curry
Arcane
bat_boro said:
I hope not. I just hate recognizing voice actors when I play a game. It kills the immersion.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Risen 2 gameplay presentation
- Thread starter Elwro
- Start date
I hope not. I just hate recognizing voice actors when I play a game. It kills the immersion.
Leimrey
Educated
villain of the story said:
I hope you're not talking about combat here, as combat was absolute garbage in AC2 and Brotherhood (never played the original) games. Shit, it's like playing one fuckhuge reaction based QTE when you have to press the counterkill button for an instawin. There's no need for positioning, maneuvering or regular attacks, you just stand in one fucking place with your block button held and wait for the right moment. Fuck, at least "properly" done QTEs (like in the Last Remnant) require you to push a randomly chosen button for increased "difficulty". And let's not forget the addition of instakill chains added in Brotherhood that made combat a mere triviality. This is what happens when developers casualize the already casual shit.
Ivory Samoan
Liturgist
Being a Pirate must have its advantages..
Metro
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 27,792
M4BE1R0 said:
Not buggy at all. It is basically a streamlined amalgam of Gothic 1 and 2. Melee combat is even better (at least in my opinion) but being a mage is still relatively overpowered. One thing they slightly improved on being a mage is that you're given a choice of three nukes (fire being the best) and can cast those for a relatively low amount of mana 5-8 and the damage it does increases the more talent points you expend into it (but the mana cost never increases). The other spells, however, are fairly useless or... rather... just utility spells that all classes make use out of and aren't particularly anymore useful to a mage. There is basically zero point in learning the rune version of any spell or scroll creation since you'll find more than enough scrolls and, if not, you can simply buy some. Overall, mages are balanced arguably worse than the first two games. There's pretty much no need to invest learning points to increase your mana total.
Having played through as a mage since my last post in the thread I can tell you that other than the first act there is basically zero difference on how the rest of the game plays out. What is even worse is that there is absolutely no difference in the first act between a mage and warrior of the order. The quests are the exact same and, near as I can tell, no point in choosing warrior since the only difference between it and a mage is that your nukes are capped at 7 instead of 10. It isn't as if a mage is limited in training melee/strength so you can just do the same as a mage. The final boss is TERRIBLE. The fight is the same regardless of what path you choose (and again, there's basically only two paths: bandit and mage) and you end up in the exact same armor.
Overall the game is a noticeable regression from Gothic 2 NOTR except for one or two areas like melee combat, somewhat expanded crafting, and obviously voice acting. Not great, but better than most modern RPGs. Play as a bandit (side with the Don) on hard, use swords and a shield. If you're really curious go back and play the first chapter as a mage. Game is only about 25-30ish hours long but that's pretty hefty by today's standards.
Random tips: Pickpocketing is basically worthless. Sneak is somewhat useful when playing as a bandit to steal stuff from houses... it also lets you sneak up on the few hostile ogres in the game since they count as humans and give them a good power whack. You don't really need the skinning/trophy collection but it can help for the first play through depending on how good you are at finding the random stuff to sell. Blacksmithing is worth it (you'll need prospecting, too). Acrobatics is worthless. Get pick lock 3 as soon as you can.
Helpful FAQ/guide: http://mikesrpgcenter.com/risen/index.html
Excidium
P. banal
Risen is Gothic 1 with better graphics, ui and controls.
Coyote
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,149
Personally, I like the melee combat in Gothic 2 a little bit better than in Risen, mostly because of how shields work in Risen. Aside from that, I agree with almost everything Metro said, although I would rather take a point in pickpocketing than in sneaking since there are something like four sneaking rings in the game, three of which can be found/bought in Chapter 1 (although you'll likely only find the one in Harbor Town if you limit yourself to exploring level-appropriate areas), and pickpocketing can occasionally be used as an alternative method for solving a quest. Better to spend the LP on mana if you're a mage, though. (Mana is the only trainable attribute without a cap; other classes should be able to reach the cap for their main attributes easily.) I'm surprised he didn't mention alchemy 3, though, which as in the Gothics is the best LP investment in the game since it more than makes up for its LP cost in permanent stat boosts alone. It's also necessary if you want to max out strength or dexterity.
Additionally, smithing 2 is definitely worth it for any character, but 3 may or may not be worth it as a mage due to having early access to the best amulet in the game (note that you'll never be able to finish a certain minor quest without it, though). This is presumably true of Order members as well, but they're more likely to want to switch it out for the strength amulet and/or forge Souldrinker, the most powerful sword you'll find until the last chapter. Likewise, mages can get by with only lockpicking 2 (or even 0, although I wouldn't recommend it); you can't cast the unlock rune until chapter 3 since wisdom can only be raised to 149 by the end of chapter 2, but you can use it to make scrolls, and you don't encounter level 3 chests in large numbers until chapter 3 anyway. I think I only had to make something like 10-15 scrolls to open every chest you can reach in chapters 1 and 2.
(OTOH, given how unnecessary rune-casting is with the abundance of scrolls - which, incidentally, also cost less mana than casting from runes - you might be better off taking lockpicking 3 and skipping investing in rune-casting altogether. But since it's the main unique advantage of playing a mage, I'd prefer to take it.)
If you take smithing, you may also want to invest in prospecting since otherwise you'll be very limited in the number of items you can forge, though you should still have enough if you only use it to make the best items. I made note of all the permanent stat boosters in my last playthrough and decided I might as well note all the ore deposits as well, and it comes down to an additional 90 iron ore, 100 gold ore, and 85 obsidian ore (assuming that I found all of the available ore deposits), as well as 17 additional small gems (assuming that you don't use an exploit that allows you to get a gem from every deposit you mine). A more detailed breakdown:
Additionally, smithing 2 is definitely worth it for any character, but 3 may or may not be worth it as a mage due to having early access to the best amulet in the game (note that you'll never be able to finish a certain minor quest without it, though). This is presumably true of Order members as well, but they're more likely to want to switch it out for the strength amulet and/or forge Souldrinker, the most powerful sword you'll find until the last chapter. Likewise, mages can get by with only lockpicking 2 (or even 0, although I wouldn't recommend it); you can't cast the unlock rune until chapter 3 since wisdom can only be raised to 149 by the end of chapter 2, but you can use it to make scrolls, and you don't encounter level 3 chests in large numbers until chapter 3 anyway. I think I only had to make something like 10-15 scrolls to open every chest you can reach in chapters 1 and 2.
(OTOH, given how unnecessary rune-casting is with the abundance of scrolls - which, incidentally, also cost less mana than casting from runes - you might be better off taking lockpicking 3 and skipping investing in rune-casting altogether. But since it's the main unique advantage of playing a mage, I'd prefer to take it.)
If you take smithing, you may also want to invest in prospecting since otherwise you'll be very limited in the number of items you can forge, though you should still have enough if you only use it to make the best items. I made note of all the permanent stat boosters in my last playthrough and decided I might as well note all the ore deposits as well, and it comes down to an additional 90 iron ore, 100 gold ore, and 85 obsidian ore (assuming that I found all of the available ore deposits), as well as 17 additional small gems (assuming that you don't use an exploit that allows you to get a gem from every deposit you mine). A more detailed breakdown:
Ores (note: for any given ore type, you get one gem every 3 times you mine it. However, the counter does not reset between saves, so you can get a gem for every ore deposit if you use reloads to mine it 3 times):
Iron (amber, sapphire) - 18 deposits available (90 iron, 6 gems)
* In the gnome caves near the shipwreck where the game is started
* In the gnome caves on the cliffs to the west of Harbor Town
* (*6) In the cave where Dorgan is found (the one that links the bandit swamp to Tristam's farm)
* Along the cliff face leading down to the back entrance of Harbor Town
* Along the river that leads to the eastern (non-bandit) swamp
* In a cave in the eastern swamp
* In Lord Patroscon's cave (the one that links the northeastern part of the island to the rest)
* By the ash beast across the rope bridge in the northeast section of the map (where the Gyrger and his gnomes are)
* In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* Below the entrance to the volcano keep, accessible only after the end of chapter 1 when the inquisitor leads you there
Gold (emerald, ruby) - 20 deposits available (+1 that's inaccessible; 100 gold, 6 gems)
* In the wolf cave east of Tristam's farm
* (*3) In the cave where Dorgan is found
* (*2) Along the cliffs leading from above the Don's camp to the circle of graves where Patty's first grave is found in chapter 2
* In the bandit swamp, near where Doug takes you hunting for a rotworm
* (*4) Among the ruins in the southwest part of the island
* (*2) On cliff faces off the road up to the monastery
* Near an ashbeast on a cliff above the back entrance to Harbor Town
* (*2) In Lord Patroscon's cave (there's also a third, unreachable ore deposit here)
* In the northeastern section of the island along the path to the Gyrger's ruins
* (*2) In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* Below the entrance to the volcano keep, accessible only after the end of chapter 1 when the inquisitor leads you there
Obsidian (anti-magic crystal, diamond) - 17 deposits available (85 obsidian, 5 gems)
* On the beach below the ruins on the southwest portion of the map. Hard to see; it's hidden along a wall near the path up from the beach
* In the eastern swamp
* In a gnome camp near the Gyrger's lair on the northeastern part of the island
* In the northern temple (the one above Tilda's farm)
* In the cave behind the waterfall near the southwest ruins, just outside a temple that can only be accessed in chapter 4
* (*2) In the western part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* In the eastern temple (the one near the eastern swamp), first accessible during chapter 2
* In the lizardman prison (the northeastern dungeon where the druid Eldric is found), first accessible during chapter 2
* (*5) In the large dungeon that is explored throughout chapter 3, mostly around the swamp tunnels
* In the temple behind the waterfall, first accessible during chapter 4
* In the eastern temple within the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island, first accessible during chapter 4
Iron (amber, sapphire) - 18 deposits available (90 iron, 6 gems)
* In the gnome caves near the shipwreck where the game is started
* In the gnome caves on the cliffs to the west of Harbor Town
* (*6) In the cave where Dorgan is found (the one that links the bandit swamp to Tristam's farm)
* Along the cliff face leading down to the back entrance of Harbor Town
* Along the river that leads to the eastern (non-bandit) swamp
* In a cave in the eastern swamp
* In Lord Patroscon's cave (the one that links the northeastern part of the island to the rest)
* By the ash beast across the rope bridge in the northeast section of the map (where the Gyrger and his gnomes are)
* In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* Below the entrance to the volcano keep, accessible only after the end of chapter 1 when the inquisitor leads you there
Gold (emerald, ruby) - 20 deposits available (+1 that's inaccessible; 100 gold, 6 gems)
* In the wolf cave east of Tristam's farm
* (*3) In the cave where Dorgan is found
* (*2) Along the cliffs leading from above the Don's camp to the circle of graves where Patty's first grave is found in chapter 2
* In the bandit swamp, near where Doug takes you hunting for a rotworm
* (*4) Among the ruins in the southwest part of the island
* (*2) On cliff faces off the road up to the monastery
* Near an ashbeast on a cliff above the back entrance to Harbor Town
* (*2) In Lord Patroscon's cave (there's also a third, unreachable ore deposit here)
* In the northeastern section of the island along the path to the Gyrger's ruins
* (*2) In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* Below the entrance to the volcano keep, accessible only after the end of chapter 1 when the inquisitor leads you there
Obsidian (anti-magic crystal, diamond) - 17 deposits available (85 obsidian, 5 gems)
* On the beach below the ruins on the southwest portion of the map. Hard to see; it's hidden along a wall near the path up from the beach
* In the eastern swamp
* In a gnome camp near the Gyrger's lair on the northeastern part of the island
* In the northern temple (the one above Tilda's farm)
* In the cave behind the waterfall near the southwest ruins, just outside a temple that can only be accessed in chapter 4
* (*2) In the western part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* In the eastern part of the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island
* In the eastern temple (the one near the eastern swamp), first accessible during chapter 2
* In the lizardman prison (the northeastern dungeon where the druid Eldric is found), first accessible during chapter 2
* (*5) In the large dungeon that is explored throughout chapter 3, mostly around the swamp tunnels
* In the temple behind the waterfall, first accessible during chapter 4
* In the eastern temple within the large volcano cave on the northern part of the island, first accessible during chapter 4
Metro
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 27,792
Yeah alchemy slipped my mind as did the sneak rings (I actually hated that about the game... pretty stupid you can just find a ring that gives you an ability you'd otherwise have to spend LP on). Really, though, there isn't a huge need to min/max a character in Risen given how the final boss encounter works and you'll usually have plenty of LP by the time you're nearing the end. I can't say raising your mana cap is that necessary as a mage. Granted I only played until about midway through Chapter 4 as a mage before I got bored but I think I only had about 60 or 70 mana -- potions are found in abundance (or just bought) and I can't remember any packs of enemies that couldn't be dispatched within that 60ish mana limit. Even if there are you can simply run away while drinking (you can drink a potion while moving unlike G1/G2) and run back and nuke. If playing as a mage I wouldn't spend a single point in anything (except lock pick if you opt out of using unlock scrolls) until you get access to your nuke spells at the end of Chapter 1. At that point, max out your chosen nuke as fast as possible. Having Fireball 10 and 60 mana > having fireball 5 and 100+ mana. Personally I think fire is the best as it has a small AoE and does the most damage. Frost is okay for kiting but you really shouldn't need to do that.
Coyote
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,149
Oh, definitely; there's no reason to start investing in mana until you've maxed out your chosen crystal. The main reason I found higher mana useful was for breathing room when I missed and for groups of lizardmen elites; I could take down individual lizardmen with lower mana and run away, but it was a pain in some of the tight corridors. Eventually I said "fuck this" and used most of my permanent potions to boost mana (you only get enough berries for ~16-17), and it made the game much more enjoyable. There's also a few points point at which you have to use a nautilus spell or drop into a small room with no way back out and 2-3 enemies, and that was a pain as a mage even without having to worry about downing mana potions.
I liked fireball for it's area of effect early on, but I found it less useful later. Because it does lower damage to the enemies it doesn't hit directly and because of the way damage reduction works, the AoE had a minimal effect on battles later in the game. Even if an enemy got hit with the AoE every time I attacked their allies, it would only reduce their health by a sliver and I'd still need the same number of direct hits to take them down.
But yeah, you're right about there being no real need to min-max. In fact, I generally find Risen and the Gothics more fun the more "naturally" I play them (e.g., using the stone tablets and other stat boosters as I come across them in NotR, rather than trying to train the stats as high as I can before doing so - which just makes you a wimp most of the game and a god in the last chapter or two). It can be hard, though, because there's just something about them that brings out my optimizing side.
Agreed about the skill rings, as well. That was just bad design.
I liked fireball for it's area of effect early on, but I found it less useful later. Because it does lower damage to the enemies it doesn't hit directly and because of the way damage reduction works, the AoE had a minimal effect on battles later in the game. Even if an enemy got hit with the AoE every time I attacked their allies, it would only reduce their health by a sliver and I'd still need the same number of direct hits to take them down.
But yeah, you're right about there being no real need to min-max. In fact, I generally find Risen and the Gothics more fun the more "naturally" I play them (e.g., using the stone tablets and other stat boosters as I come across them in NotR, rather than trying to train the stats as high as I can before doing so - which just makes you a wimp most of the game and a god in the last chapter or two). It can be hard, though, because there's just something about them that brings out my optimizing side.
Agreed about the skill rings, as well. That was just bad design.
Metro
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 27,792
Not a fan of min/max either and I think they go overboard in G2 NOTR (of course the argument at time of release is that only experienced G2 players would be playing it). As you say, the flow just isn't 'natural.' Even with conserving LP such that the only thing I got other than strength and 2H skill (until I was ready for alchemy/stone tablets) was lockpick and skinning... getting to the required strength level to wield the 'end game' paladin weapons was like pulling teeth. I used the Claw of Beliar this time (stupidly OP but never did it before) but still noted that it would have been next to impossible to keep up with the strength requirements to get weapons appropriate for where I was at in the game.
With Risen, though, I was ultimately disappointed that after nearly a decade PB is still making the same design mistakes with mages as they have been since Gothic 1. I can only hope it will improve in Risen 2 but I doubt it.
With Risen, though, I was ultimately disappointed that after nearly a decade PB is still making the same design mistakes with mages as they have been since Gothic 1. I can only hope it will improve in Risen 2 but I doubt it.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.