TOTSC vs (HOW + TOTLM)

Andhaira · Mar 27, 2008

Which was the better expansion?

While its arguable that tales of the sword coast had one of the best dungeons ever, with a very cool endboss, heart of winter introduced higher rezo. (if I recall correctly BG2 was already out by this time; however how's higher rezo allowed the entire IWD game to be played in high rezo. Bio never got aroudn to doing this for bg1 which is sad)

So TOTS had better content, but HOW improved the entire IWD game exponentially. (800X600 is the best way to play IE games IMO)

Its a tough decision to be sure!

Gragt · Mar 27, 2008

Technical improvements aside, I'm more in favour of HoW + ToLM, because I simply liked the storyline (Ron Perlman as the dragon transvestite is a performance for the ages) with the different areas plus you get new spells and the like.

TotSC added mostly new areas, with one very nice dungeon but that was about it.

I might be biased by the fact I prefer IWD to BG but I do not dislike BG by any means.

Jasede · Mar 28, 2008

Durlag's Tower is the best dungeon ever made. I can not name a better one. It's better than Watcher's Keep. It's better than the Lufia Ancient Cave. It's great and makes TotSC stand out.

Lesifoere · Mar 28, 2008

Jasede said:
Durlag's Tower is the best dungeon ever made. I can not name a better one. It's better than Watcher's Keep.

I've never bothered playing ToSC (since by its release, I'd completed BG once already and felt absolutely no desire to go through the mind-numbing slog that's BG1 again), but considering that I feel Watcher's Keep should go die in a fire, that's not exactly a sterling commendation.

DemonKing · Mar 28, 2008

Apart form Watcher's Keep the rest of the content in TOTSC was woefully poor.

I found HOW's design to also be a little lacking but on the other hand I felt TOTLM more than made up for it.

Overall I'd give the IWD stuff a slight edge, if only because of the technical improvements they lend the base game.

Jasede · Mar 28, 2008

Lesifore, Durlag's Tower is leaps above everything in BG 1 and 2. I would not know about ToB because I have not played it (much).

I only played the first few levels of Watcher's Keep and found myself incredibly bored, thinking "Didn't these guy's make Durlag's Tower? How could they do this to the game!?".

Of course if you simply don't like dungeon crawling - nevermind the dungeon has deadly traps, incredibly fun encounters, fiendish puzzles, tricks and illusions and a fantastic story behind it that is interwoven with the whole experience - then do not bother.

Wilco · Mar 28, 2008

DemonKing said:
Apart form Watcher's Keep the rest of the content in TOTSC was woefully poor.

I found HOW's design to also be a little lacking but on the other hand I felt TOTLM more than made up for it.

Overall I'd give the IWD stuff a slight edge, if only because of the technical improvements they lend the base game.

TOTSC was much more difficult than HOW/TOTLM combined, HOW was good but from what I remember TOTLM sort of ruined it for me, it was simply too easy (but it was downloaded content, I expected too much).

I remember Durlag's tower was a challenge, and it really was the best dungeon in any game I've played so far.

Lesifoere said:
I've never bothered playing ToSC (since by its release, I'd completed BG once already and felt absolutely no desire to go through the mind-numbing slog that's BG1 again), but considering that I feel Watcher's Keep should go die in a fire, that's not exactly a sterling commendation.

BG1 is a great open-ended game, far, far better that piece of shit waste of money Oblivion. I felt BG2 lost on the first games' open-ended principal, so I hold BG1 in higher regard. The story certainly isn't the greatest in the first, but it's really more a backdrop to the hundreds of quests and free-roam nature of the game.

Andhaira · Mar 28, 2008

Also, the vast area's of emptiness in BG reflect the vast emptiness the pc feels inside upon gorions death.

Gragt · Mar 28, 2008

Especially since it was a short time to get emotionally attached to him.

Andhaira · Mar 28, 2008

Nay! You knew him since birth! (check your biography)

Lesifoere · Mar 28, 2008

Wilco said:
BG1 is a great open-ended game, far, far better that piece of shit waste of money Oblivion. I felt BG2 lost on the first games' open-ended principal, so I hold BG1 in higher regard. The story certainly isn't the greatest in the first, but it's really more a backdrop to the hundreds of quests and free-roam nature of the game.

Why compare it to Oblivion when exactly no one calls for it, and around these parts saying something is better than Oblivion says nothing at all? The mind boggles. At any rate, no, I thought the empty areas in BG1 were shit. Boring shit with the occasional handful of gibberlings/xvarts. If you're lucky, you'll find one single NPC in a whole grassy area--which your characters explore at the speed of a snail--who doesn't have much to do except spout off a few random lines. Give me BG2 any time. Hell, give me IWD: at least combat in IWD is actually fun.

mjorkerina · Mar 28, 2008

Yeah saying BG1 is better than Oblivion is like saying shit taste better than acidic vomit. Sorry but no to both.

Gragt · Mar 28, 2008

Andhaira said:
Nay! You knew him since birth! (check your biography)

I meant as the player, not the character. The first I played BG and met Gorion I thought: "Ok, this guy is my (foster) father, I wonder how this will work out, what kind of person he is.".

And not even 10 minutes later he dies.

Andhaira · Mar 28, 2008

Well honestly speaking that was pretty much a given. The way it was set up, when he said to you "...if something happens goto the FAI and hook up with jaheira and all.."

I wonder if someone made a hack where gorion actually survives? :lol:

Even better: Someone makes a hack using Bg2 and tutu; a TRUE high level gorion with level 7+ spells. :D

One stoneskin plus mirror image plus contingency + sequencer = dead sarevok.

Makes you wonder, gorion was supposed to be this uber mage. Yet he didn't even have stoneskin nor mirror image up.

I wish they could have 'cheated'and added spells only npoc's could use.

Lastly, can you ever attack elminster and kill him? I know you can kill drizzt...

Gragt · Mar 28, 2008

Yeah, if only Gorion was using the BG2 engine...

Anyway it's usualy a flaw of many games, to try to build up feelings between your character and another one simply by stating they know each other for years. Maybe it works for other people but I need a bit more than a simple: "You know each other for years" to feel something positive for that character. It's a lot easier to conjure up a negative feeling with only one line though, whatever your relationship is supposed to be.

aries202 · Mar 28, 2008

I agree and concur with most of the other posters.
How and Totl are by far the better expansion(s) for a game, especially since in Trials of the Luremaster, you would get actually riddles that were mentally challenging tryiing to solve.

Drurøag's Tower is also better than Watcher's Keep, I find. I'm currently playing (or ought to be playing TOB), but Watcher's Keep to me is just so broing and tedius to go thorugh so it feels like a chore, so I haven't played ToB for a while now.

The storyline in both HoW and TotL were defintely much better than the storyline in TotSC, although I like dthe store line in that, too, but not as much as in say Trials of the Luremaster.

TOTSC vs (HOW + TOTLM)

Andhaira

Arcane

Gragt

Arcane

Jasede

Arcane

Lesifoere

Liturgist

DemonKing

Arcane

Jasede

Arcane

Wilco

Self-Ejected

Andhaira

Arcane

Gragt

Arcane

Andhaira

Arcane

Lesifoere

Liturgist

mjorkerina

Scholar

Gragt

Arcane

Andhaira

Arcane

Gragt

Arcane

aries202

Erudite