Why is game development so ineffective?

[Iucounu]

My theory (besides tax evasion and incompetence) is that most staff is only hired for a specific project, and will get fired as soon their work is done. In other words they have no incentive whatsoever to finish a project, unless they can easily find new employment afterwords. To make their gig last as long as possible, many may have a silent agreement with collegues to work as slow as they can possibly get away with; others may intentionally introduce bugs or spaghetti code that only they will know how to untangle, thus making themselves indispensable; others may simply innovate more and more great features without ever producing a final product, similar to how Scheherazade would string her husband along in Arabian Nights.

 

[luj1]

This goes beyond the gamedev industry

 

[ind33d]

The purpose of a system is what it does. If the game industry's purpose were to make fun games, then games would be fun. But they aren't, are they?

 

[GamerCat_]

What games do you like? Compare the history and background of games you like to ones you don't.

What you describe might be true of why Microsoft took so long to poorly finish one Halo game in like ten years. But it doesn't seem to happen in Japan ever. I do think you have a more or less accurate of a potentially present factor in many cases, but not the factor that makes or breaks game development. Plenty of studios and teams do finish games, but they also suck. Is that ineffective too?

 

[Falksi]

Yeah, most are lazy cunts with no bollocks, more bothered about political agendas.

 

[Raghar]

In 90s game developers had 3x higher programming output per hour than normal SW industry. There were several reasons for that, one of it is that normal SW is made at much slower pace.

In game development, which is artistic field, the goal can abruptly change in mid development. (Decent example is MOO3 development when main designer was removed from project in middle of project, and lead artist had to step in as a main designer to ensure the game would be released in state that was at least partially decent. Basically original designer made something like a web game where player did only up level orders and it should do some under it and simulate bureaucracy of an empire, and it didn't have gameplay, just few random click and then watch. MOO3 was supposed to be successor of MOO2 AA game and players have their expectations. But as you can see in contrast to normal SW development, they managed to release it without drastic delays and it was mostly bug free... Aside of that rounding error that didn't allow to completely eliminate infestations, and few some nasty inconveniences that were solved in later patches.)

 

[Butter]

The average 90s dev team:

The average 20s dev team:

 

[Falksi]

The average 90s dev team:

View attachment 48253

Bet she was sore by the weekend.

 

[Tyranicon]

Why is game development so ineffective?​

Looks at TV. Looks at film.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

because game developers are ineffective.

 

[Iucounu]

What games do you like? Compare the history and background of games you like to ones you don't.

They are too few to draw any conclusions from.

Plenty of studios and teams do finish games, but they also suck. Is that ineffective too?

I didn't say they don't finish, just that it takes an absurdly long time. Does anyone know what stage of game development that wastes more time? Plot/quest writing, level design, basic gameplay mechanics, textures, debugging?

 

[Raghar]

The average 90s dev team:

View attachment 48253

Wow we had even teams with woman/women in that age.
Nearly everyone has glasses however. Shortsightedness was plaguing these teams.

The average 20s dev team:

View attachment 48254

They are mostly young people... And can be hint of the problem.
While in 90s computer art, namely computer games, were relatively young field. (Which was viewed as heavy commercialism by people from outside, but some developers were trying to do art, they were trying to replicate PnP sessions on PC, they were creating rather complex simulations.) Nowadays we have mature big multibillion industry, with weird entry barriers for new/old skilled lets call them victims. In old ages entry requirements were (aside of a free position, and ability to pass tests to show correct skills), being able to write computer program, solve complex mathematic equations, and be able to cooperate with the team.

Workhours in old days were shit, pay in the old days was shit, future of company was "if we will not be unlucky with sales, and if we have enough reserves to survive one or two bad projects". Sales in old days were based also on random factor, so commercial development was not only about quality. And in fact some companies got income from other projects. Creating game was about prestige, not only about income.

This actually makes me thinking. When salaries were shit, a lot of selfish greedy shit was using theirs PhD to get into normal SW companies and didn't bother game developer companies that often. Nowadays salaries are comparable to normal software industry, which allows people with University titles to get job/salary/and ooze during development without doing something decent.

Young people who were growing with cell phones who doesn't know how a decent PC game looks like, they are happily socializing with other young people in perspective SW company, and they have rather decent salaries. Yea obviously their work productivity isn't spectacular, and what they make looks like a parody of decently made game produced in year 2000.

 

[R@tmaster]

Is it ineffective? A gazillion games being released every year.

 

[Baron Tahn]

When games were good 85% of the team were programmers. Nowadays 85% of the team is on expensive and slow graphics shit (that usually isnt their own engine) and you have about 2 programmers, half a writer and one of them is also the designer.

 

[AndyS]

Declining work ethic is a real thing. I don't work in computers, but the young employees coming in are lazy as hell. And I'm saying that as a classic "just do the bare minimum" lazy guy, but at least I do the bare minimum. These kids are doing well below that and then whining about having too much work while demanding raises and promotions.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yeah, most are lazy cunts with no bollocks, more bothered about political agendas.

Ironically, most of these commie game developers don't realize that the reason they get fired is because their bosses think the same way they do, like Communists. Communists believe that all people that do a particular job are interchangeable, like the parts on a factory line. So, why keep them around so they can keep getting pay raises when they can be swapped out and cheaper people can be swapped in. The same reason why companies no longer think overtime for hourly employees is cost effective, because they don't believe that one worker is better than another. The concept of experience and merit is completely lost on them.

 

[laclongquan]

Communists believe that all people that do a particular job are interchangeable, like the parts on a factory line. So, why keep them around so they can keep getting pay raises when they can be swapped out and cheaper people can be swapped in.

Isnt that the capitalists' way? You are confusing me here~

 

[GamerCat_]

Communists believe that all people that do a particular job are interchangeable, like the parts on a factory line. So, why keep them around so they can keep getting pay raises when they can be swapped out and cheaper people can be swapped in.

Isnt that the capitalists' way? You are confusing me here~

The Japanese clearly have the right of this. What should we call their way?

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Bloat and lack of top-down-vision/clear-communication channels.

Oh, and the fact that the current industry paradigm is just people who don’t know how to code making the hiring decisions for coding positions.

 

[laclongquan]

Communists believe that all people that do a particular job are interchangeable, like the parts on a factory line. So, why keep them around so they can keep getting pay raises when they can be swapped out and cheaper people can be swapped in.

Isnt that the capitalists' way? You are confusing me here~

The Japanese clearly have the right of this. What should we call their way?

You still try to confuse me? Japan is obviously capitalism for the win. Nobody ever call them communists~
Or are you trying to call Japanese commie now?

 

[laclongquan]

scratch all that

Why would I try to prove something somebody theorize here? I have no monkey in this circus.

 

[GamerCat_]

You still try to confuse me? Japan is obviously capitalism for the win. Nobody ever call them communists~
Or are you trying to call Japanese commie now?

We can call it what we want. But we should try to learn from it.

 

[Azdul]

Bloat and lack of top-down-vision/clear-communication channels.

Oh, and the fact that the current industry paradigm is just people who don’t know how to code making the hiring decisions for coding positions.

In video game industry people are often fired (or quit) at the end of the project. Establishing productive processes takes time - so it's amateur hour with each new game.

The only exception are the companies that are doing pure engineering tasks - like ports and tools. But they tend to stay under the radar. If they'll do a fine job - you won't even notice.

Declining work ethic is a real thing. I don't work in computers, but the young employees coming in are lazy as hell. And I'm saying that as a classic "just do the bare minimum" lazy guy, but at least I do the bare minimum. These kids are doing well below that and then whining about having too much work while demanding raises and promotions.

People are paid much less in video game industry than anywhere else - with much less job security. Anyone who is motivated and/or talented is scooped up by other sectors of the economy.

 

[Cologno]

Declining work ethic is a real thing. I don't work in computers, but the young employees coming in are lazy as hell. And I'm saying that as a classic "just do the bare minimum" lazy guy, but at least I do the bare minimum. These kids are doing well below that and then whining about having too much work while demanding raises and promotions.

It's getting that way in the military, too. I was in the US Coast Guard (technically falls under DHS, not DoD, so not really military, but it recruits and runs the same) for 14 years and recruits were getting worse and worse as I got toward the end. Officers are notoriously bad there, but noncoms usually learn their job and know it like an expert. Recent years before Corona competency was noticeably declining and worse, the ability to learn and advance skill sets had sharply declined. And a lot were simply incapable of even trying to get good at their job.

 

[Daemongar]

Poor project management. From sticking to a schedule, sticking to the scope and goal, and staying on budget. New Vegas came about because there were real, hard constraints. Starfield came about because there weren't any. Even with a substantially larger budget, more resources, and unlimited time, Starfield bit a big wang.

The constraints put in place by the folks above those developing play a major role. Bethesda gave Obsidian a fixed window. They hit it, the game was released, and we were all relatively happy. Now look at The Elder Skyrim: VI. When will it come out? At least 2026. Why 2026? Who knows! When will people start actually working on the game? My guess is most work will take place late 2025.