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Let's play ToEE!

Think fast

  • Earthshaker

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Firestarter

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3

Keldorn

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
867
Crispy said:
Keldorn said:
The dull, dry, generic blandness of ToEE is quite unbearable.

As opposed to your fresh, interesting, unique contribution to an otherwise excellent Let's Play thread. :roll:

You step into a house, and at the entrance is yet ANOTHER predictable dialogue exchange with an NPC so shallow and elementary, that you have zero motivation to get involved in their tribulations.

If by the first ten minutes of playing ToEE you expected anything other than a straight conversion from the classic AD&D module (which was always meant to be nothing more than a dungeon-crawler, as all AD&D modules were anyway) then you are a moron.

The motivation was to gain some much-needed experience to prepare you for the tough battles ahead. Duh.

That annoying biatch home-maker you might choose to marry, because she's one of the best Fighters in the game, with her mighty meat cleaver and all... purely lame....

Because she's one of the best fighters in the game? WTF? Try using your imagination a little bit and leave the bitch at home like Pussycat did. Unless you brought her along just for the "lulz" then I accuse you of being a card-carrying member of the International Munchkin Republic.

...what a truly SHITTY CRPG. Unrefined, corners cut, bland, boring, yeeuck.

What a TRULY SHITTY mind you must have. ToEE was brilliant in many ways, but simply unfinished. Give Troika another six months to a year with this thing and it would have been much more polished. Sure, that's no excuse and yes, it was unrefined, but that doesn't make it "TRULY SHITTY". Boring? Fuck no.

The text should be done differently - it's sooooo regimented in appearance. And the music sucks.

Yeah, I know. And how about that stupid-assed radial menu? I mean it's so fucking ugly! And the buildings in the game. OMFG! And the character models, and the monstarz!1! Grow up.

I used to like ToEE because of it's combat. But combat implementation aside, it is truly one of the WORST, must uninspiring and generic high-fantasy CRPGs ***EVAHR***.

You used to like it because of it is combat? WTF does that mean? But knuckle-dragging mouth-breather grammar aside, I think you secretly think ToEE is the BEST, most inspired yet UNFINISHED CRPGs ***EVAHR***. I'm sorry the Balor fucked your scorched skull so many times in a row. Maybe if you knew what you were doing?

King of assumptions you are.

I finished ToEE several years ago. I really liked it. 8.5/10 . I tried to play it again last week, and realized what I ignored initially : it's a truly bland, generic, shoddy, lame and SHITTY OC aside from the combat. If a deep, well-crafted mod was done for the engine, it would realize it's true potential.

My opinion stands.

Unrefuted.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
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Strap Yourselves In
Keldorn said:
I really liked it. 8.5/10 . I tried to play it again last week, and realized what I ignored initially

You should write game reviews professionally. Seriously, how do you go from "8.5/10" to "TRULY SHITTY" after a single replay attempt? Maybe you were still on the rock back then?

Whatever. I don't want to hijack Pussycat's thread anymore than this so I'll just conclude that you're, to put it mildly, slightly confused.
 

Keldorn

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
867
If all you do is focus in on the great isometric view and ideal combat, then it's a very good game.

If you play through it again, looking at the OTHER elements, then you see the truth : it's a brutally bland, unfinished and generic LAME game.


That's the lucid and boldly honest, UNCONFUSED, reality of the situation.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Keldorn said:
I finished ToEE several years ago. I really liked it. 8.5/10 . I tried to play it again last week, and realized what I ignored initially : it's a truly bland, generic, shoddy, lame and SHITTY OC aside from the combat. If a deep, well-crafted mod was done for the engine, it would realize it's true potential.

Funny how quickly your opinion changed when the chance to troll some people or grandstand presented itself.

Anyways, RPG question aside, if you think of the game as a squad-based turn-based strategy game, does it still pass muster?
 

Keldorn

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
867
It doesn't matter if you falsely conclude that my revamped opinion on ToEE is solely based on a desire for shock value. What matters, is if 1000 Codexians play it, and honestly appraise the game BEYOND the already acknowledged few great elements : the engine, the combat and the smooth iso-view. Once they look beyond the cherished elements, they (or many) will likely concur that the game is utterly CRAPOLA, and that a deep, serious, difficult mod, with tremendously developed NPCs, dialogue and story, would do for ToEE what Tortured Hearts (and other great mods) did for NWN : help it realize it's true potential.
 

Keldorn

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
867
And that's why so many 'round here (and there) were displaying chronic drool symptoms over the announced KotB mod. The OC was basically a shoddy scam with lame NPCs, shallow dialogue and a totally generic backdrop.


Just listen to that enticing music ! It SOOOooooo makes you want to visit the wainwright, and explore the OH-SO exciting and unpredictable town of Hommlett.
 

Pussycat669

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
667
Location
In a fine suit
Question about crafting magic weapons and armor: how exactly do you add effects to weapons like holy or fire damage? I can only guess that you need specific spells but I couldn't find anything about it even after skipping through the manual.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Jan 4, 2005
Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I don't remember since I haven't played this in half a decade, but in PnP, you need the crafter to have the Craft Magic Arms/Armor feat and the Fireball spell to add fire damage.

Hope this helps! And yes, specific spells, and they aren't always obvious. (You'd think you need Darkfire or Flame Weapon for fire damage, really)
 

Thrasher

Erudite
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,407
I actually thought crafting was the second best gameplay mechanic in ToEE (after everything you could do with the radial menu and the influence system).

Though crafting was a bit buggy if I remember correctly. Definitely save before trying...
 

Pussycat669

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
667
Location
In a fine suit
Warning, inbound entry of enlarged epicness!


The Temple: Getting to the bottom of things (Upper levels - Chapter 2)

'It doesn't matter in which situation one finds himself. As soon as politics get involved, hilarity is bound to follow.' Unknown

Screamer and her gang continue the expedition further downwards. Since this means that there will be also more backtracking later on it is good to know that Tumblefingers, as sleazy as she is, finds a little shortcut.

z1_SecretStairs.jpg



These stairs connect the ground floor with the first and second level and we will use them several times during the first few hours. Once you reached the second level however there is no turning back. It is here that our heroes face the greatest threat of modern society: hot air.

z2_AirFight.jpg



Punkaid's loyal gnoll skeleton can not bare the compressed power of irrational thoughts in combination with the complete absence of coherence and therefore collapses into a worthless pile of bones. (They just don't make them like they used to. - P) At least the red eyes make the targets easy to spot (and even easier to bash). Dealing with those verbal abominations grants the valiant rescuers of common sense a level boost. It’s the 7th Level already and only one step away from high level nobility.

Unfunny Facts: The hall we entered has three exits with the door south being the only one that is unlocked by default. A particularly annoying thing about the other doors here, as for some other doors further below, is that, even if Tumblefingers successfully pries them open, they will be sealed off again after a while, forcing her to do it all over again (together with a ca. 8-10 second animation). The janitor of this place certainly has a high priority on our 'Need to be killed' list.

The party exits to the west and promptly spots a secret door.

z3_SecretDoorAir.jpg



We’ve found our fast ticket into the air temple which will lead us right to its whiney chief cleric Kelno.

z4_Kelno.jpg



Having all his apprentices being assassinated by the water temple apparently has drained his good mood although he tries to hide it behind well mannered humor. His situation makes us sympathize and Screamer decide that it will be him who will lead them to the inner temple and no one other (maybe it is also due to the 'riches beyond your wildest dreams' that Kelno mentioned. It is hard to say). Like Romag, he will have to give us three tasks before the pencil pushers deem us worthy of their time. Our first objective is recruitment work. We shall persuade the bugbears of the water temple to switch sides which would leave the defenses there genuinely weakened. Conveniently, air and water temple are only one secret door away from each other. Screamer gets right to work.

z5_FaithfulServant.jpg



His faithfulness costs Screamer 500 gold. This should be enough to earn our place in the ranks of the air temple. About time that the adventurers put on their water robes and look how the other side looks like. Another chief cleric, Belsoring the name, honors us with a few lines of dialogue.

z6_Belsornig.jpg



I think looking in his living room is enough of a hint about what type of persona you can expect.

z7_LivingRoom.jpg



Of course, he knew that we were coming, that his agents were spying on us for days (Question: if he's such a great knows it all power player, how come he'll attack the group if they don't wear those darn robes?) and that he likes what he has heard. Another recruitment task is in order. This time it's a fearful troll chief. Johnny is sent to the audience with his majesty in case that it should end in havoc. Trolls can be thought of as meaner big brothers of ogres. They have an intimidating melee range, get three attacks per round (which can and probably will hurt your PCs really bad) and don't take any lethal damage from non magical attacks whatsoever. The best way to get rid of them is to beat them silly until they fall to the ground and then finish them off with a coup de grace. Depending on how many trolls you face however this can become less straightforward than it sounds. But let's stop wasting our time on such violent thoughts and return to the fine art of diplomacy.

z8_TrollChiefHello.jpg



Johnny, well aware that the situation is delicate, invites the troll to a dinner in hopes that it will break the ice between the two. The chief doesn't approve.
He must learn that Johnny Legcutter never accepts no as an answer.

z9_TrollChiefThreat1.jpg



Now this is going into the right direction but Johnny is still not quiet satisfied.

z10_TrollChiefThreat2.jpg



Down with your pants you wimp!

z11_TrollChiefThreat3.jpg



All in all this honest exchange of words makes the troll chief a lot more willing for what Screamer tells him to do.

Fun Facts+ Bug Report: If you got a PC with a really high rank in intimidate (around 15 I believe) you can actually force him to join the party. He's a pretty good fighter and very hard to kill thanks of him being a troll and all. Taking him with you will trigger a bug that will make it impossible to successfully solve one of the quests for the fire temple however.

We made another chief cleric happy with fresh greenskins. Now Belsoring wants us to kill the head of the fire temple since he's 'no longer of use' after he helped him to get rid of his (the fire cleric’s) brother, who himself was former chief cleric of the air temple. That makes already two important people with an agenda against the fire temple. They really don't appear to be very popular around these parts. We should join them as well. Kelno has something simpler in mind. We just need to defile the most sacred altar of the earth temple. Knowing that our pals one floor above won't mind we take the job without much hesitation.

Killing priests sounds like too much for our party though so a little more time to chill out seems to be appropriate. There are strange things to discover as we dwell further into the dark corridors. Like a zoo for exotic animals.

z12_TrollZoo1.jpg


z13_TrollZoo2.jpg


Feel free to pet them but be hesitant to show color (or robes) in front of their troll guards since the reaction may be hostile. Seen in the upper right corner of the second picture is one of the greatest mysteries in this building. It's a magically held door that leads to a quick route out but no one (at least not me) ever found out how to open it. If you get lucky you will experience a clipping bug and one or two your guys will simply walk through the door but this happens rather infrequently.

We also encounter a Minotaur who needs some good lessons about ambush setup and execution (or a beating. It's not as if we could do anything else).

z14_Minotaur1.jpg


z15_Minotaur2.jpg



Old spellcaster wisdom says that the bigger the brawn the lower the will saving throw. It appears to be true.

z16_Minotaur3.jpg



We find some elite temple guards nearby who just stand there and watch us passing by. Some other guards we meet behind a secret door are less friendly and for a moment it appears that it would become an epic fight quiet similar to the one in the guard tower but then again there is the good old fireball. This spell is like an entrusted shotgun for wizards. Even if you don't use it you at least keep one in stock for sentimental reason. You can bring the apocalypse now, Magedude!

z17_ApocalypseNow.jpg



We get rid of those tramps easily after that. Turns out their two commanders got names which could mean that they're were meant to be talked with at one point. Meh, we already got enough to do as it is. While Tumblefingers is looting their corpses she spots something interesting hidden underneath the beds.

z18_Bullets.jpg



Is it a bug, a warning or something worthwhile? She keeps it for now just in case.

There are other encounters worth mentioning. Like the smallest troll in the world.

z19_LittleTroll.jpg



Large grubs too. If they are poisonous, we don't know. The heroes won't even bother to memorize the name of those critters as long as they don't find one of them who can survive the first round.

z20_grub.jpg



There are some loud noises coming from the northern halls. Tumblefingers checks the situation and find bugbears, lots of bugbears and many of them with the fearsome surnames ‘elite’ to boot. They are way stronger than the bugbears we faced before and got some pretty nasty tactics on their sleeves. Either they turn on their berserker mode and just charge ahead, dealing heavy damage or they try to trip attack our helpless spellcasters and kick them while they lie on the ground. Coming through the broad entrance hall would be close to suicide. We spot a side entrance and try to get Tumblefingers past the guards to see if killing them will be worth the troubles. She doesn't come far.

z21_BugbearsFight1.jpg



Regroup! Tumblefingers back in line, Johnny in front on the double.

z22_BugbearsFight2.jpg



Yeah, that was predictable. Perhaps an ice storm will calm Magedude's pyromaniac nature.

z23_BugbearsFight3.jpg



It doesn't really but we've made a good entrance into the fight. Throwing some high level spells at a large army of bugbears doesn't mean win by default though. Even when Johnny stands in a pile of the dead, there are still more of them coming from the south.

z24_BugbearsFight4.jpg



Screamer takes the risk and brings the rest in for backup. The enemy bowmen release a, surprisingly accurate, rain of arrows on Tumblefingers in response. Our bold leader drives one of them away with a fear spell.

z25_BugbearsFight5.jpg



More arrows hit Tumblefingers and an elite bugbear comes dangerously close to Magedude. Screamer dazzles him with the power of music.

z26_BugbearsFight6.jpg



Our backup fighters run for cover while Johnny and Punkaid deal with the remaining enemies. Victory is inevitable. Judging by the looks of it we've done our part for the bugbear population control.

z27_BugbearsFightVictory.jpg



While his troops were fighting bravely for their survival, the bugbear in charge was apparently occupied with other, more urgent matters. We are about to bring him back to cruel reality.

z28_BugbearCommander.jpg



Tumblefingers eagerly opens his chest in waits of valuable gems and gold but all what she finds are two black robes of the greater temple. Two stinking robes for all their troubles? Wasn't there a time when walking through dungeons at random was actually rewarded? But self pity aside, it's time to get to the fire temple for some questing. The ogres we encounter on our way there won't stop us now.

z29_OgreSmashUp1.jpg



Well ok, they might delay us a tad. A sicken spell from Magedude should make this fight easy enough since a sickened creature won't be able to attack anymore and the AI is not smart enough to escape. Only their shaman proves to be highly resistant.

z30_OgreSmashUp2.jpg



That would probably mean instant win if Punkaid wouldn’t get sickened as well. He pays dearly for his clumsiness.

z31_OgreSmashUp3.jpg



We nurse our two trouble children back to a minimum with leftover potions but it becomes clear that there won't be a big killing spree today in the fire temple. We were still wearing the fire robes anyway so there is no reason not to offer our services to the chief of fiery destruction. Despite all the bad things we've heard about Alrrem, he proves to be better articulate and organized than expected. He too wants the troll chief in his service and even got a brilliant plan how to persuade him.

z32_Alrrem.jpg



Too bad that he's already sold. Alrrem is not too happy to hear about this but he takes it with a smile nonetheless. If there are no trolls then at least there shall be ogres. Incidentally, there is a nearby cave with enough ogres for hire. Feeling kind of bad about ruining his first quest (and to get out of here again via the quick travel function) we travel to cave immediately. Even while standing on the brink that separates life and death, Screamer can't help herself but whistle the Indian Jones song on the way. It's simply the bard's way of traveling.

z33_Traveling.jpg



Despite her pitiful condition, her tongue is still worth more than silver it appears.

z34_OgreConverter.jpg



More canon fodder for the good cause. Let’s do some shopping and healing while we're at it. As promised, I will also loose some words on crafting and how you will make tons of cash with it.

Take this already quiet valuable dagger +1 for example.

z35_Sellout1.jpg



Let's open Magedude's radial menu (since he's our crafting expert) and watch him doing some enchantment work.

z36_Sellout2.jpg



What I personally like about ToEE's crafting system is its simplicity in terms of ingredients. If you want to enchant a weapon or armor it must either be masterwork equipment (Ottis in Nulb is a reliable supplier for such goods) or you can add more effects to already enchanted items. All effects (except for the +X damage modifiers) require a specific caster level and spell. Then you spent some gold for the crafting expenses (no more looking everywhere for awesome power gems or recipes. That’s good ‘cause I always hated such things with a passion) and experience (the amount that exceeds the minimum requirement for the crafter's current level). If you’re not interested in crafting at all you may still be tempted to waste a perk slot on crafting weapons/armor since you can then give your equipment awesome new names! As for the dagger, Magedude increases the damage modifier to a lofty +3. That will also force us to invest into the +2 modifier as well.

z37_Sellout3.jpg



As you may see, enchanting things is not exactly cheap. Especially the experience drain can be bothersome because this means that Magedude will lag behind the other party members in level. Since we travel in a small group of five however we'll get XP aplenty so it should even out after a while. Especially when looking at the new prices.

z38_Sellout4.jpg



We made a profit of almost 6000 gold! That's more than we would earn grinding through the lower levels of the temple for weeks. That and the other loot we sell gives us enough of a bonus to buy Punkaid a sexy holy mace that deals extra damage to demons. To reward Magedude for his efforts we will also allow him to create our very first wondrous item. Creating wondrous items is handled in its costs similar to crafting magic weapons & armor except that you actually don't add effects but 'buy' an item with the effect listed.

z39_WondrousItem.jpg



It looks a little bit too much like Conan for Magedude's taste but what can you do? It will greatly increase the efficiency of his spells and makes them harder to resist for enemies. With grief in his heart, he sells his old mage hat to the priest for 2 silver and some copper pieces. Better return to the temple now before it gets too sentimental. Scremer defiles the altar of the earth temple if only for the special effects.

z40_EarthUncleansing.jpg



Our last quest for the air temple will be the toughest assignment yet. Kelno wants us to either kill his neighbors from the water temple or Alrrem back in the fire temple. We could make it easy on ourselves and just kill Alrrem and his pathetic small staff. More so as many people want them dead already but since we like Kelno that much we are going to get rid of them both high clerics. After we're done with their quests, that is. To the fire temple! Alrrem is pleased with our new results and gives us another tough job. Falrinth, a powerful mage and the former leader of the forces of good, has been captured and converted to the dark side. He was able to acquire the 'golden orb of death' from which Alrrem believes that, if used correctly, will summon Madame Zlut and bring her back to her former glory. This will be a long and hazardous journey so we don't forget to ask Alrrem's two apprentices for help. There are Mefi's cousin Rubal and the less than sober Antonio.

z41_Tubal.jpg


z42_Antonio.jpg



They got a quest that involves a mace, a ring and some dices but it's far too boring to be explained in detail. Let's go to the local chapel instead. The area lags pretty bad at first but Punkaid is still happy to find someone who shares the same taste in hairstyle.

z43_Bassanio.jpg



The chest standing behind him contains the mighty two-handed sword Frost Brand that might come in handy later. Tumblefingers would've stolen it anyhow.

There is a strange room close to the fire temple that is inhabited by good hearted spirits. It figures that they're also poor judges of character.

z44_Fairy.jpg



There is something suspicious about them though albeit they promise to improve our magic items if we leave them in the room for a couple of moments. Asking about what they want to do with said equipment reveals the awful truth.

z45_FairyTalk.jpg



There is no doubt: they must be game masters in disguise who want to ruin our campaign out of jealousy. Not with Tumblefingers good fellows! We ignore them and search the room. Another secret door! It leads to a small backstage area with two werewolves waiting for us. They are especially hard since we lack any good silver weapons (or actually *any* silver weapons at all for that matter) which means that Johnny and Punkaid deal around 3-5 damage per hit. Only Tumblefingers, with the silver arrows that she found in the armory from the previous chapter and Magedude do really harm to those beast. He throws in another cloud of sickness to buy us more extra time but he aims poorly and Johnny is caught up in the cloud as well.

z46_Werewolves1.jpg



I did mention that those bastards are hard to kill, right?

z47_Werewolves2.jpg



We eventually bring them both down thanks to Punkaid's tremendous buffing efforts. That doesn't stop him from miming the drama queen again though.

z48_WerewolvesVictory.jpg



What happens next is rather amusing considering that the outcome was throughout unintentional. I healed Punkaid with a few potions and wanted to rest but got ambushed by a few crossbowmen (always good since they are piss weak and there are no merchants I know of who actually sell crossbow bolts for Screamer). After the encounter I decide to make a little ironman rest run. You try to rest until it actually works or your people start dying with no backup saves whatsoever. This may sound lame but considering the high chance of random encounters (with their broad variety of challenge ratings) in ToEE it's actually kinda fun to a degree.

Following in line are six gargoyles who force our team to retreat to the hallway. Thankfully, I didn't waste Magedude's fireball on the werewolves since the chance of friendly fire was too high. Not this time however. Incidentally this is again a rather brief encounter. The game punishes poor Magedude for that by spawning a troll right next to him in the following confrontation who almost kills him if it weren't for Punkaid’s good non magical healing abilities. This is topped however by the other troll that is spawned. This time it's Screamer who is about to receive the beat down. Considering that she's flat footed, got a lousy AC (14) which is mostly dexterity based, around 25 HPs and the troll gets three attacks which, separately mind you, can deal around 12-18 damage it looks like this ironman run will end in failure. Desperate times call for desperate measures and Johnny tries to trip attack the monster. That is, to put it mildly, not a very sane idea. Trolls get very good strength bonuses that make it very unlikely that such an attack will work. But some kind of miracle happens and the giant actually falls! Sure, he stands right up again and hits Screamer but he has lost the other two attacks he would otherwise get, just enough time for Screamer to tumble into safety. Needless to say that Johnny stomps that bastard into the ground afterwards. Congratulations! Our adventurers are now officially high level heroes! (except for Magedude because of him wasting his time with crafting)

Since this was supposed to be a gag run for my lone amusement, I failed to make any screenshots of the events that occurred, hence this large chunk of text. I can therefore, to my greatest dissatisfaction, show you nothing but the following screenshot of the dead trolls and the now rested party.

z49_RestTroubles.jpg



I promise that I will make up for it later as our heroes embark on a journey in search of the lost golden orb. May they be protected from the hideous things that await them like evil wizards, a charming catwoman, Nazis and giant rolling rocks.
 

Radisshu

Prophet
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
5,623
Hah, I remember getting that orb and killing the mage by accident by following some secret passage. My characters couldn't actually inflict any damage on him and his familiar, though, so they had to use nonlethal attacks and then coup de grace.
 

Thrasher

Erudite
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,407
Thanks for this!

I suppose you know that you don't have to accept the odd auto-generated names for enchanted weapons/armor (like "+1 +2 +3"). You can edit the name to something else (like "+3") before hitting the create button....
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
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Staff Member
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Messages
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Strap Yourselves In
Just as another FYI:

In the original PnP ToEE module, those two werewolves were actually lying in wait for a party to discover the magical mirror (they were holed up in the secret room next door) and were masquerading as the two angelic beings, actually speaking through the mirror. The whole point, as you can guess, was to get the gullible adventurers to leave all their magical items for the werewolves' consumption. It was one of the more amusing portions of the module and a classic example of Gygax's creative thinking.

Keep up the good work, 'cat. Lots of dialogue here that I never encountered.
 

Pussycat669

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
667
Location
In a fine suit
The Temple: Getting to the bottom of things (Upper levels - Chapter 3)

'Broken bones, lost limbs, death. This is all but nothing compared to what damage this place can do to your mind.' Lord Grey, A Man and his Dungeon

About time the heroes of true and only evil enter the third level. The difficulty of the random encounters rises significantly here and I suggest to avoid resting in these parts unless you want to be ambushed by up to three Ettins for massive XP (and pain). They are the mean spirited, two headed relatives of hill giants. Like this fellow.

x1_Ettin.jpg



Those guys will wipe the floor with your party if they get a surprise round. So golden rule: always save before resting (or go upstairs if you're in ironman mode).

But there are other, less unforgiving obstacles in our path. Spoiled pudding for example.

x2_SpoiledPudding.jpg



They and another blob enemy type called ‘ochre jelly’ got the quiet annoying habit to multiply when hit with something other than magic and blunt weapons. At least Punkaid gets his 3 turns of fame. The group is later on attacked by strange shadowy figures.

x3_ShadowsSpotted.jpg



The most irritating thing about them is that they are almost impossible to spot. Unfortunate for them Magedude, though a scholar by nature also has a surprisingly short temper.

x4_ShadowBurned.jpg



There are more shadows down the hallway packed together with some ogres. Screamer casts her new 'charm monster' spell for research purposes and is immediately rewarded. While a charmed ogre takes care of the shadows our front line fighters can deal with the serious business further south.

x5_OgreMashUp.jpg



But like in any war, there are always survivors.

x6_OgreTalk.jpg



We release sleeping beauty from her curse on our travels. By the looks of it we are some one hundred years too late though. Still, not bothering with minor details (and some venom poisoning), we are greatly rewarded. Specifically by the best elven armor we found so far.

x7_SleepingBeauty.jpg



More tasty jelly ahead! I find something strangely aesthetic about the following screenshot.

x8_Jelly.jpg



Our next fight is of a more serious nature. Three Umber Hulks move in to make a kill but not without each casting confusion spells. Tumblefingers and Punkaid fall victim to this most foul magic.

x9_UmberHulks1.jpg



To make up for this temporal loss in our ranks, Magedude casts 'suggestion' on one of the Umber Hulks. He will make a fine asset in our team for the rest of the battle.

x10_UmberHulks2.jpg



Confusion can cause many things like that the characters will just standing around doing nothing, like it seems in our case. Not taking any risk however, Screamer does something rather unorthodox: she casts 'hideous laughter' (there is some name attached to this spell but I couldn't be arsed to look it up now) that forces the victim on the floor for a couple of turns. Just enough time for the confusion spell to wear off. Our Umby, as Magedude calls him, rams the other Umber Hulk to the left, Johnny takes right.

x11_UmberHulks3.jpg



Johnny catches some minor flesh wounds but all in all the fight is resolved pretty smoothly.

x12_UmberHulksVictory.jpg



Time for some rest!

x13_MoreRandom.jpg



…and more retarded random encounters by the way. At least the gargoyles are not as bad as the 5+ hill giants that killed the whole group in less than 3 turns last time we tried.
As our heroes venture further into the dungeon, Johnny is distracted by what he falsely believe to be puppies.

x14_JackalsFight1.jpg



Suspiciously tame they are unlike these hairy fellows.

x15_JackalsFight2.jpg



We are up against some were-things again meaning that this will again take a little longer. There are also some gargoyles that are coming down from the ceiling in case we get bored. Screamer summons a Fungi for backup but the darn thing keeps on attacking the werejackals for 0 damage.

x16_JackalsFight3.jpg



Screamer persuades one of the gargoyles to our side who takes the beating for us from the werecreatures. Screamer is impressed by the gargoyle's stubbornness to survive. She offers him a full time place in our party once the battle is over.

x17_JackalsFightVictory.jpg



Oh well, if we can't get you then we'll get your XP. This is how RPGs roll, I'm afraid.
We encounter another wave of goblins and wonder where the colors of creativity went during this slaughter. Magedude finds some nice replacement.

x18_GoblinsRush.jpg



Of course, we know by now that goblins are but mere distractions from the real threat…
or threats for this matter.

x19_HillGiantsSpotted.jpg



One more charm spell coming up!

x20_HillGiantsCharmed.jpg



Let me assure you that screenshots couldn't possibly capture the joy that comes from watching two very big dudes beating the crap out of one another. To make sure that we can react on the next encounters with maximum efficiency (and let Screamer stay in the leading position since the leader is always most likely to be engaged in a triggered conversation), we use the formation button for the very first time (the dotted triangle in the lower right corner). Creating a formation is fairly easy compared to the effort necessary to contain it. Just drag & drop the PCs to whenever you thing they fit best. You can also save different formations in the numbered slots above if you really need to.

x21_Formation.jpg



Tumblefingers spots a secret door while Screamer and Magedude are discussing tactics. As she opens it out of curiosity, she catches a glimpse of a very strange man. Strange because he is standing yet seems to be asleep somehow.

x22_MrX.jpg



It would be really rude to wake him up so promptly now wouldn't it? Let's see what he’s carrying in his big pockets. Some scrolls and a very expensive looking amulet make Tumblefingers lusts for more. But as she's about to remove the golden rings from his fingers he suddenly awakens and attacks! Totally unprovoked! Johnny, quiet the gentleman knows what to do with people who harass the ladies but is suddenly struck by some kind of energy that emits from the attacker’s body. Magedude (thanks to no small part to his headband of extreme intellect) is easy to realize that creature, whoever it was, must be a mutant, created by magical radiation and therefore a threat to society. It must be put down for good before the contamination can spread. Thankfully, Tumblefingers is right on it and frees the poor thing from its misery with a well placed critical sneak attack. That's what you get for interfering with a lady's work.

x23_MrXDead.jpg



Who that man was before the mutation took place? We shall never know. It's not like his name would be carved in pretty much all of his equipment. *cough*
Speaking of which, Magedude finds a sword on the corpse that emits an unpleasant aura of goodness. We let the priests from the St. Cuthbert church do an analysis.

x24_Fragarach.jpg



Oh, that sounds nice, if it wasn't a 'goods only' weapon that is. But it is hard to overlook that everyone in the party is filled with joy as they hear the offer for this fine piece of equipment. 72.000 gold pieces! That is a hefty retirement sum. Tumblefingers says that there should be more sleeping men in this campaign.

Back to the third level where we meet some more prisoners. It appears that Johnny wasn't the only one to fall into the 'marry my horrible daughter for XP' trap.

x25_FarmerWife.jpg


x26_FarmerMan.jpg



Fun Facts: You can actually ask them for the latest rumors if you don't release them as a little intended joke.

Our next encounter that is set against us involves the terrible Leucrottas. They are magical beings that can weaken your characters with powerful curses before tearing them to shreds. Killing them before they are done casting their spells is a good course of action (they cast quiet a bunch before they actually start attacking).

x27_Leucrottas1.jpg



It doesn't start too well. Johnny is paralyzed early with a hold person spell but manages to escape in the next turn. The rest of the team keeps on missing this agile beast.

x28_Leucrottas2.jpg



We initialize the standard procedures. Magedude casts web, just in case, Screamer and Punkaid provide the party with buffs and Johnny, well, Johnny just does his thing like always.

x29_Leucrottas3.jpg



Wonder how much its skin is worth.

x30_Leucrottas4.jpg



The fighters bravely enter the web. Not a very smart thing to do for Punkaid since his strength has been decreased to a meager 5 or so.

x31_Leucrottas5.jpg



Thankfully, Johnny looks easier to swallow but isn't really.

x32_Leucrottas6.jpg



Another day, another victory.

x33_LeucrottasVictory.jpg



Please, settle down and listen, dear reader, as I'm about to tell you the tale of a simple dwarf, trapped between two devilish women. It all begins with a dangerous lamia in a neighboring room plus some very angry flora.

x34_Lamia1.jpg



The mushrooms are not particularly threatening but they release a cloud that will blind anyone close by which can be dangerous at times. You should worry more about the catwoman though as she's a bit too eager throwing charm spells at every opportunity. Johnny, who was always the credulous type, quickly succumbs to her prowess. Screamer fascinates him with a song that will keep in at bay for now.

x35_Lamia2.jpg



Magedude brings some havoc to the seductive mistress but not that much due to her spell resistance.

x36_Lamia3.jpg



Scremer casts another hideous laughter thing and Johnny falls to the ground. I've never looked up how many rounds a charm person spell lasts and this seems to be the right time to do it. It's about 1500 turns. Johnny would have to laugh very, very long before this spells expires.

x37_Lamia4.jpg



During the time I wasted looking up numbers, the catwoman kept on casting charm on Punkaid but failed miserably thanks to his good will saving throws. I'm about to send him in to confront her directly as something really bad happens. That blasted idiot gets himself charmed as well (and while he's at it, bashes Magedude who stands right next to him). The only two melee fighters in the group are now turned against us. We're so dead right now; it's almost not funny anymore. In her great despair, Screamer casts a fear spell on Punkaid who heedlessly runs into our web and gets trapped.

x38_Lamia5.jpg



Punkaid uses the time he can't do anything by drinking all his potions of bull's strength and hitting Johnny when he stands up. Johnny, still overpowered by the spell, turns to the rest of the group and picks Tumblefingers as a target. This would normally be the time when I hit the big fat reload button as there seems to be no possible way that I can still win this mess. Then, all of a sudden, an idea occurs to me. Doesn't Screamer know the charm person spell as well? I open her menu. Yes, it's there and even one charge left! (Tutorial: Since I haven't explained it 'til now, bards, similar to sorcerers, don't memorize spells like wizards do. Instead they get a specific amount of 'charges' for every spell level they have. Screamer, for example, can cast three level 2 spells, two level 3 spells and so forth without having to selectively memorizing them)

Thanks to Johnny's crappy will saving throw we welcome him back to our team. Screamer might have turned him into a mindless thrall but hey, it's not like it wasn't that way in the first place. We turn him into non-lethal mode and let him beat Punkaid silly for his weakness for furry woman (and for wasting all those good potions).

x39_Lamia6.jpg



With Johnny back on our side, nothing can possibly stop us.

x40_LamiaVictory.jpg



That's for trying to outwit a high level bard you daft cow! (uh... cat)

More rest followed by more enemies.

x41_Wisps.jpg



Irritating since they're hard to hit but not really dangerous from their damage output. Besides, a little shock therapy might be just the think to make Johnny think straight again.

More secrets!

x42_Secret.jpg



We meet a half elf who attacks us on sight. After a few hits the situation starts to change and it would be a lot for the worst if it wasn't for Tumblefingers broad knowledge about scum of all kinds.

x43_Damsel.jpg



She makes two more or less shocking revelations: what appeared to be a decently attractive half elf turns out to be a still decently attractive half orc and that she's the leader of the guard tower brigands that we've fought way back. She's dead meat after that, leaving behind a very nice ring of invisibility for Tumblefingers.

Fun Facts: If your PC fails his sense motive check they will let her go by default even if your party is evil which strikes me as kinda strange.

Finally, we discover our main target. It’s the fallen wizard Falrinth.

x44_Falrinth.jpg



He gives away that he really possesses the orb and that its powers can be reawakened by magic ornaments. Like the one our party has already found (Screamer has already forgotten where). Good old F. is not a person who likes to share though so a duel seems inventible.

Bug report: Oh, a lot of those in this fight. Most importantly, if F. gets a chance for an attack of opportunity, he will continue to prickle his target until it is either dead or you click the mouse buttons which will make him stop in his tracks. The second thing to consider is a secret door to the south end of the room. When pushed, F. will try to retreat there and get stuck which wouldn't be so bad if he wouldn't become almost impossible to aim at as well. You should try to engage him from multiple directions. Everything that will prevent him from retreating to the south if possible. His flaming hand spells also don't deal any damage for some odd reasons.

Even without the bugs this is one of the easier encounters so far although F. tries to impose our heroes with nice looking special effects.

x45_FalrinthAttack.jpg



He and his little imp (already dead in this screenshot) don't take any lethal damage and must be killed with coup de grace. Just wait until F.'s invisibility wears of than hit him with anything you've got. Case dismissed. Searching his room reveals a secret chest which conceals what we seek: the golden orb of death although someone has removed the stones it appears.

x46_SkullDiscovered.jpg



Curiously, Screamer takes it into her hands but fades out all of a sudden.

x47_Secene1.jpg



Whoo, red sky. This crack is good. Wait a minute, is there something hanging in the clouds?

x48_Secene2.jpg



Yeah, looks familiar.

x49_Secene3.jpg



Hey, it's the skull again! How is it going, man?

x50_Secene4.jpg



Whoa, man! Private space! Private space!

x51_Secene5.jpg



Heh heh, secret hole. *chukles*

Now that has certainly expanded her mind but Magedude wants to ask the priest in Hommlet for his professional opinion on this nevertheless.

It turns out that there is a small shaft nearby that leads back to the guard towers. So we could have skipped this whole episode...altogether...all the time. It's better not to dwell on such a thought. Most of the gang has now reached 9th level so the win/lose is balanced out albeit barely. Let's go to the holy place.

x52_SkullIdentified.jpg



The more our folks hear about the orb, the more it becomes doubtful that they are going to give it away at all. We always wanted to see how a priest of the fire temple will react to denial. Right after the commercial break. Stay tuned.
 

Pussycat669

Liturgist
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Got another question about crafting for ya. When crafting armor, what exactly is the spell resistance [13] for? Does it absorb magical damage or does it increase the saving throws against magic? Does the spell resistance of several items stack (e.g. shield + armor)?
Thanks in advance.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Spell resistance seems to work in percentage. Meaning 13 means you have 13% chance to resist a spell completely.
 

Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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If you cast a spell on a target with spell resistance, you have to succeed in a spell penetration check, otherwise the spell does nothing. The DC is the spell resistance level, and the higher the spell level and your ability modifier (e.g. charisma for sorcerers) the better the bonus you get for penetrating it. SR doesn't stack, sorry.
However, as far as I can recall, crafting it into an armor is bugged in vanilla ToEE. (and was fixed in Co8)

BTW, the summoning figure in the Imeryds I mentioned earlier, doesn't summon fungi - it summons a Lamia, much like the one you fought, only without the +3 sword (you did loot the Lamia, right?).

Also, you might want to cast the protection from chaos spell on your guys. It wards them from spells like charm. Since your priest is lawful, it should be available to you.

P.S. are you using the rolls history thing? It's very useful for figuring out things like that.
 

Pussycat669

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Messages
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Location
In a fine suit
Sitra Achara said:
SR doesn't stack, sorry.

Oh, that's not bad at all. It saves money and moreover XP to enchant only the armor without bothering with the shields. Magedude recently created two pairs of gloves of +6 dexterity for Screamer and Tumblefingers so he's pretty much dried out as it is.
How exactly is spell protection bugged as in 'it doesn't work at all' or 'it does stack'? (Not that I'm going for exploits. The party doesn't really need such things anyways)

Sitra Achara said:
BTW, the summoning figure in the Imeryds I mentioned earlier, doesn't summon fungi - it summons a Lamia, much like the one you fought

Now you've got me intrigued going back and get it. Her charming spells might come in handy against Hedrack and all the hill giants/ettins/ogres around him.

Sitra Achara said:
(you did loot the Lamia, right?).

Taking everything that is remotely magical is the sworn duty of every good adventurer. :patriot:

Sitra Achara said:
Also, you might want to cast the protection from chaos spell on your guys. It wards them from spells like charm. Since your priest is lawful, it should be available to you.

That's good to know although if I remember correctly that there are only really rare occasions that someone tries to convert your PCs (actually I only remembered it from the finale). I was also caught unprepared in this fight and didn't have many spells left in the first place which made things a little rough from the start.

Sitra Achara said:
P.S. are you using the rolls history thing? It's very useful for figuring out things like that.

Dunno, all I'm reading is something like 'x misses', 'x hits' and other rather uninformative things. I could turn it on though if someone desires to read more in game text.

Are there any enemies in ToEE that can permanently drain HP by any chance? I just realized that Punkaid had 43 HP with level 7 before we went to the third level. Now he's level 9 and only has 41 HP...

Also, does a NPC that is forced into my party via suggestion 'steal' any XP from encounters?
 

Crichton

Prophet
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
1,212
Spell resistance seems to work in percentage. Meaning 13 means you have 13% chance to resist a spell completely.

Not even close; read and learn:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance

Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check.

The Spell Resistance entry and the descriptive text of a spell description tell you whether spell resistance protects creatures from the spell. In many cases, spell resistance applies only when a resistant creature is targeted by the spell, not when a resistant creature encounters a spell that is already in place.

The terms "object" and "harmless" mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above.

*Note that as far as I know, no game has ever implemented that last part, lowering spell resistance, they just don't check for SR for beneficial spells. SR also isn't supposed to apply to conjuration spells, but that tends to be spotty too.
 

Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,859
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Pussycat669 said:
How exactly is spell protection bugged as in 'it doesn't work at all' or 'it does stack'? (Not that I'm going for exploits. The party doesn't really need such things anyways)
Doesn't work.

Dunno, all I'm reading is something like 'x misses', 'x hits' and other rather uninformative things. I could turn it on though if someone desires to read more in game text.
The blue text bits are actually hyperlinks to the precise roll breakdowns.

Are there any enemies in ToEE that can permanently drain HP by any chance? I just realized that Punkaid had 43 HP with level 7 before we went to the third level. Now he's level 9 and only has 41 HP...
No, don't think so. Was he ever poisoned? Maybe it's a constitution drain that stuck due to a bug. Could he be wielding a holy weapon by any chance? That holy mace you bought, perhaps? Evil characters get a level drain while wielding holy weapons.

A good substitute for holy weapons are Axiomatic ("lawful") weapons. Most of the baddies in ToEE are CHAOTIC Evil, so it works just as well on them. If you took the Law domain for your priest guy (who is a lawful disciple of Hextor, I see) then you should be able to craft weapons with that trait.

Also, does a NPC that is forced into my party via suggestion 'steal' any XP from encounters?
Possibly, I don't know.
 

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