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KOTOR is awesome

Dark Matter

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Fuck what the Codex thinks. I've recently had the urge to replay KOTOR and I remember why I loved it so much. I've also realized that very few RPGs (if any) offer the kind of experience that KOTOR gives.

It had a relatively unique setting for an RPG, and is one of the only Star Wars games that doesn't take place in the same period as the movies. The planets are all well done too, each with its own history, politics, conflicts, secrets etc. Not only did they all have a distinct and memorable atmosphere, but there were multiple layers to each world as well. Taris, for example, had the urbanized upper city where only humans were allowed, the decrepit gang-infested slums of the lower city, and the diseased undercity. In Kashykk, you had the wookie villages in the treetops and the dark and dangerous surface. What I really loved about KOTOR 1 was experiencing that sense of adventure and discovery (something which I found lacking in Mass Effect) that characterizes some of the best sci-fi shows (like Firefly). You and your crew traveling in a small ship visiting various interesting planets where you deal with current political affairs and also discover ancient secrets. Aside from dealing with local affairs and interacting with and learning more about your crew, you also have a main plot where you're trying to decipher mysterious artifacts of an ancient alien race. The KOTOR series truly would make for an awesome TV show.

The whole adventurous sci-fi experience of KOTOR is something that no other RPG that I've played offers. If similar games exist, I would really like some recommendations. They don't have to be RPGs and great combat and C&C is not necessary, I just want cool sci-fi adventure type games.
 

Redlands

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Mar 23, 2008
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Assuming you do the logical thing and play KOTOR 2 (your post is ambiguous over whether you've done so), then I guess Mass Effect (which I haven't played). There's also a bunch of other Star Wars games for you to play.

If you want to try something a bit older there are some old Star Trek adventure games: I forget what they're called, but you can Google them for yourself.

Anachronox, maybe: again, I haven't played it.
 

Dark Matter

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Yes, I've played KOTOR 2. Most of what I've said applies for KOTOR2 as well.

I've played ME although I didn't find it to be satisfying in that regard.
 

PlanHex

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I rate this troll a 8.

+3 for subject matter that concerns the board.
+3 for the general description of the plot/locations of the game.
+1 for mention of Firefly
+1 for BBF (Blatant Bioware Fanboy)
 

Lesifoere

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Dark Matter said:
They don't have to be RPGs and great combat and C&C is not necessary, I just want cool sci-fi adventure type games.

...so try looking into adventure games? The Longest Journey? Dreamfall? Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals? Perry Rhodan? Culpa Innata? Beyond Good and Evil? Shit, the list of sci-fi-ish adventure games released in the last five years is probably longer than a list of RPGs of all flavors released in the last decade. I don't even understand why--the adventure genre as a whole isn't that commercially successful, but damn if it isn't prolific and, oddly enough, a lot of devs seem willing to go for weird settings and somewhat atypical stories/literate writing.
 

Andhaira

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I agree with the OP. KOTOR is one of my favorite crpg's of all time. :)
 
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Dark Matter said:
What I really loved about KOTOR 1 was experiencing that sense of adventure and discovery (something which I found lacking in Mass Effect) that characterizes some of the best sci-fi shows (like Firefly).

Huh...this was one of the things that really bothered me about KOTOR. There wasn't much of a sense of adventure or discovery, mostly due to all the handholding. To me, you need some unknown dangers to really foster that spirit of adventure. There needs to be some "danger". KOTOR felt more like taking a guided tour, where you would always be okay and nothing would ever be too much for you. That's not adventure. I wanted something like Baldur's Gate, Wizardry, Realms of Arkania, or such where poking around in certain places could lay some serious hurt on you; that there would be some intensity. You felt like you were really striking out on your own. Consequences and danger are necessary for that adventure.

The moment that really epitomized KOTOR for me was the situation with the Krayt Dragon. They forced you to use the mines, you could at least try fighting it. Not only was this disappointing because dragon fights were seriously fun in BG2, but because you just felt so railroaded. After this, I just stopped playing, being so frustrated with all the illusory choices/handholding, among other things, and didn't pick it back up for almost a year and a half when I was bored and just wanted to see how things ended.
 

JrK

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And in the mean time the writing goes from cliche to cliche. To make matters worse the cliches felt kiddy to me throughout, as if it was made by and for 14 year olds. It felt as if I was playing another super mario on a console. Wasn't this game released on the XBOX as well? It would explain my pain.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
I very much like KOTOR too. Its sequel is just as good, apart from the ending.

Fuck the Codexers, they hate anything that isn't rogue-like, 2d turn-based, or made by Troika.
 

Hory

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Matt7895 said:
Fuck the Codexers, they hate anything that isn't rogue-like, 2d turn-based, or made by Troika.
No, I dislike KotOR because it has a lot of crappy gameplay (several, repetitive, unchallenging combat encounters).
 

ghostdog

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I also enjoyed KOTOR :oops:

As for sci-fi games you can also try star control 2 (ur-quan masters). Immortals of Terra could also interest you.
 

Kraszu

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Major_Boobage said:
Well i have always said that i loved KOTOR 1. It is a great game and is well polished instead of the POS KOTOR2.

How is the game with ridiculously easy combat polished? Other then rushed ending I don't see what differs KOTOR and KOTOR2 in polish.
 
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Kraszu said:
Major_Boobage said:
Well i have always said that i loved KOTOR 1. It is a great game and is well polished instead of the POS KOTOR2.

How is the game with ridiculously easy combat polished? Other then rushed ending I don't see what differs KOTOR and KOTOR2 in polish.
Just the overall 'feel' of the game, KOTOR seems 'complete' wheras KOTOR2 feels like it's missing something. Having said that 2 is obviously the superior, I'll take a low-budget arthouse film over a Hollywood production moneymaker anyday.
 

Dark Matter

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Edward_R_Murrow said:
Dark Matter said:
What I really loved about KOTOR 1 was experiencing that sense of adventure and discovery (something which I found lacking in Mass Effect) that characterizes some of the best sci-fi shows (like Firefly).

Huh...this was one of the things that really bothered me about KOTOR. There wasn't much of a sense of adventure or discovery, mostly due to all the handholding. To me, you need some unknown dangers to really foster that spirit of adventure. There needs to be some "danger". KOTOR felt more like taking a guided tour, where you would always be okay and nothing would ever be too much for you. That's not adventure. I wanted something like Baldur's Gate, Wizardry, Realms of Arkania, or such where poking around in certain places could lay some serious hurt on you; that there would be some intensity. You felt like you were really striking out on your own. Consequences and danger are necessary for that adventure.

The moment that really epitomized KOTOR for me was the situation with the Krayt Dragon. They forced you to use the mines, you could at least try fighting it. Not only was this disappointing because dragon fights were seriously fun in BG2, but because you just felt so railroaded. After this, I just stopped playing, being so frustrated with all the illusory choices/handholding, among other things, and didn't pick it back up for almost a year and a half when I was bored and just wanted to see how things ended.
When I say adventure and discovery, I'm not really referring to challenging and non-linear gameplay. Again, I think the comparison with a sci-fi adventure show works best. In all of these shows, you know that at the end of the episode, all the main characters are still going to be alive and well (there are exceptions occasionally which is the case with the KOTOR series as well like with Bastila). And they're obviously linear durr. But does that stop them from having that sense of adventure and discovery? Hell no.
 

Wyrmlord

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Feb 3, 2008
Messages
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There is just not as much adventure and discovery in tiny hubs that take a minute to walk around fully.

I mean, in the game you come out to the open Tattooine desert, and even that is remarkably small and confined.
 

Dark Matter

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Wyrmlord said:
There is just not as much adventure and discovery in tiny hubs that take a minute to walk around fully.

I mean, in the game you come out to the open Tattooine desert, and even that is remarkably small and confined.
Why is a huge world necessary to have adventure and discovery? Adventure comes from having many interesting planets to explore each with its own distinct identity. Disocvery comes from having plenty of unique interesting encounters. KOTOR has all that and executes it extremely well.

Again, comparing it to sci-fi shows will give you a good idea of what I mean.
 

Dark Matter

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Lesifoere said:
Dark Matter said:
They don't have to be RPGs and great combat and C&C is not necessary, I just want cool sci-fi adventure type games.

...so try looking into adventure games? The Longest Journey? Dreamfall? Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals? Perry Rhodan? Culpa Innata? Beyond Good and Evil? Shit, the list of sci-fi-ish adventure games released in the last five years is probably longer than a list of RPGs of all flavors released in the last decade. I don't even understand why--the adventure genre as a whole isn't that commercially successful, but damn if it isn't prolific and, oddly enough, a lot of devs seem willing to go for weird settings and somewhat atypical stories/literate writing.
I've played TLJ. Fantastic game. Dreamfall was good too but I thought it lacked a certain charm that TLJ had. I felt like there was way too much going on and most of it is left unresolved.

Never played any of the other games, but will look into them.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Star Trek Judgment Rites was pretty good.
 

bat_boro

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Nov 22, 2006
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Dark Matter said:
I think the comparison with a sci-fi adventure show works best. In all of these shows, you know that at the end of the episode, all the main characters are still going to be alive and well (there are exceptions occasionally which is the case with the KOTOR series as well like with Bastila).

You keep comparing KOTOR with Firefly, but that really wasn't the case in Firefly (and even more so in Serenity), where at the end of the movie all the main characters wasn't alive and well. Battlestar Galactica also disagrees with you on that matter.

Anyway, KOTOR wasn't really bad - I really loved the game back then, but there are some fundamentals flaws (the cosmetic choices, which make each playthrough feel pretty much the same, the inconsistent writting, the somehow chiche story, etc) that a person just couldn't ignore. Compared with the above shows that sense of adventure and discovery you're talking about is somehow pale in comparison.
 

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