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First ever playthrough of Jagged Alliance 2

Shuma

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Feb 26, 2008
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208
Drassen counterattack IS ridiculous. You either have to outright cheat or game the system somehow. I chose to fight at night on a roof as the AI ran back and forth into birghtly lit areas, allowing me to pick them off action movie style. You could replace that with Skyway's inane "take two sectors" suggestion, or hole up in some windowless room, et. al. Doesn't make it any less stupid. Not to mention that this opinion is validated by the fact that the developers purposely took this event out before release.
 

laclongquan

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For the first timer: Dont worry if you cant handle the massive attack. Withdraw out of the city but fighting every step of the way. Make them died for each sector. Dont wound because when their sector are safe they will recover magically (?). Try to reduce their number down to half if you can. Then from outside, start the recapture operation.

Fact is, with 113, even the first conquest wont be easy because out of 3 sectors, there's also 1 or 2 roving patrols team. When you attack, a nearby sector patrol may just enter to investigate and increase the number of enemies. Take it slow and easy, hunt down the roving patrols, attack at night, and recapture when you are kicked out. you will be fine.

With your 6 IMP, hire two or three lowpriced, smart mercs like Igor (WIS >90). In the long run, if they survive, they will be stronger even than the current top mercs, and much cheaper beside.

For the oldtimers: The manly way and hard way is to steal almost all the enemies in one sector. Fact is, playing night boxing with those buggers is more exciting than killing them straight out. and with stealing, if you also play with drop all you will be drown in loots . As it is, night boxing give you more loots than you can profitably dispose of easily. And when hard soldiers start carrying silenced sniper rifle, oh god!
 

Shuma

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GlobalExplorer said:
Did you enable drop all only to be able to handle the counter attack? A very bad choice you made. Do what you like but I play with drassen counterattack off. I also set reinforcements set to "only in cities" because otherwise soldiers will spawn directly in my mercs lap .. complete horseshit.

Nightfighting is indeed kind of a cheat, especially in cities.

Why was this a bad choice? It led to some fun gameplay moments where I ran one of my guys out to pick up an enemy's gear after my merc shot his gun empty. Drop all didn't help much with the actual counterattack, but it made things after the battle much less frustrating. I kill 100 of Deidranna's elites and all I get is a smattering of useless shit? Fuck that.

Without drop all, that part of the game has a terrible risk to reward ratio. It's this epic struggle and in the end you get shit to show for it. It feels totally unfair. In retrospect, the better option would have definitely been to disable the counterattack, but that felt like taking the easy way out.

Granted, I ruined the progression of the game or whatever, but shit, I went to Alma next after Drassen. I didn't know that I was "supposed" to hit San Mona, then Chitzena. Does anyone really like the pistol/smg stage of the game? I played up to Cambria in Gold and I hated that you'd be within a few steps of someone but would still miss pistol shots to the body. It felt totally ridiculous.

I think I have a fundamental problem with loot in games like this as well as RPGs. Loot all just feels better to me. It's as much about that as anything.
 

Annonchinil

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Mar 12, 2007
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Not to derail the discussion but how does X-COM compare to this, especially for someone who does not have a lot of time.
 

Burning Bridges

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Shuma said:
I think I have a fundamental problem with loot in games like this as well as RPGs. Loot all just feels better to me. It's as much about that as anything.

you're free to follow the powergaming suggestions made in this thread, like use 6 IMPs and enemies drop all equipment, and to fight out of the counterattack. I just don't see the fun in that. You will not even check most loot after a few days, and the game will be about nothing but fighting and more fighting. When you resort to 6IMPS you might as well set god mode. Better set STRATEGIC_EVENT_SEND_TROOPS_TO_DRASSEN = FALSE, stick with the original games progression, i.e. 1 IMP, low level mercs, no money cheats, and learn to optimize the sparse resources you get.
 

Shuma

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GlobalExplorer said:
Shuma said:
I think I have a fundamental problem with loot in games like this as well as RPGs. Loot all just feels better to me. It's as much about that as anything.

you're free to follow the powergaming suggestions made in this thread, like use 6 IMPs and enemies drop all equipment, and to fight out of the counterattack. I just don't see the fun in that. You will not even check most loot after a few days, and the game will be about nothing but fighting and more fighting. When you resort to 6IMPS you might as well set god mode. Better set STRATEGIC_EVENT_SEND_TROOPS_TO_DRASSEN = FALSE, stick with the original games progression, i.e. 1 IMP, low level mercs, no money cheats, and learn to optimize the sparse resources you get.

My main playthrough was 1 IMP, Iron Man, Normal difficulty, drop all. It was definitely enjoyable, but by the end I was pushing quick to end it. But this is after 2-3 weeks of solid playing. A game hasn't riveted me like that in a long time.
 

MetalCraze

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GlobalExplorer said:
powergaming suggestions made in this thread, like [...] enemies drop all equipment

I fail to see how this is power-gaming.
a) it's realistic
b) the game introduces better guns only with time so even with that option on you will still get tons of useless shit (in about 90% cases) which you won't use. And your mercs can't carry everything anyway. I still had to buy really good (and useful) guns through Bobby Ray's nearly always.
 

Burning Bridges

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you're free to ruin a perfect system with whatever you like :wink:

MetalCraze said:
I fail to see how this is power-gaming.
a) it's realistic

is turn based tactics realistic?

MetalCraze said:
b) the game introduces better guns only with time so even with that option on you will still get tons of useless shit (in about 90% cases) which you won't use.

there you say it yourself, tons of useless shit
 

MetalCraze

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GlobalExplorer said:
is turn based tactics realistic?
Why not? Yes turn-based is not realistic but consider that one turn is just a small fraction of a second and the game models other stuff according to how it goes on in reality with lots of neat details. Of course it isn't OFP/ArmA - but weapons disappearing into the thin air when they die is too much.

there you say it yourself, tons of useless shit
Exactly. Still they may drop ammo that one of your guns requires or NVG which you don't yet have. Your mercs can carry 2-3 assault guns at max so in no way you will leave the battlefield with tons of stuff.
Why not? I completed JA2 with this option two times and never felt that it was imba. However running out of ammo and picking some of it from the dead enemy's pockets (or finding a pair of throwing knives which you could use to your own advantage) was far more realistic than having 50 enemies lying dead with their stuff being vapourized.
 

Burning Bridges

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Yes but with the default you already get enough ammo, throwing knifes, weapons, etc. The difference is, you get just barely enough, and you get more powerful equipment a little later than the enemy. If you want more gear all you need is a little proficiency in hand to hand combat, or you could also hire a top merc for 1 day (e.g. Reaper or Magic). I mean I played with drop all myself, and it killed my interest in equipment.

MetalCraze said:
Why not? Yes turn-based is not realistic but consider that one turn is just a small fraction of a second and the game models other stuff according to how it goes on in reality with lots of neat details. Of course it isn't OFP/ArmA - but weapons disappearing into the thin air when they die is too much.

Ok I think I didn't make my point clear. What I wanted to say was that with tb tactics realism should never be an argument, since they are designed for optimal playability before all else.
If you start introducing features only for the sake of realism you will end up with a real time system, a mighty frustrating one in fact. That's the reason that in chess the king is the least powerful piece (and not the queen), although it is not realistic.
 

MetalCraze

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I never said JA2 was totally realistic or should be. However some stuff should be closer to how it really goes in reality. Especially when it doesn't ruin the gameplay but is a logical addition to it.

The difference is, you get just barely enough, and you get more powerful equipment a little later than the enemy
Bobby Ray's place always has guns one step further than the enemy and even it is limited by the balance (new weapons over time thing).
You don't get lots of ammo either as enemies carry a large variety of guns and 90% of ammo simply won't fit into your gun or isn't needed.

I mean I played with drop all myself, and it killed my interest in equipment.
You haven't played for too long then or by "killed interest in equipment" you mean stuff like "wow all enemies just drop stuff I don't need". Because you never really get top-notch stuff from usual red shirts. In fact after a middle of the game they carry inferior guns compared to what you can just buy at Bobby Ray's (and you have more than enough money for that by that time).
Bah some of the mercs you hire - medium ones - carry better guns at the start of the game than enemies (like assault rifles)
 

ady5

Educated
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
73
What's so hard in changing weapons when you run out of ammo? Make it a little bit more challenging. Run with a spare weapon, and throw it from one to another. Learn ammo management...sheesh. I always thought the best part in JA2 is item management. Take that away, and by the end, you'll be bored to death and won't enjoy a second playthrough with different weapons and tactics.

Ja2 has already a pretty retarded and exploitable AI, and the only real difficulty you have is in the enemy numbers. Granted, 1.13 has gone light years ahead with the AI, but it's still exploitable if you allow yourself to do it. And sometimes you'll do it. At least give yourself a challenge in other parts, like starving for items.

I thought us guys in the arpegee kkkodecs like tough games, that don't take shit easily from us. What happened to "the harder the game, the better the fun?"
 

MetalCraze

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The only way for me to starve for items is to ignore mines (as in - don't capture cities) as I buy weapons from Bobby Ray's and have enough money left to train militia after that. Regardless of whether "drop all" is on or off.
I played it both ways.
 

laclongquan

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The first time I play 113 I innocently turn on Drop All. Restart pretty damn quick. I know it's more realistic than a vapoured loots but man, talk about a jade experience. When you see each target you no longer contemplate what goodies you might get from that walking corpse. You get in , you massacre them quick, then check the sector inventory. Talk about boring.

The fun thing to play is boxing then stealing each and every one of them. It require me to set up ambush, force me to use dangerous but loud weapons as a last resort, and it make my palm sweat to guess which loots shall I have. Time consuming, but oh so fun.

of course, for 1st timer it could be quite dangerous and frustrating as you dont know all the tricks of trade. So in that case, you could play what style you want:
Easiest way : play night fighting, use night ops, kill them all with silenced weapons.
Middle way: Daytime assault, frontal attack. It has its moments, and sometimes when I feel like finish a sector quick I do this shit. Very fun in its own brutal way.
Hard way: take it easy, take it slow. stealing shits, maintain gunrunning to Bobby Ray, fighting for money in San Mona. Since you play slow, when you get down to the South, enemies are elites with top of the line equipments. And the patrol attacks are simply dangerous. In late game, even with your full roster you cant deal with all the attack, since you cant be everywhere. And in that case, withdraw then recapture is sometimes easier than stand and fight.

Mind you, to each his own. If you want to play Drop All or whatever, that is your right, I wont squeak a pip. But if you are talking shit about my way, be prepared to be argued down.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
I think nothing beats the thrill of storming Alma with full mortar support.

3 auto rifleman 1 sniper and Grizzly the mortar guy. Plus a slave to carry all the shells.

Nothing like spotting targets with snipers and calling down the bombardment down on a cluster of 4-6
 

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