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All you people that said MotB is good can go fuck yourselves

Thread starter Mantiis
Start date Oct 4, 2008

Mantiis

Cipher

Oct 4, 2008

#1

Contains spoilers:

Seriously what the fuck is up with that god damned ending? The whole time i'm saying i'm going to tear that fucking wall down and then I get to the fucking wall and I can only go along with what Kelemvor sez to me? Wtf? I can't shove an axe into his head and then start to tear down the wall? WHY THE FUCK NOT?! I have been saying I was going to do it the whole fucking game!

I had powows with Kaelyn regarding tearing that fucking thing down and then after i defeat that tosspot Akachi my options are merging with that fuck and serving Kelemvor OR letting Akachi's essence survive but then I just walk away? FUCK YOU, FUCK EVERYONE THAT SAID THIS WAS A FUCKING GOOD GAME. The whole thing is ruined but that god damned ending (and also what was up with Kaelyn's ending?).

FUCK YOU ALL.

God fucking dammit i was having fun and was enjoying it up until that fucking awful shit fuck of an ending. Its fucking worse than KotoR2.

*sigh*

Maybe I should go play torment....

Lesifoere

Liturgist

Oct 4, 2008

#2

Haha. Sorry, just--I can see why you're frustrated, but it's funny.

Come on, did you expect to kill a god? I actually liked the fact that you couldn't bitchslap Kelemvor and tear down the wall, because it'd have been silly for a mortal to be able to do so in a god's domain without divine assistance. The ending is bittersweet; the hero can't always get everything he wants, solve every single problem and so on.

You know, at the end of Torment, it's not like TNO gets to stop the Blood War or walk away scot-free, either.

MetalCraze

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#3

In other words - oh noez - MotB is shit because a child of the farmer can't bring the god down (for once)

Gragt

Arcane

Patron

Oct 4, 2008

#4

What did you expect? Kill the princess and save the dragon? The game ends with a sense of closing maybe not the one you were expecting but it made sense, Lesifoere covered it a bit. Besides it's not as if your character had no influence on the events of the game, his exemple might spark a new crusade.

Mantiis

Cipher

Oct 4, 2008

#5

Let me see if I can make this clear:

The whole game is suggesting that I can destroy the wall, that that is a way (one of many perhaps?) to get out of the curse. There are dialogue trees and scenes that go on for ages talking about doing so. You have generals and men that are powerful - these alliances were created in the hope that you could (combined) tear the thing down. It's a central premise of the whole damn game!

Why on earth would you have such a strong theme going through the game suggesting you could do something when you have no intention of letting the player do that? Its got nothing to do with whether a farm boy can kill a god - its got to do with decent game design. I can't believe i am the only one frustrated about this.

Lesifoere

Liturgist

Oct 4, 2008

#6

I dunno, I find the building up of a theme/plan throughout the entire plot that leads to the plan in question actually having no chance of success pretty refreshing. Of course, it's bound to make some people cheated and I can assure you that you aren't alone (hi Merilinda, if I spell her name right), but for me it has enough closure to work. Plus, Kelemvor's not made out to be some cackling villain--he's actually not happy with the Wall of the Faithless, but he's forced into his role much like any other god.

Hümmelgümpf

Arbiter

Oct 4, 2008

#7

Mantiis said:
The whole time i'm saying i'm going to tear that fucking wall down and then I get to the fucking wall and I can only go along with what Kelemvor sez to me? Wtf? I can't shove an axe into his head and then start to tear down the wall? WHY THE FUCK NOT?!

Because Kelemvor is level 50 and can kick your butt out of his domain with a mere thought.

aron searle

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#8

I haven't played this.

Is it that you can't or that you are not given the option to try?

made

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#9

The ending was indeed disappointing. Not so much because we were unable to kill a God or actually do anything about the wall, but because the whole topic was suddenly dropped at the end without any resolution at all. It's just "ok I got my soul back, nvm the wall thing". Then there's Kaelyn, who despite her vows to tear down the wall, doesn't raise a finger or even say anything in the final confrontation and just walks away to start yet another crusade.

After all the buildup, I'd have expected a more satisfying conclusion. If the wall cannot be destroyed, at least let me die trying if I so choose.

aron searle said:
I haven't played this.

Is it that you can't or that you are not given the option to try?

The latter. That's the whole problem.

Gragt

Arcane

Patron

Oct 4, 2008

#10

I was also surprised when I discovered I really could not do it, I guess most games conditionned me to expect that every objective will be fulfilled. But it made sense, Kelemvor explained why and even if my character decided to not hear him, there was no other way: he is the master in his own domain. Besides even if it failed in the destruction of the Wall, it sent a clear message across the Planes.

Kelemvor was a great character, not much screen time though you discover he was doing the narration for the most part of the time, but his appearance left its mark. He is actually sympathetic to your cause but once more as a god he must obey the rules and that's why he can't let you destroy the Wall and you're not powerful enough to challenge him even with an army at your back. He does however do the only thing in his power: get your soul back and maybe bring peace to Akachi, something he longed to do for a long time but was forbidden to. This game has a very strong existential theme and the ending did not disapoint. It certainly isn't the standard fantasy fare but why care?

Edit: well yeah, why not include an option like in Torment where you can choose to challenge some being such as Lothar and be destroyed in the process. At least you have the choice even if I imagine most people would load their game after that.

As deciding to tear down the wall and the change of plan, again you do not have much choice. Plus Kelemvor reminds you that your soul and the spirit-eater curse is what brought you there in the first place and that's why he allows you to get your soul back because it is the just thing to do even if he can't intervene in the process but he won't allow you to destroy the Wall and you are in no condition to challenge him.... yet.

Not giving a complete closure also works in a story-telling way: the character accomplished his quest but is still out there and might return one day. All is not done yet.

MetalCraze

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#11

People just got used to generic fantasy endings too much.

Hory

Erudite

Oct 4, 2008

#12

The fact that you hate the ending so much proves that it was good.
It's one of the few games that made me actively want to accomplish the character's quest.
But, yeah, you should have been allowed to fight Kelemvor (even if you'd only get pwned).

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated

Oct 4, 2008

#13

The fact that you hate the ending so much proves that it was good.

Lesifoere

Liturgist

Oct 4, 2008

#14

made said:
If the wall cannot be destroyed, at least let me die trying if I so choose.

Ah, that I can agree with. It'd still piss off people who expect to succeed at everything their PC puts their hand to, but it'd offer its own brand of satisfaction.

Texas Red

Whiner

Oct 4, 2008

#15

Mantiis, you sound like a spoiled brat. The ending was satisfying if only because it was actually epic, encompassed your choices and gave you the resulting consequences. You'd probably fit with those idiots on Bioware who share your sentiment on the ending; they also can't see the difference between MotB and something like NWN 1 OC.

Warden

Arbiter

Oct 4, 2008

#16

But I had Zoab the solar, Ser'ryu the blue dragon and the very powerful demilich Rammaq on my side. And an epic level 30 Kaelyn, Safiya and Gann.

Kelemvor can banish mortals with his thought - but he can't banish all at once (he has a cd). Numbers make power.

You're not the only one who was disappointed by the inability to at least try.

Edit:
Kelemvor can't destroy my PC with his mere thought.

PC: :: If I am such a monster, then destroy me, god of the dead. Or is that beyond your power? ::
Kelemvor: To destroy an empty thing? Yes, that is beyond the power of any god... else the spirit-eater would have been struck down at its birth.

Then.. One of Many, Okku and Rammaq aren't living creatures.

(Power of a greater deity: "Life and Death: Greater deities can kill any living mortal creature with but a thought.")

Mantiis

Cipher

Oct 4, 2008

#17

All the idiots in this thread that are saying 'QQ more Bioware baby' reread my second post and read the below:

made said:
The ending was indeed disappointing. Not so much because we were unable to kill a God or actually do anything about the wall, but because the whole topic was suddenly dropped at the end without any resolution at all. It's just "ok I got my soul back, nvm the wall thing". Then there's Kaelyn, who despite her vows to tear down the wall, doesn't raise a finger or even say anything in the final confrontation and just walks away to start yet another crusade.

The fucking game has a major plot thread dealing with destroying the wall. I can't make it any clearer - the whole thing is building up to it and there is nothing! No options, no dialogue and more importantly NO GOD DAMNED RESOLUTION.

Seboss

Liturgist

Oct 4, 2008

#18

Mantiis said:
Why on earth would you have such a strong theme going through the game suggesting you could do something when you have no intention of letting the player do that? Its got nothing to do with whether a farm boy can kill a god - its got to do with decent game design. I can't believe i am the only one frustrated about this.

I dunno. I was a bit disheartened by the bittersweet endings. I even fumbled in the editor to make sure I did not let the "good" ending slip away (STALKER anyone?).
But in retrospect it makes pretty good sense. I never believed Kelemvor could be struck down (I was already amazed that the hunger could consume a dead god) and I always considered Kaelyn and her alliance as a bunch of idealistic fanatics whom crusade was bound to fail miserably (despite my character supported it wholeheartedly).

Warden said:
You're not the only one who was disappointed by the inability to at least try.

And get crushed like a bunch of roaches in a scripted battle? Well maybe, but I think you would have been even more disappointed.

MetalCraze

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#19

It just proves that you were playing the game with your ass. IIRC there was quite a number of dialogues about the wall with Kelemvor which was the topic and resolution.

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated

Oct 4, 2008

#20

I'm gonna do a dramatic reading of this thread when it's done.

bezimek

Scholar

Oct 4, 2008

#21

The fact that you hate the ending so much proves that it was good.

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal

Oct 4, 2008

#22

To me, saying Kelemvor that he doesn't bring down the Wall because he is afraid is better than any other ending to the story MotB.

Hümmelgümpf

Arbiter

Oct 4, 2008

#23

Mantiis said:
The fucking game has a major plot thread dealing with destroying the wall. I can't make it any clearer - the whole thing is building up to it and there is nothing! No options, no dialogue and more importantly NO GOD DAMNED RESOLUTION.

The fucking plot of The Longest Journey leads me to believe that April is da chozen 1, but near the end the game shows me a finger and says that some other guy is the 1. WTF, this Ragnar dude can't write at all!

racofer

Thread Incliner

Oct 4, 2008

#24

It's the camera that fooled everyone into thinking it is a good game.

Raapys

Arcane

Oct 4, 2008

#25

Agreed, they should at least have given the player the option to die trying, or perhaps even given him the opportunity to gather an even stronger army, one that actually stood a chance.

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