain type of character is required to complete the game
[FyL] it may come up for some subquests, but I don't know specifics about that at this point.
[Saint_Proverbius] Prelude to Darkness starts off with that. You're talking with the Watcher, and he says, "Bob, you were selected because you are strong, and have nature magic skills!" Seeing things like that at the beginning typically hook me from the start.
[Saint_Proverbius] I always like CRPG dialogue that lets me know it knows who and what I am.
[FyL] I agree, it's always rewarding to know your choices do make a difference in how the game runs.
[FyL] in fact, you'll find some choice decisions effect how the demo plays. even in it's limited scope.
[Saint_Proverbius] What modding tools was Justin talking about releasing?
[SiiX|ToEE] ok i may came out of the blue but here one question: like i saw i nthe screenshot the arts are awsome but the 3d is a bit simple(cubic castle) is it inteded to be liek that or there will be some improvement?(i know that the most important i a great gameplay,story etc andgraphic come last)
[FyL] I'm not sure I can discuss the specific tools until he's certain which ones will go out.
[Percolator_Fish] graphic is important as gameplay
[Percolator_Fish] nobody play if graphic that bad ;)
[Saint_Proverbius] I disagree.
[Percolator_Fish] go ahead and disagree
[SiiX|ToEE] sure it is an apealing factor...
[Shevek] i think the portraits are pretty good
[SiiX|ToEE] yes they are
[Percolator_Fish] But hardly anybody who looks at the screenshots will bother to download the game.
[FyL] I say there is a balance between the two - fancy graphics don't make a good game, and neither does a fully featured story if it looks like Rogue
[Percolator_Fish] The graphics are just horrible.
[Saint_Proverbius] No one's going to keep playing if the graphics are great and the gameplay ain't there.
[Percolator_Fish] But nobody is going to start playing if the graphics look like 1993
[Percolator_Fish] Well, maybe a few.
[Saint_Proverbius] Jeff Vogel still eats.
[Shevek] well, the graphics look much better than 1993
[Percolator_Fish] Wow the portraits are great though.
[FyL] the game is grid-based - and it will stay that way I'm sure - AS justin said, it was a way for the guys who went on to make Shifting Suns to get some game desing adn dev expereince
[FyL] and they also wanted to capture the classic look and feel of the games they grew up playing
[FyL] so in that respect, the buildings will remain square
[SiiX|ToEE] but like lets take .. wizardry for example : its has the old feeling but its not all blocky
[FyL] but it's not so focused on remaining old school that they stuck to 16-color portraits and no animation in teh walking
[SiiX|ToEE] ok
[FyL] Wizardry also had a full-environment rendering engine and financial backing ;)
[SiiX|ToEE] indeed :/
[Percolator_Fish] Certain full-environment rendering engines are dirt cheap.
[FyL] in fact, our budget for this game is $0
[Saint_Proverbius] Did I mention I love isometric?
[FyL] hehe
[SiiX|ToEE] hehe
[SiiX|ToEE] we all do
[Percolator_Fish] The Torque engine, for example.
[Percolator_Fish] 100 bux and you get the engine used in Tribes 2
* Percolator_Fish shrugs and walks off.
[Saint_Proverbius] $120, isn't it?
[FyL] thought it was $100 for private use?
[FyL] if you sell a game based on it, costs a bit more?
[Saint_Proverbius] $120 and you have to cough up some sales money, I believe.
[FyL] and we'd also have to get 3d Artists to maek models.
[Saint_Proverbius] Auran Jet is only based on game sales, though.
[FyL] and going that route, it doesn't have the feel of what they were going for with DW.
[SiiX|ToEE] so monster in sprite in DW?
[FyL] it's an image..
[FyL] not really a sprite.
[SiiX|ToEE] ok
[FyL] From what I understand the next game they plan on
[FyL] Dark Ressurection
[FyL] goes the nice 3d Engine poly-pushing route
[FyL] or at least that's the intention
[FyL] a lot of us have found we really missed the older feel of games like this... so who knows what route it will go in the end.
[Saint_Proverbius] 2D tiles + 3D character models = sweet heavenly bliss.
[FyL] hehe.
* Percolator_Fish spits on tiles
[Shevek] i say go like realms of arkania (love those games)
[FyL] well I'm gonna have to call it a night now too fellas, it's been a blast.
[Shevek] first person walking, isometric battles
[FyL] thanks a bunch for having us on tonight.
[Percolator_Fish] Thanks for your time. :)
[Shevek] gnite
[Split_404] night phil
[Saint_Proverbius] Thanks for everything, FyL!
[FyL] anytime guys.
[FyL] later.
* FyL has left #RPGCodex

Thanks to all the Shifting Suns guys who showed up, as well as the interested people who made all that possible!

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