Demon's Souls

Zinc · Jun 5, 2010

I've heard grand things about this one. It's been out abroad for a while but it's coming to Europe in a few weeks time. I've heard it is very unforgiving and can become frustrating at times, but overall is an excellent game. Anyone here played it? What were your thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon's_Souls

SuicideBunny · Jun 5, 2010

ai can be easily abused most of the time, especially with ranged weapons, pvp is a friggin joke.

it's only unforgiving if you play it for the first few hours and online with all the funnay false messages, and just isn't interesting enough in the long run, especially not to play it a couple times or start bothering with the white/black world crap.

AlaCarcuss · Jun 5, 2010

SuicideBunny said:
ai can be easily abused most of the time, especially with ranged weapons, pvp is a friggin joke.

it's only unforgiving if you play it for the first few hours and online with all the funnay false messages, and just isn't interesting enough in the long run, especially not to play it a couple times or start bothering with the white/black world crap.

Nup, can't agree with this.

For me, Demon's Souls is possibly the greatest console game ever made. Fantastic oppressive dark lonely atmosphere. Incredible varied and large level/world design. Same goes for creatures. Some of the greatest boss battles ever seen, even the mini-bosses are awesome.

Combat can be very, VERY challanging, although it does get easier as you level and work out enemy patterns etc.

It's one of those games that leaves a lasting impression, kinda imprints itself on your brain. These types of games are few and far between, especially on consoles. But obviously it's not everyone's cup-a-tea as the self-destructive rabbit's response shows.

It releases here in oz soon too, but I couldn't wait so I imported it last year.

Edit: Damn you! You made me go and fire it up again - now I have to stop my AP torrent :evil:

SuicideBunny · Jun 5, 2010

dunno. maybe it just didn't click with me, but the bosses weren't really that interesting. being able to take out the tower knight and red dragon without taking damage was stupid, even if they are early bosses, and there were too many incredibly easy grind areas.

1eyedking · Jun 5, 2010

It's shit.

Mangoose · Jun 5, 2010

SuicideBunny said:
dunno. maybe it just didn't click with me, but the bosses weren't really that interesting. being able to take out the tower knight and red dragon without taking damage was stupid, even if they are early bosses, and there were too many incredibly easy grind areas.

Yeah, my friend says it starts out easy and then gets really fucking hard. I watched him play it. It's so easy to die, where he's at, and at every death you lose the XP you have gained since you started the dungeon.

SuicideBunny · Jun 5, 2010

which means squat because there are a fuckton of areas near stones that you can grind for very fast very easy souls.

Squiggle · Jun 5, 2010

SuicideBunny said:
which means squat because there are a fuckton of areas near stones that you can grind for very fast very easy souls.

Sure you could be a grinding faggot and spend hours killing the same guys in the same spot, but after a few character levels it becomes useless. Or you could be a cool guy and press on and kill a boss and get way more souls in way less time and have way more fun. You do not have to grind, and if you do you'll quickly find it's not very rewarding in the amount of souls you get.

The AI is not bad at all. Yes, you can learn their moves and avoid them, but the amount of moves a monster has (not to mention the different weapons they can use, each with their own different moveset) will keep you on your toes until you figure out each one. And even then they sometimes throw curveballs or some environmental factor will kick your butt.

Although PvP is very different from standard PvP games, it can be very very fun. Sometimes I go into soulform just to be a black phantom and fuck other peoples' games up.

This game is the only console game I play. It is good. It is fun. It is challenging. It's worth getting.

Mangoose · Jun 5, 2010

SuicideBunny said:
which means squat because there are a fuckton of areas near stones that you can grind for very fast very easy souls.

Which means squat when you come up across enemies that two-shot you. He has planned out build, and I'm sure he's grinded (based on his playstyle through other games).

Overweight Manatee · Jun 5, 2010

The difficulty of the game is vastly overrated by the consolefag generation. There are like, 2 instances in the game where enemies will move faster then your character and will surround you. Everything else is fairly slow and shambling, you are the one who decides when and where to engage so fighting most things is a matter of being careful not to fall off edges or leading them to some place you won't. Bosses are all a let down in terms of difficulty, again because you almost never really rushed by a fast moving enemy except with the fire demon and the gargoyles, which coincidentally were the hardest and most exciting boss for me though they were both still pretty easy. One nice thing BTW is that stealth is almost always an option in this game, you can stealth away from even most bosses then come back and backstab them. Given this, every death in this game is purely a result of playing sloppy no matter your playstyle.

Which means squat when you come up across enemies that two-shot you. He has planned out build, and I'm sure he's grinded (based on his playstyle through other games).

There are plenty of ways to become strong enough to take ten hits at a time, but it isn't needed. The defensive roll's invincibility frames are all the protection you need. Though I'm probably advantaged at this more then most since I am very good at other action games. Grinding really isn't all that important, all you get is 1 stat point per level and the stats hit a plateau around 30ish, everything past that is worth far less. Considering you probably start the game with a character who has his important stats around 15, you hardly need to grind at all. I've beaten the game with a level 1 character, its not that difficult. If you go the magic route or ranged attack route you pretty much won the game already since there isn't a single enemy that applies effective ranged damage in the game.

That said, it should definitely be played at least once just for the atmosphere. Every level is wonderfully different and shows off some amazing level design. The exploration of desolate areas is whats great, the combat is secondary to that. Most of the boss fights are epic even if they are relatively simple to defeat. Once you have played through it once or twice though, don't expect that you are going to want to replay it ever again unless you are easily amused or just like screwing with other players.

But like AlaCarcuss says

AlaCarcuss said:
It's one of those games that leaves a lasting impression, kinda imprints itself on your brain. These types of games are few and far between, especially on consoles. But obviously it's not everyone's cup-a-tea as the self-destructive rabbit's response shows.

Monkeyfinger · Jun 5, 2010

Storm king, false king and penetrator move fast enough to keep up with you too, as do most of the random enemies in world 4.

You can't stealth past much in demon's souls. A lot of enemies are slow but passageways are pretty narrow and rare is the enemy that gives up chase. Even if you give one group of enemies the slip they will catch up to you when you encounter something guarding a bridge or corridor that you have to kill.

Bows and attack magic do give the slow enemies hell though.

Demon's souls is a lot like mass effect 2 in one way, I realize as I type this up... it's so boring to play in the most efficient way. Dying a lot in melee combat may be frustrating enough to make some players quit, but killing 75% of the mooks by sniping them with soul arrow or... actual arrows is guaranteed to make anyone sane quit out of boredom. I usually hate the whole "challenge automatically = quality" train of thought on communities like the codex, but it does apply here - DS is either really hard or really boring, you can't avoid both.

There's no invincibility frames on the roll btw. Sure some enemies swing too high to hit you while you're rolling, but stomps, ground punches, overhead chops, etc will damage you if they hit you during a roll, and there's often no room to do a side roll.

made · Jun 5, 2010

Looks interesting tbh. Can't wait for a PS3 emulator to try this out.

thekdawg21 · Jun 5, 2010

Demon's Souls is quite clearly the best console ARPG out there. Get it.

Ruprekt · Jun 5, 2010

made said:
Looks interesting tbh. Can't wait for a PS3 emulator to try this out.

You need a 4ghz quad core to emulate the 300mhz PS2.

I don't think there will ever be a PC CPU that can emulate the PS3's Cell at a usable speed.

Overweight Manatee · Jun 5, 2010

Monkeyfinger said:
Storm king, false king and penetrator move fast enough to keep up with you too, as do most of the random enemies in world 4.

Storm king, no. False king does, but he also isn't all that aggressive in the first place with all of his attacks being either easily dodgable or with large windup times. Penetrator was OK, but frankly just too weak. You are right about the skellies in world 4, those guys freaked me out at first and I forgot about them.

Monkeyfinger said:
You can't stealth past much in demon's souls. A lot of enemies are slow but passageways are pretty narrow and rare is the enemy that gives up chase. Even if you give one group of enemies the slip they will catch up to you when you encounter something guarding a bridge or corridor that you have to kill.

I didn't really mean stealth as in get past them, but get the first strike in and kill one with a backstab. Lead them from their post then evade and backstab them as they look around wondering where you went. At the very least, stealth characters only fight 1 or 2 enemies at a time where other characters need to fight an entire room.

Monkeyfinger said:
There's no invincibility frames on the roll btw. Sure some enemies swing too high to hit you while you're rolling, but stomps, ground punches, overhead chops, etc will damage you if they hit you during a roll, and there's often no room to do a side roll.

No, there are definitely invincibility frames. They just aren't perfect. Most standard attacks will whiff, but in cases where it obviously shouldn't it won't, like with a dragon breathing fire around the whole area. Maybe there is a better word for such a thing, but I don't know it.

Ruprekt said:
made said:

Looks interesting tbh. Can't wait for a PS3 emulator to try this out.

Click to expand...

You need a 4ghz quad core to emulate the 300mhz PS2.

I don't think there will ever be a PC CPU that can emulate the PS3's Cell at a usable speed.

I don't see it being impossible. The problem with emulation isn't mere speed difference, its how much custom code you need to write to make up for the differences in architecture. The PS2 is its own almost completely custom architecture that needed to be reverse engineered and the emulator guys still don't entirely know how certain parts work. The PS3, on the other hand, is a well known and documented architecture that has a lot more in common with an x86-64 architecture standards. It will probably not happen soon though, not only because of lack of raw power but due to the lack of interest in the PS3 platform as a whole.

Mangoose · Jun 5, 2010

Ah, he played/is playing as a melee character.

Ruprekt · Jun 5, 2010

From what I've read it's not so much the raw power thing as bandwidth. Even if you have a quad core cpu with each core emulating 2 of the cells SPUs, with the current PC architecture it won't work.

Or this could be complete BS?

AlaCarcuss · Jun 6, 2010

Ruprekt said:
From what I've read it's not so much the raw power thing as bandwidth. Even if you have a quad core cpu with each core emulating 2 of the cells SPUs, with the current PC architecture it won't work.

Or this could be complete BS?

Just get a dedicated hardware based emulator - a PS3 slim emulates a PS3 fat quite well :wink:

Dirk Diggler · Jul 18, 2010

I bought this game the day before yesterday, and it's intensely badass. It's been a long time since I have been this challenged by a game. The combat is awesome and satisfying. I'm playing through as a magician, beat the first level and have kind of poked around the others a bit but haven't beat anymore just quite yet.

I take it things are easier if you complete them one world at a time? It sure feels that way. The mindflayers and skeletons are ROUGH.

Also, is fighting with a 2h weapon viable really? It seems like the shield is just absolutely necessary for most encounters.

Damned Registrations · Jul 18, 2010

Depends on what you're fighting and which 2H weapon. If you can guarantee a stun or knockdown with your swing and get the first hit in, a 2H weapon can be awesome.

My first really successful run through was using a shield though, at first with a mace, then a halberd (swapping between halberd + shield and 2Hing the halberd depending on the foe) and finally some giant ass sword meant to be two handed held in one hand and shield in the other.

Depends on yours stats and stuff though. I made sure to have enough endurance (Or strength or vitality? I forget which mattered) that my equipment didn't slow me down at all (I was wearing some ratty robes or something towards the end since my sword + shield weighed a ton). If you're beyond a certain point encumbrance wise your ninja dodge roll turns into a sort of dive to the ground and slowly get up maneuver. Which doesn't really help for most situations.

Also, all the fags saying it sucks because they read a frigging guide on how to play and then farmed souls for a few hours should go back to playing WoW. :decline:

If you have any nerve at all you dive as deep as you can into unknown territory and kick ass or die trying.

Castanova · Jul 18, 2010

Actually, no, it's generally a bad idea to beat a world before moving onto the next. You should progress through them relatively evenly... something like 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1. Basically, you should poke around and complete whichever level seems easiest at that moment in time. It's easier to do the second time you play the game (you know which items you need and where to get them).

As a magician, you should generally use an upgraded Winged Spear + Purple Flame Shield because you can attack with spears without dropping your guard. That being said, if you're doing a melee oriented build then going 2-handers is totally doable. For my second playthrough, I did a Paladin build centered around a particular 2-handed weapon perfect for a Faith character and the build almost broke the game it was so overpowered. That being said, the build became notably less powerful in New Game+.

laclongquan · Jul 18, 2010

And sometimes gamefaq guides give you plain bad advices too.

thekdawg21 · Jul 18, 2010

Castanova is correct, except 1-2 will probably be a bit much for you as a magician with lower level spells. You might be able to grind through it, but I highly recommend 2-1 -> 3-1 -> 4-1 -> 5-1. Taking it slow and regenning magic with the ring your royal started with. (You did start as a royal, right?)

Dirk Diggler · Jul 18, 2010

Castanova said:
Actually, no, it's generally a bad idea to beat a world before moving onto the next. You should progress through them relatively evenly... something like 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1. Basically, you should poke around and complete whichever level seems easiest at that moment in time. It's easier to do the second time you play the game (you know which items you need and where to get them).

Okay, I guess I was just mistaken because 1-2 seems waaaaay more doable than any of the others. I guess this isn't going to be the trend that carries on tho.

As a magician, you should generally use an upgraded Winged Spear + Purple Flame Shield because you can attack with spears without dropping your guard. That being said, if you're doing a melee oriented build then going 2-handers is totally doable. For my second playthrough, I did a Paladin build centered around a particular 2-handed weapon perfect for a Faith character and the build almost broke the game it was so overpowered. That being said, the build became notably less powerful in New Game+.

Hmm, interesting. I'm actually kind of just using what I feel is appropriate for the situation. At the moment, that's a long sword and a mail-breaker(busted out the club on the stormking's level). I seem to rock the house with both melee and magic so far, just a matter of doing the right thing at the right time.

Dunno what guys are talking about with hard to sneak though. You can find a lot of opportunities to sneak around if you just take it slow while you are moving about. The LOS on the enemies is actually kind of small from what I've seen so far.

thekdawg21 said:
Castanova is correct, except 1-2 will probably be a bit much for you as a magician with lower level spells. You might be able to grind through it, but I highly recommend 2-1 -> 3-1 -> 4-1 -> 5-1. Taking it slow and regenning magic with the ring your royal started with. (You did start as a royal, right?)

No, I started as a magician. Is that gonna be a big problem or something? I've done pretty decently so far I would say. I just picked up the ring of gash resistance in world 1-2 and am still lookin' pretty good.

ricolikesrice · Jul 18, 2010

i recommend giving 4-1 a try because rather early in that level there is a great beginners weapon (crescent falchion +1) which not only does decent damage, has a good move-set but also comes with passive mana regen (even if it isnt much, every bit helps). it might be very rough for a beginner s mage because the enemies in 4-1 can be pretty quick but should be doable with some patience and training.

other great beginners weapon are halberds / the mirdan hammer.

playing a magic oriented character first isnt that hard to be honest, many enemies/encounters that d be a bitch as a pure melee can be easily reduced to "fireball fireball LOL" and lets not even talk about the firestorm cheese on many bosses... playing a melee focused char is an entirely different (and more fun/challenging) experience.

that being said, its still quite easily possible to die if you are careless even as a mage, something thats missing from 99% of other games these days

anyhow, have fun . i pretty much bought a PS3 for this and it was worth every cent (especially considering how much money i wasted on shit like DoW2, Empire Total War, Dragon Age & co. last year .... )

Demon's Souls

Unwanted

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Arbiter

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Erudite

Arcane

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Novice

Arcane

Scholar

Cipher

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Augur

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Arcane

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Arbiter

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

Prophet

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