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Bioware's no-homosexuality rule in RPGs
- Thread starter PennyAnte
- Start date
ElastiZombie
Liturgist
suibhne said:
According to the official star wars site, they are hermaphrodites.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/species/hutt/?id=eu
Which leads me to say: ew...
And it brings up another issue: Lack of hermaphroditic romance options in RPGs! :D
Spazmo
Erudite
Nonsense! Half of RPGs today are either so bad, short or disappointing that buying them is essentially fucking yourself.
Otaku_Hanzo
Erudite
suibhne said:
There is another Hutt there. And, yes, it does look rather feminine. As for them being Herms, that's how they are described in the pen and paper RPG, which is why the effeminite Hutt in Ep. 1 kind of through me for a moment. But then who's to say that they can't get more in touch with their feminite side?
Spazmo
Erudite
I think Hutts only have two sides: food in and food out.
Fez
Erudite
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
- Messages
- 7,954
Devil's advocate = FUN! :D
Thanks for going straight to the strawman and calling me a moron, I expected no less of the plebs. It's like fishing with magic bait, it never fails to reel in a good catch.
I think sex and probably romance in games should just be avoided most of the time, it often doesn't work unless they go for the comedy angle. The romances are usually picked apart when it comes to complaints, and sex is just a bad idea as it will just make everyone consider it interactive porn and will probably be embarrassing to anyone with a partner or family present if they make it realistic and if they don't it'll just look stupid and pointless, like the black screen and moaning noises in Bloodlines (though I'd say the Gothic 2 sex/dry humping scene was ten times worse). I don't think it adds much to a game. I wouldn't of missed the romance being cut from KOTOR, in BG2 I'd at least not have to worry about the party of harlots hitting on the PC every minute and interrupting the flow of the game to whine about their love life while we are stuck in a monster infested hell hole and in Gothic 2 I'd not have been treated to something that shocked me with just how poor it was.
Oh and I really don't think we need to demand more games with black lesbian cripples to even out some imaginary quota somewhere. There are no great masses complaining about it how hard done by they are so it seems things are fine. The developers make the game they want and envisage, I doubt any are saying "Up yours cripples! We are deliberately not going to include a crippled, wheelchair bound Jedi knight/wizard/cyberhacker PC just to piss you off because we hate you!". To borrow what was said earlier, the thought might not have entered their head at all.
Though of course Otaku got it right, it is all due to the strength of the gravitational pull of the sun.
Thanks for going straight to the strawman and calling me a moron, I expected no less of the plebs. It's like fishing with magic bait, it never fails to reel in a good catch.
I think sex and probably romance in games should just be avoided most of the time, it often doesn't work unless they go for the comedy angle. The romances are usually picked apart when it comes to complaints, and sex is just a bad idea as it will just make everyone consider it interactive porn and will probably be embarrassing to anyone with a partner or family present if they make it realistic and if they don't it'll just look stupid and pointless, like the black screen and moaning noises in Bloodlines (though I'd say the Gothic 2 sex/dry humping scene was ten times worse). I don't think it adds much to a game. I wouldn't of missed the romance being cut from KOTOR, in BG2 I'd at least not have to worry about the party of harlots hitting on the PC every minute and interrupting the flow of the game to whine about their love life while we are stuck in a monster infested hell hole and in Gothic 2 I'd not have been treated to something that shocked me with just how poor it was.
Oh and I really don't think we need to demand more games with black lesbian cripples to even out some imaginary quota somewhere. There are no great masses complaining about it how hard done by they are so it seems things are fine. The developers make the game they want and envisage, I doubt any are saying "Up yours cripples! We are deliberately not going to include a crippled, wheelchair bound Jedi knight/wizard/cyberhacker PC just to piss you off because we hate you!". To borrow what was said earlier, the thought might not have entered their head at all.
Though of course Otaku got it right, it is all due to the strength of the gravitational pull of the sun.
PennyAnte
Liturgist
Ask for a little player freedom, get shown several shiny new chains.
elkston
Novice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2004
- Messages
- 75
Ap_Jolly said:
I hope you realize that these are two totally different levels of "tolerances".
Being inclusive about different skin colors is totally different from being inclusive about homosexuality.
I'm a black CRPGS player. I like being able to play black hero , but it doesn't bother me a great deal if I can't. Playing a fun and engrossing game is more important to me. What I DON"T like is having "gay" pushed upon me and I'm supposed to pretend that I'm okay with it when I am not. Lets face it -- most men ARE heterosexual and its going to stay that way.
Personally, I think games should stay of out the romance and sexuality business. Seriously -- don't ask, don't tell. There are plenty of others areas they can focus on. If anything, perhaps imply relationships or use inuendo. Leave the rest up to the player's imagination.
I'm sure any gay players would feel the same way. Just make the game neutral on that point. If you're kick ass in all other aspects, no-one is going to care.
elkston
Novice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2004
- Messages
- 75
AlanC9 said:
Its just that "gay", especially when we're talking about guys, is a whole different ballgame.
Somebody of a different skin color *may* have a different cultural background (or may not) from you. But he's still a guy who likes women. He's somebody you can relate to. You can "hang" with this guy a bit more comfortably than somebody you know is gay. Cause the fact that he is gay will just be sticking in your mind and you just can't shake the fact that he likes men. That's just a fundamental "wierd" thing that goes waaay beyond accepting differences in skin color.
OK. I was just mouthing off there. I don't know of any games that force you to play a gay person.
But I was just annoyed because it seems often when somebody (in most cases a white male) wants to challenge the "PC"-ness of something, they just throw black and gays all together as if its the same thing. LIke if you accept one, you have to accpet the other.
AlanC9
Liturgist
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2003
- Messages
- 505
elkston said:
If you say so. For me, finding out a guy's gay is like finding out he's a vegetarian -- it's of no interest unless I'm planning a dinner party. It's more important whether a woman's a lesbian because that takes her off my target list, of course.
True, probably because they see having a problem with either as being equally reprehensible. But they are two very different sources of unease.
Mendoza
Liturgist
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2004
- Messages
- 277
elkston said:
Really? I suspect that a couple of hundred years ago a lot of white men would have said a similar thing about being uncomfortable around black people. I have a gay housemate and I don't find him any harder to relate to or get on with than any of my other housemates.
I suspect though that the main reason for the lack of gay romances is purely due to the amount of effort required to cater to a (presumably, I don't have any figures) relatively small percentage of the market. Comparatively, adding additional skins/skin colours requires less work, and caters to (again presumably) a much greater percentage of the market.
DarkSign
Erudite
I see where our African-American/Black/Negro/Person of Color friend is going with his statement that skin color is a diferent type of minority than sexual proclivity, but you've just set the civil rights movement back, buddy.
Just because you can SEE skin color and homosexuality cant be "proven" that doesnt change the fact that its a minority.
And Ill tell you what...lets do an experiment:
a) drop a white person in the middle of Harlem at midnight
b) drop a straight guy in a gay club in New Orleans
one will come out "fabulously dressed" and the other will be lucky to get out with his life.
While the black establishment in America would love to wallow in self-pity for thousands of years, it doesnt allow you to play "we're a TRUER minority than you are."
That all being said, I do think that it is about the comfort level of the customer base...and also about limited creation time. I would my transexual nazi eskimo brother feel left out if they didnt have a detailed storyline in every game for him/her ?
Just because you can SEE skin color and homosexuality cant be "proven" that doesnt change the fact that its a minority.
And Ill tell you what...lets do an experiment:
a) drop a white person in the middle of Harlem at midnight
b) drop a straight guy in a gay club in New Orleans
one will come out "fabulously dressed" and the other will be lucky to get out with his life.
While the black establishment in America would love to wallow in self-pity for thousands of years, it doesnt allow you to play "we're a TRUER minority than you are."
That all being said, I do think that it is about the comfort level of the customer base...and also about limited creation time. I would my transexual nazi eskimo brother feel left out if they didnt have a detailed storyline in every game for him/her ?
MarFish
Liturgist
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Messages
- 266
I felt the urge to unearth this topic since Llama God has prophetic powers.
Apparently there are several possible combinations for homosexual romances in Jade Empire in addition to the standard romances and even some suggestive cutscenes.
Male Male, Female Female, Male Female Female have been listed.
Probably another reason for that M rating.
Looks like the suggested non-homosexuality rule were more restrictions of the Starwars and D&D licenses than anything else.
Apparently there are several possible combinations for homosexual romances in Jade Empire in addition to the standard romances and even some suggestive cutscenes.
Male Male, Female Female, Male Female Female have been listed.
Probably another reason for that M rating.
Looks like the suggested non-homosexuality rule were more restrictions of the Starwars and D&D licenses than anything else.
Sol Invictus
Erudite
Man, Homosexuality just doesn't fly with ancient China, or Japan for that matter. MFF does, though. I hope that they're "suggestive" romances of the Planescape Torment variety and not the 'in your face, I just made you a baby!' variety of Baldur's Gate 2, though.
Spazmo
Erudite
I want the next BioWare RPG to allow me to produce a child with a same sex partner (BY MAGIC) and then sexually abuse that child. It's fucking roleplaying, my character is a child molester.
Sol Invictus
Erudite
There's definitely no homerotic themes (except MFF) from Ancient China. It doesn't fit the setting.
Greatatlantic
Erudite
Check out this write up on Slate, featuring Troika's number 2.
http://www.slate.com/id/2098406
On another note, I suspect several FF characters have certain "issues" in this regard.
http://www.slate.com/id/2098406
On another note, I suspect several FF characters have certain "issues" in this regard.
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