Morrowind As Above So Below

A common theme in Elder Scrolls lore is that the universe acts in someway as an echo chamber. The White Gold Tower in Oblivion resembles the Towers which hold together the Mundus who then resemble the Aurbis, the universe itself. Much of what your characters and those around her do is something a play re-enacting some great past event.

This is even how one attains godhood in the ES lore. You "walk like them", those who came before. You emulate the gods to become a god, play out the happenings of their lives. This is why Tiber Septim removed Arctus' heart (or something to that effect, time got all screwy and just who's heart it was is not entirely clear). He did it because Akatosh removed Lorkhan's Heart. This is all over the place in the lore.

To become the Nerevarine you must become the Hortator of 3 houses and the Nerevarine of 4 tribes. On this playthrough I notice that this mirrors the Dunmer relationship with the Daedra. There are 3 "Anticipations" (replaced by the Tribunal) and 4 Corners of the House of Troubles. The 4 Trouble Daedra are still respected and you are sent to visit them in a pilgrimage for the Temple. Is this an intentional mirroring or just that these are low numbers and odds are high they would be used? If the former what is the significance? What does this say about the Nerevarine's quest, how might it parrellel past events?

Sounds like King of Dragon Pass. The Elder Scrolls lore is actually pretty cool (pre-Oblivion).

Oblivion added nothing other than some corrections and lore about the aylieds.

I hope the next tes isn't in skyrim but summerset or valenwood those would be so much better and interesting to look at.

Also most of tes lore is a study of parallels. Things like the Worm King and the God of Worms. Or almsivi. Or nerevarene and hey even the OBs story. I have a feeling we are going to see more of martin in the next game...

roll-a-die said:

I hope the next tes isn't in skyrim but summerset or valenwood those would be so much better and interesting to look at.

Click to expand...

I wish Skyrim for this reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVwAtJRXBkE
And also, Nords worship Dragons, not faggots like the Nine Divines.

Wrong they still worship Aedra(Our ancestors) and some Daedra(Not our ancestors) just with different names and you will likely never see a dragon as the are gone from the world with the exception of the supreme tiger dragon of akavir.

Also Nordic myth in elder scrolls is much more cliche than something like the cannibalistic wood elves whom are essentially hippies. Or the summerset isle. Not only that but it would be interesting to look at. Beth proved they could still do unique locations with SI. I want to see more of that.


Also here are the nordic gods
"Nordic Gods
Alduin
(World Eater) Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Eight Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, ravaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one. Nords therefore see the god of time as both creator and harbinger of the apocalypse. He is not the chief of the Nordic pantheon (in fact, that pantheon has no chief; see Shor, below) but its wellspring, albeit a grim and frightening one.
Dibella
(Goddess of Beauty) Popular god of the Eight Divines. In Cyrodiil, she has nearly a dozen different cults, some devoted to women, some to artists and aesthetics, and others to erotic instruction.
Orkey
(Old Knocker) A loan-god of the Nords, who seem to have taken up his worship during Aldmeri rule of Atmora. Nords believe they once lived as long as Elves until Orkey appeared; through heathen trickery, he fooled them into a bargain that 'bound them to the count of winters'. At one time, legends say, Nords only had a lifespan of six years due to Orkey's foul magic. Shor showed up, though, and, through unknown means, removed the curse, throwing most of it onto the nearby Orcs.
Tsun Extinct Nordic god of trials against adversity. Died defending Shor from foreign gods
Mara
(Goddess of Love) Nearly universal goddess. Origins started in mythic times as a fertility goddess. In Skyrim, Mara is a handmaiden of Kyne. In the Empire, she is Mother-Goddess. She is sometimes associated with Nir of the 'Anuad', the female principle of the cosmos that gave birth to creation. Depending on the religion, she is either married to Akatosh or Lorkhan, or the concubine of both.
Stuhn
(God of Ransom) Nordic precursor to Stendarr, brother of Tsun. Shield-thane of Shor, Stuhn was a warrior god that fought against the Aldmeri pantheon. He showed Men how to take, and the benefits of taking, prisoners of war
Kyne
(Kiss At the End) Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men. Her daughters taught the first Nords the use of the thu'um, or Storm Voice.
Jhunal
(Rune God) The Nordic god of hermetic orders. After falling out of favor with the rest of that pantheon, he became Julianos of the Eight Divines. He is absent in modern Skyrim mythology.
Shor
(God of the Underworld) Nordic version of Lorkhan, who takes sides with Men after the creation of the world. Foreign gods (i.e., Elven ones) conspire against him and bring about his defeat, dooming him to the underworld. Atmoran myths depict him as a bloodthirsty warrior king who leads the Nords to victory over their Aldmeri oppressors time and again. Before his doom, Shor was the chief of the gods. Sometimes also called Children's God (see Orkey, above).
Ysmir
(Dragon of the North) The Nordic aspect of Talos. He withstood the power of the Greybeards' voices long enough to hear their prophecy. Later, many Nords could not look on him without seeing a dragon.
Herma-Mora
(The Woodland Man) Ancient Atmoran demon who, at one time, nearly seduced the Nords into becoming Aldmer. Most Ysgramor myths are about escaping the wiles of old Herma-Mora. Also called the Demon of Knowledge, he is vaguely related to the cult origins of the Morag Tong ('Foresters Guild'), if only by association with his brother/sister, Mephala.
Mauloch
(Mountain Fart) Orcish god of the Velothi Mountains, Mauloch troubled the heirs of King Harald for a long time. Fled east after his defeat at the Battle of Dragon Wall, ca. 1E660. His rage was said to fill the sky with his sulphurous hatred, later called the "Year of Winter in Summer". "

Valenwood should be interesting, but Summerset Isles? Meh... We already seen something like that on Shivering Isles.

Any idea about Nerevarine? All I know about him is that he traveled to Akavir but never returned.

Dead or ruling over the small population of men that reside there. When ever the game is done bethesda makes the PC fade off into history. IE your character from OB is now sheggie and will be doing daedricie things so you won't see him at all.

roll-a-die said:

Dead or ruling over the small population of men that reside there. When ever the game is done bethesda makes the PC fade off into history. IE your character from OB is now sheggie and will be doing daedricie things so you won't see him at all.

Click to expand...

The Champion of Oblivion must have died from old age since 200 years is to much for anyone, same thing happened with the Champion of Arena. The Emperor's friend (Daggerfall) died on The Warp in the West.
Since Nerevarine is immortal to old age and diseases he is the only one who still alive. Dead? No way, he defeated gods and a daedric prince, he can't die to some silly ape or snake.

Where is it mentioned that the nereverine is immortal?

Claiming the mantle of a realm within stasis doesn't qualify you for immortality but being the reincarnation of a war hero does?

If you don't understand what I just said. Ehm so with the mundus and oblivion you have two primal forces stasis and change mundus(nirn and its moons) is apart of change things there can change easily and freely. Sheogoraths realm and most daedric realms is a part of stasis things don't change easily except at the turn of eras when the boundary blurs a bit. Sheogorath stays crazy except on certain set events(the greymarch).

That's as best as I could explain it you could also ask the TES:lore forum they would know better than me.

URPS corpus disease cure thing forgot about that for a sec. Thats why the nereverine is ageless.

I still don't think he could take on the hordes of Akavir and survive. He may be a guest to the Tang'Mo or the Tiger Dragon Emperor

Helton said:

A common theme in Elder Scrolls lore is that the universe acts in someway as an echo chamber. The White Gold Tower in Oblivion resembles the Towers which hold together the Mundus who then resemble the Aurbis, the universe itself. Much of what your characters and those around her do is something a play re-enacting some great past event.

This is even how one attains godhood in the ES lore. You "walk like them", those who came before. You emulate the gods to become a god, play out the happenings of their lives. This is why Tiber Septim removed Arctus' heart (or something to that effect, time got all screwy and just who's heart it was is not entirely clear). He did it because Akatosh removed Lorkhan's Heart. This is all over the place in the lore.

To become the Nerevarine you must become the Hortator of 3 houses and the Nerevarine of 4 tribes. On this playthrough I notice that this mirrors the Dunmer relationship with the Daedra. There are 3 "Anticipations" (replaced by the Tribunal) and 4 Corners of the House of Troubles. The 4 Trouble Daedra are still respected and you are sent to visit them in a pilgrimage for the Temple. Is this an intentional mirroring or just that these are low numbers and odds are high they would be used? If the former what is the significance? What does this say about the Nerevarine's quest, how might it parrellel past events?

Click to expand...

Does Ch1ef no like mo-ro-win?

I enjoyed placing a rock on my jump button and wanking to nina hartley. Didn't you?

I enjoyed hoarding Sujamma which allowed you to boost your strenght indefinitely and kill anything with ease. And murdering everybody with taunt.

4 times Nerevarine, 4 Corners of the House of Troubles
3 times Hortator, 3 Anticipations

Topic, people, fuck.

roll-a-die said:

Does Ch1ef no like mo-ro-win?

Click to expand...

No, he is more of a moron who loses.

Also, it's spelled "More-of-win".

"roll-a-die said:

Where is it mentioned that the nereverine is immortal?

Claiming the mantle of a realm within stasis doesn't qualify you for immortality but being the reincarnation of a war hero does?

Click to expand...

It's more of a corprus thing, rather than (maybe) a reincarnation of a war hero thing, but yeah.

Although I don't think that after mantling shaggy CoC(k) will ever die. He may dissolve in sheogorathiness, though. Personally I found the ending of SI unpleasantly baffling, although the expansion itself fucking towered over the overwhelming blandness of oblivion like PS:T over BG (which only underlines how shitty the OB was, as SI while quite atmospheric and certainly decent enough to finish it, was hardly a stellar game).

Also, it's mentioned here:

The Seven Visions said:

[These are the words of the prophecy called "Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate." I wrote them down as she spoke them to me.]

seven trials
What he puts his hand to, that shall be done.
What is left undone, that shall be done.

first trial
On a certain day to uncertain parents
Incarnate moon and star reborn.

second trial
Neither blight nor age can harm him.
The Curse-of-Flesh before him flies.

third trial
In caverns dark Azura's eye sees
And makes to shine the moon and star.

fourth trial
A stranger's voice unites the Houses.
Three Halls call him Hortator.

fifth trial
A stranger's hand unites the Velothi.
Four Tribes call him Nerevarine.

sixth trial
He honors blood of the tribe unmourned.
He eats their sin, and is reborn.

seventh trial
His mercy frees the cursed false gods,
Binds the broken, redeems the mad.

one destiny
He speaks the law for Veloth's people.
He speaks for their land, and names them great.

Click to expand...

Everyone's favourite millenia old sorcerer dabbling in growing ladies out of in vitro cultures also confirms.

As for the numbers, I don't know, but given MK it's quite possible.

As for Oblivion and lore it mostly raped it. The climate change in Cyrodill was pointless and idiotic regardless of MK's heroic (but failed) attempt to make a save against stupid.
It's the game where loading screens said that Uriel VII was Direct descendant of Tiber and that had this as it's central premise - , the wonderfully diverse and vibrant province turned into generic bowdlerized LoTR rip-off happyland and every single fucking thing was infused with concentrated suck.

Oblivion is as much Elder Scrolls lore-rape as Fallout 3 is Fallout lore-rape.

It's sad, really, because there aren't many RPGs with lore as awesome as TES.

Once the Nerevarine contracted corprus, his aging pretty much stopped cold. That's one of the hallmarks of it, along with complete immunity from sickness or disease.


And Divayth Fyr didn't cure you, he simply developed something to take away the negatives (weakening effects, plus eventual insanity).



So you've got someone who won't age, can't get sick, and has up till this point taken out a couple Demi-Gods (the Tribunal were de-powered to the point I can't consider them true gods anymore), an aspect of a Daedra (Hircine), the biggest and baddest Frost Giant around (Kaarstaag), and pretty much the entirety of the Sixth House and Dagoth Ur. This isn't mentioning powerful NPCs like Telvanni Mage-Lords, Liches or Draugrs, or even Minor Daedra Lords depending on your choices. Or folks like Umbra, who themselves have similarly impressive backgrounds.


If anyone from the days or Morrowind or Oblivion is still alive come the next TES game, it'd be the Nerevarine. He's not growing old, and nothing short of another Daedra trying to drop some of the moon on him (like they did Vivec) is going to stop him. Not that we'll hear anything of him, probably.

oscarisaiah said:

Sounds like King of Dragon Pass. The Elder Scrolls lore is actually pretty cool (pre-Oblivion).

Click to expand...

Well, there is a reason for it. Ken Rolston, before working with Morrowind, worked on P&P rpgs, like Runequest. If you follow that link, you will see he had a pretty big role in Runequest for some years, even being one of the authors of the third edition. Runequest is an rpg set in the same world as King of Dragon Pass.

lolwutjungle

Threads like this make me wish I paid more attention to the lore and history found in Morrowind rather than running around killing shit and ganking Daedric Armor for the 10th playthrough.

Where would one start to read up on the history?

The Ninth Circle said:

Threads like this make me wish I paid more attention to the lore and history found in Morrowind rather than running around killing shit and ganking Daedric Armor for the 10th playthrough.

Where would one start to read up on the history?

Click to expand...

The Imperial Library is probably a good place to start, it's easily the largest resource of ES lore, UESP is a lot more presentable, though..

The Ninth Circle said:

Threads like this make me wish I paid more attention to the lore and history found in Morrowind rather than running around killing shit and ganking Daedric Armor for the 10th playthrough.

Where would one start to read up on the history?

Click to expand...

TIL is a good place to start

MW is a game of atmosphere, lore and exploration. It excels at them, unlike powergaming (boring and unbalanced), combat (clunky), C&C (too few, too limited). Ok, magic system is flexible enough to be interesting, but, from purely technical point of view, there is little of interest in Morrowind - the main points of interest are the setting and atmosphere you soak in as you explore and those are hard to quantify.

Also, keep you eyes peeled for hidden information in Morrowind.

You may very well find an obscure tomb of a powerful sorcerer, loaded with daedric loot by paying attention to a book found in a roadside bandit hideout where a summoning went wrong. Except that this information is not explicit and you have to connect the dots by yourself.

DraQ said:

The Ninth Circle said:

Threads like this make me wish I paid more attention to the lore and history found in Morrowind rather than running around killing shit and ganking Daedric Armor for the 10th playthrough.

Where would one start to read up on the history?

Click to expand...

TIL is a good place to start

MW is a game of atmosphere, lore and exploration. It excels at them, unlike powergaming (boring and unbalanced), combat (clunky), C&C (too few, too limited). Ok, magic system is flexible enough to be interesting, but, from purely technical point of view, there is little of interest in Morrowind - the main points of interest are the setting and atmosphere you soak in as you explore and those are hard to quantify.

Also, keep you eyes peeled for hidden information in Morrowind.

You may very well find an obscure tomb of a powerful sorcerer, loaded with daedric loot by paying attention to a book found in a roadside bandit hideout where a summoning went wrong. Except that this information is not explicit and you have to connect the dots by yourself.

Click to expand...

Oh, trust me, I've explored likely every nook and cranny Morrowind has to offer in my countless playthroughs, I just never took the time to delve into the books or pay much attention to the backstory. Morrowind, to me, was an enormous untapped world to explore, the adventure of it is what grabbed me. That, and being nine years older make me want to rediscover the history the series has to offer.

Thanks for the link.

DraQ said:

It's the game where loading screens said that Uriel VII was Direct descendant of Tiber and that had this as it's central premise -

Spoiler

He wasn't and that's common knowldege

Click to expand...

if i didn't know anything about oblivion i'd say this was intentional, because both are "royalty", but i do. so i say they got something "right" by being completely wrong.

The Wizard said:

DraQ said:

It's the game where loading screens said that Uriel VII was Direct descendant of Tiber and that had this as it's central premise -

Spoiler

He wasn't and that's common knowldege

Click to expand...

if i didn't know anything about oblivion i'd say this was intentional, because both are "royalty", but i do. so i say they got something "right" by being completely wrong.

Click to expand...

I would attribute any and all post-oblivion explanations to fans, MK and possibly other devs/ex-devs strongly caring about TES lore actively forming scar tissue around numerous bleeding holes punched in it by Todd's and Pete's unnaturally spiky dicks (adorned with tiny, atrophied ballsacks, of course).