Fun with Pierre Begue, creator of Knights of the Chalice

[Mastermind]

But i do study it, i try different games because of their mechanics, their ways to tell a story, the characters in them, etc. To improve my own.

Judging by your posting history much of this consists of "studying" Skyrim, in which case it's not surprising you're not learning anything.

Art is entertaining in the same way food is delicious, but what you feed with it isnt your stomach.

No, but you feel the primal need for entertainment, which isn't any more elevated than the need for food.

How come good artist keep getting discovered every day then? if what you say its true then every good artist should have a very comfortable life style and freedom to do their thing, sadly, we dont live in a perfect world and it all comes down to knowing or getting noticed by the right people. Some good artist simply never get the chance, or are never recognized for their work because the one that did notice them wasnt too interested in it. The music industry is a prime example of this.

The only artists that don't get discovered are the ones who don't even try. The music industry is a prime example of unsuccessful mediocre artists claiming they're better than the successful mediocre artists. Most modern artists (including the whiny indie ones) are in fact shit because they are unable to transcend the narrow limitations of the hollow, soulless modern world. If you think there are hordes of good undiscovered artists out there you are simply not high brow enough to judge what is and isn't good art.

So you mean to say anyone that has had a fuck up on his carrer isnt a good artist?

No, I am saying that anybody who cannot produce any mainstream art whatsoever isn't a good artist.

because they couldnt keep the high standards they set consistently?

If you can't consistently keep high standards then you're not good, you're in the upper range of mediocre.

not even talking about those that got lucky a couple times and are sailing on the sea of success by phoning it in ever since?

What do they have to do with whether good artists make money? You're one of the dumb autistic cunts who took a perfectly serviceable analogy and decided to write a grand fucking thesis on its implications. I can't believe I actually wasted so many minutes of my life on this stupid shit.

How can you say that art is a mechanical process?

I didn't, you stupid illiterate fuck.

why dont we put computers to do it then? if its just replicating whats already been done with slight variations.

We do. Most digital art relies heavily on computer aid.

And the artist of today dont have a fraction of the exposure that they will have in 100 years, your point?

Why are you fucking asking me what my point is when you're the one who started in on me?

My point was that good artists make good money. Make, not made, not will make. The past and future are not relevant.

Plus would you consider pretty face #4 of the latest popular teenager show talented?

Fuck, do you even know how many famous actors today got rejected on their first would be gig in favor of the son/daughter of the producer? what if they had given up back then, what if tarantino had gotten a sweet job in an office and never went to his first big audition? how naive can you be you shit.

Actors aren't real artists (neither are singers, or guitar players for that matter, the only artist involved in these fields are the guys doing the writing and directing). It's amusing that you think they are though, because all actors do is replicate people, and I thought that wasn't art.

It's further retarded that you'd talk about famous actors, who make a shitton of money, which just proves my point. If they're good they will get auditions sooner or later.

You are full of shit, your arguments are strawman at best and downright nonsensical most of the time.

I made a simple side-point you and a half dozen retards homed in like the autistic chimps that you are. It looks nonsensical to you because you've bought into the bullshit narrative that talent has little to do with who gets to make money and who doesn't, which is mostly the byproduct of talentless hacks who never made it big because they don't, in fact, have the talent they think they have.

Anyway, I'm done with this shit. If you want to sperg over how unjust the world is and how there's swarms of good artists who just can't catch a break feel free to keep playing with yourself.

 

[Lhynn]

So every actor is the same, directors are the ones that make them act and writers are the one that tell them what to say. Acting is not a form of art, because relying emotions that are not your own is something anyone can do with the right directions...? holy fuck.

A computer cant write a book, a computer cant sing a song about love, or hate, or pain, having a son, losing a friend. A computer does not do shit, its nothing but a tool... it cant create art by rearranging elements of a work of art in the same way you cant replicate a good book by ripping it appart and rearranging its pages. Art is a creative process in which the artist express himself, be it to entertain or not and it cannot be replicated by any machine, it can merely be copied. The computer, as any other tool, doesnt "do" anything, we do it using that tool as an extension of our will.

Anyway, I'm done with this shit. If you want to sperg over how unjust the world is and how there's swarms of good artists who just can't catch a break feel free to keep playing with yourself.

And you go again with retarded arguments, i said that there are undiscovered artist, not that the world is filled with them, i said the system does not work for a lot of them. There are people that have been apretiated as good after 20 years of working on the field. Granted, they didnt start good, but they also didnt got good overnight, its a process, and sometimes that process never yields a possitive result no matter how good you may be. Sometimes life forces you to give up or die of hunger, and thats as far as you got to go.

a good mastery of the mechanics involved in producing said art

If thats not saying art is a mechanical process, then i really cant into english. Maybe it is you that made a mistake thinking that i interpreted it as "art is solely a mechanical process".

About the games im currently playing, i play skyrim 4 hours a week, play aow like 10, yet i dont talk about aow because most people here dont care about asian mmos, because they are xenophobic shits that rather judge something before giving it a try solely based on its place of origin. Also no one talks about CoH, yet ive found that game having the best character creation system in any game, ever.
I also dont talk about dins curse much, most people dont give a shit about it, even with its insanely original features.
I dont talk about fallout 1 and 2 much, theres nothing to say about them that hasnt been said before.
I dont talk about shadowrun returns. I enjoyed it, but it didnt bring anything noterworthy to the table.
I talk about PE because i dont like what sawyer is doing with class balance, nothing i can do to stop it tho.
I dont talk about exile much, more than to recomend it, that game was what got me started on cRPGs.
I dont talk about skyrim, i mostly talk about what people do with it, not the game itself, but a unrecognizable mess of modifications that make it fun, some of those modifications are creative and inventive enough to be considered art.

I could give you a list of games ive played, some for the sake of discovering its mechanics, some because i found had interesting features, some because the aesthetic called out to me, or the writing, also i could tell you about books ive read, shows ive watched, music ive listened to. That i dont talk about it doesnt change the fact that i have done it, and that my reasons for doing it are my own.

At first i thought you were trolling, or just trying to be edgy looking for acceptance or a challenge, but i found that you are a jaded idiot that believes games are time wasters and yet spends his valuable time on them. It is sad, in so many ways.

 

[Mastermind]

I'm a compulsive masochist.

So every actor is the same, directors are the ones that make them act and writers are the one that tell them what to say. Acting is not a form of art, because relying emotions that are not your own is something anyone can do with the right directions...? holy fuck.

Rocket science isn't something anyone can do with just the right directions either. Rocket scientists are now artists. Not all plumbers are the same. Plumbers are artists too. You know who else can fake emotions? Poker players, salesmen, diplomats, spies. All of these are now "art" too. Why not just call everything art while you're at it? The only way an actor can be an artist is if he adds his own improvisations, but that's because he's now contributing to the script, not because he's an actor.

A computer cant write a book, a computer cant sing a song about love, or hate, or pain, having a son, losing a friend. A computer does not do shit, its nothing but a tool... it cant create art by rearranging elements of a work of art in the same way you cant replicate a good book by ripping it appart and rearranging its pages. Art is a creative process in which the artist express himself, be it to entertain or not and it cannot be replicated by any machine, it can merely be copied. The computer, as any other tool, doesnt "do" anything, we do it using that tool as an extension of our will.

Yes, a computer is a tool. That's... what I said.

And you go again with retarded arguments, i said that there are undiscovered artist, not that the world is filled with them, i said the system does not work for a lot of them. There are people that have been apretiated as good after 20 years of working on the field. Granted, they didnt start good, but they also didnt got good overnight, its a process, and sometimes that process never yields a possitive result no matter how good you may be. Sometimes life forces you to give up or die of hunger, and thats as far as you got to go.

The system works for everyone who puts in an honest effort into promoting his art. Most people assume it's too hard so they don't bother trying at all.

If thats not saying art is a mechanical process, then i really cant into english. Maybe it is you that made a mistake thinking that i interpreted it as "art is solely a mechanical process".

Art includes a mechanical process. If you try to create something like the mona lisa but all you can draw are stick figures you're not going to produce anything remotely resembling good art. The mechanical process isn't everything, but it's a big part of it. If you can't reproduce what's in your head accurately you are not a good artist, no matter how brilliant your idea may be. Here is an example of good mechanical process (left) vs bad mechanical process (right):

About the games im currently playing, i play skyrim 4 hours a week, play aow like 10, yet i dont talk about aow because most people here dont care about asian mmos, because they are xenophobic shits that rather judge something before giving it a try solely based on its place of origin. Also no one talks about CoH, yet ive found that game having the best character creation system in any game, ever.
I also dont talk about dins curse much, most people dont give a shit about it, even with its insanely original features.
I dont talk about fallout 1 and 2 much, theres nothing to say about them that hasnt been said before.
I dont talk about shadowrun returns. I enjoyed it, but it didnt bring anything noterworthy to the table.
I talk about PE because i dont like what sawyer is doing with class balance, nothing i can do to stop it tho.
I dont talk about exile much, more than to recomend it, that game was what got me started on cRPGs.
I dont talk about skyrim, i mostly talk about what people do with it, not the game itself, but a unrecognizable mess of modifications that make it fun, some of those modifications are creative and inventive enough to be considered art.

I could give you a list of games ive played, some for the sake of discovering its mechanics, some because i found had interesting features, some because the aesthetic called out to me, or the writing, also i could tell you about books ive read, shows ive watched, music ive listened to. That i dont talk about it doesnt change the fact that i have done it, and that my reasons for doing it are my own.

I don't deny that you play games, I just deny that playing games and shooting the breeze on mechanics constitutes "studying". I know, because I've actually studied games and mechanics since I'm actually trying to become a full time indie developer. Proper study of games is pretty boring and not something you do as a hobby, no matter how much you may love games.

At first i thought you were trolling, or just trying to be edgy looking for acceptance or a challenge, but i found that you are a jaded idiot that believes games are time wasters and yet spends his valuable time on them. It is sad, in so many ways.

I don't think games are time wasters, I think they are entertainment rather than the cure for cancer or the sistine chapel (though I'll gladly consider a game that rivals the best works of art to be art in and of itself and worthy of being compared to the sistine chapel if such a game is ever produced, and I dream of making such a game myself one day). I was denigrating art and the snobbery surrounding the term a lot more than I was denigrating games. There's nothing wrong with entertainment.

 

[Name]

Why do developers always want to do what they want to do instead of what we want them to do? At least those publishers want to do what most of us want them to do, using science and marketing.

 

[gromit]

The only way an actor can be an artist is if he adds his own improvisations, but that's because he's now contributing to the script

You are hereby sentenced to 100hrs of competent, yet wholly uninspired and uncreative, readings.

Early release for shutting the fuck up and going back to talking about video games.

 

[Lhynn]

Mastermind
What you are is sort of a dumbfuck, i mean, how can you even argue that an actor is not an artist. really?
-
You did imply that computers were replicating art, which is either a retarded affirmation that holds no meaning because obvious. Or that computers can replicate art by using software, which is not such a dumb affirmation because you could argue that like robots can form behavioral patters with no apparent reason, computers can do the same, which shows that there is evidence (flimsy at best) that a computer/robot has some sort of intelligence, and could, in the future, express itself, and thus, become an artist, that would have been a much clever argument because having no way to prove or disprove that theory i would have had to concede to you.
-
The system does not work for everyone, and how much effort is needed for it to be honest? do they need to grab a gun and take a radio station hostage till they agree to play their song? are there effort units or some sort of effort scale? whats the measure? if you are going to argue a point convince me with something tangible, because do you really believe every single talented artist has had their fair shot? Can you really not think of a single example where a talented hardworking individual didnt get what they deserved?
-
Art is about technique, not just a mechanical process (and sometimes not at all), its also about inspiration, it is about finding a way to let another individual know how you see the world, what you feel about it. If you dont manage to do that, then it is not art, it is merely a product. Dont talk about this shit like there was a recipe, like writing a good book or making a good movie was just following a list of shit that people liked about your (or someone elses) previous work. People fuck up, thats the way of the world, no matter how good you are, you do something long enough, its guaranteed it will fail eventually. If you dont understand it, take a dice, roll it, then roll it again, and again. Thats life.
Screwing up does not make you a bad artist, it just makes you human.
-
Studying can be fun and pleasurable. whether you find it fun or boring is not a point in our argument, its your personal preference and holds no weight here. or maybe you misunderstood and thought i meant the games engine mechanics, coding, etc. I dont give a fuck about those, im talking about the ruleset, the characters, the setting, the writting and things that are harder to see, at least for me, like the mood, the inspiration, the details, the design in general and the reasons behind it.
-
Games can contribute to face real life problems, look it up. so yes, they can not only be art, they can also educational tools, be a medicine of sorts, especially against psychological traumas. They have the potential to bring families together, ive seen it... like books or any form of audio visual media really, but more so because of the interactive component that characterizes them. It is not an exaggeration, as they gain relevance on peoples lives the impact they have and possible applications for them will increase.
There is no snobbery in my way of treating art, art is a human thing, it defines us in a way, but i dont believe that anything labeled art should automatically be thought of as good, shit art is everywhere, but its art nontheless and we should acknowledge its existence without removing the tag of art from it. it is not a sign of status or prestige, merely an indicator of the intention behind the crafting of it.

And i will reiterate, it is us, the one that know, the ones that care. It is us that are best qualified to judge a game and its worth. Not devs, not critics, not anyone but the people that actually care.

PS: i cant be assed to quote you anymore, just take it as it is, dismiss it if you dont care to answer it.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Guys...GUYS. Just what the fuck happened in this thread?

 

[Overboard]

It's just another day in Codexia.

 

[mondblut]

Acting is not a form of art, because relying emotions that are not your own is something anyone can do with the right directions...? holy fuck.

ITT, we discover that all whores are artists extraordinaire.

 

[Vival]

Guys...GUYS. Just what the fuck happened in this thread?

A bunch of spergers sperging out about some sperger sperging out?

 

[Overboard]

Acting is not a form of art, because relying emotions that are not your own is something anyone can do with the right directions...? holy fuck.

ITT, we discover that all whores are artists extraordinaire.

 

[Gord]

Btw., does anyone else think that scene is one of the most stupid in the history of Hollywood?

 

[Overboard]

Yes.

 

[Mastermind]

Mastermind
What you are is sort of a dumbfuck, i mean, how can you even argue that an actor is not an artist. really?

I crush you so you just emote wildly without actually interacting with any of my counter-arguments?

Acting does not involve creating anything, ergo it's not art and the actor is not an artist unless he steps beyond acting to contribute something else.

You did imply that computers were replicating art

"We do. Most digital art relies heavily on computer aid."

I dunno how you got the idea that the computers are doing art BY THEMSELVES from that.

The system does not work for everyone, and how much effort is needed for it to be honest? do they need to grab a gun and take a radio station hostage till they agree to play their song? are there effort units or some sort of effort scale? whats the measure? if you are going to argue a point convince me with something tangible, because do you really believe every single talented artist has had their fair shot? Can you really not think of a single example where a talented hardworking individual didnt get what they deserved?

In modern times? No. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with the system, just the person. This is one of those cases.

I don't really care to answer the rest, I skimmed through it and it's boring and just going in circles. Sorry.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Split this art discussion to GD pls, I want to laugh at Pierre more

 

[Cosmo]

Yes please, go tug angrily on each other's dick elsewhere.
Or at least finally agree on the fact that you both are pretentious bullshitters and ignorant cunts.

 

[Lhynn]

Yes please, go tug angrily on each other's dick elsewhere.
Or at least finally agree on the fact that you both are pretentious bullshitters and ignorant cunts.

well, i am not being pretentious or bullshitting anyone. But maybe i am an ignorant cunt.

 

[Cosmo]

Let's just say neither of your fascinating opinions will make a lasting impression in the field of esthetics and leave it at that.

 

[Haba]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand, making fun of dumbfuck indie developers?

Gotta milk this baby as much as we can, who knows when Pierre goes all Vogel on us.

 

[Lhynn]

I thought that when shit degenerated like it did (my fault) was because the thread was pretty much done.
i mean, what more can you say? the dude seems to be butthurt, or maybe hes executing some sort of bussiness strategy to make negotiations go his way, no way to know till we get more info.

 

[Infinitron]

Jaesun Cleanup on page nine!

 

[buzz]

Yeah, Pierre is such a douche man! He doesn't even know how to make more money.
I mean, look at Jeff Vogel, what a fella! For that guy Steam was a miracle, same with his iOS excluvity and ports to smartphones.

I'm sure that him remaking his older games in a simpler format or making something like Avadon post-Steam had nothing to do with that "success" though. That's just indie vision at work.

 

[J1M]

Btw., does anyone else think that scene is one of the most stupid in the history of Hollywood?

It teaches men not to trust women even if their dick is inside them. It is a public service announcement.

 

[Ninjerk]

Mastermind Lhynn
What is RPG

 

[Mastermind]

Yeah, Pierre is such a douche man! He doesn't even know how to make more money.
I mean, look at Jeff Vogel, what a fella! For that guy Steam was a miracle, same with his iOS excluvity and ports to smartphones.

I'm sure that him remaking his older games in a simpler format or making something like Avadon post-Steam had nothing to do with that "success" though. That's just indie vision at work.

Nothing says "incline" like taking a break from making an RPG to make a shitty RTS with 1 unit and 5 buildings.