VD's New Vegas review is up at NMA

Gragt · Nov 24, 2010

POOPOO MCBUMFACE said:
What other games since have managed to surpass the design of the original Fallouts?

Not many, but it's not like it's an issue. Not everything reaches greatness, nor does it have to, but it happens once in a while. And some of the great stuff will influence what comes next. Yes, a lot of shit CRPG came out these last years, but we do get good ones once in a while and those are the ones that are remembered.

Anyway my point was that NV doesn't put the first two Fallout to shame, as you said, because the former is simply the consequence of the latter. What it does put to shame is recent mediocrities like Fallout 3.

Clockwork Knight said:
If it was just a stepping stone you expected to be surpassed in some years, you would probably be revising your personal Holy Trinity at the same intervals.

Meh, I didn't talk of the technological side at all. And yes, things evolve and we build from what came before. Look at our history and you'll see that this is what happened. I used this exemple a few times before but it is still relevant: just like Shakespeare surpassed those who came before him, he was later surpassed by those who came after him, like Ibsen, Shaw, or Beckett, but this wouldn't have been possible without his legacy. Fallout is great, improved on what came before, and we can only expect it to be surpassed later because of what it left. As I said, it's not like everything that comes after will be as good, and we certainly see it now, but it left its mark, and we can see it too.

Admiral jimbob · Nov 24, 2010

Blackadder said:
When the best of what came before is actually surpassed

Click to expand...

Well my dear Admiral...opinions differ on whether Fallout was the best to have come before. It wasn't for me, but that is probably a generation thing.

It is amusing actually. I thought the same thing as you do when Fallout 1 came out. When playing it on its release in '97 I thought 'This is a nice change to the rubbish that has been delivered of late. It doesn't quite satisfy me to the level Wasteland did, but honestly, it is just about there'.

I never shook this thought, and it is still my opinion. Fallout was a watered down Wasteland, but still a very good game.

Ironic that I see a young fellow voicing similar thoughts years later, about yet another spiritual sequel of the same franchise (yes, I know Wasteland isn't official, but only a semantic idiot would press the point on that).

Well, true, having delved further back (despite what some unhinged chaps believe) it's no longer my favourite of the "old school" RPGs. I still recognise it as a milestone, though, a shift towards an RPG model that could have been far better had it been fleshed out properly instead of turning into the genre into a mess of glorified dating sims. In that sense, I'd say it was/is definitely unbeaten in some aspects such as quest design, dialogue that actually matters, the lauded C&C and fluffier stuff like atmosphere.

In some ways, that is an apt comparison; New Vegas could well be the Fallout 1 of this generation. Hopefully it inspires a few Bethesdeans to see the error of their ways.

Anyway my point was that NV doesn't put the first two Fallout to shame, as you said, because the former is simply the consequence of the latter.

I see what you mean, I chose my wording poorly. It'd probably be more accurate to see it feels like a natural successor in these areas... dare I say it, but Obsidian might finally be hitting their stride. Took them long enough. The game actually finishes and everything!

Marquess Cornwallis · Nov 24, 2010

Good review, VD, and overall, a very fun game. Which is what it all boils down to in the end. Yes, the difference from Fallout 3 may be no more than better writing, quest design and minor gameplay tweaks, but seeing as Fallout 3 bored me to death while I found New Vegas one of the most enjoyable games in recent memory (flaws notwithstanding), I can hardly complain.

Overall, a very pleasant surprise, especially since I really disliked Alpha Protocol.

Relay · Nov 24, 2010

Unlike these games, New Vegas is a very, very non-linear game where you shape the story pretty much the way you see fit. Hard to believe, I know. I didn't expect it either.

You seem to be a guy who mostly enjoys RPGs for the ending slides it brings. It's non-linear, yes, but the C&C doesn't matter that much in the game, not as much as you claim in your review. You can butcher hundreds of legionaries and NCR troopers and you'll be forgiven once you hit the strip. C&C, even good C&C, doesn't redeem a game with a very shitty and uninspired setting, boring combat and annoying mechanics. The only things that are Fallouty in New Vegas are superficial, like the name of the gangs (WHY ? other than appealing to the fanboy's nostalgia there is no reason why the Khans should be revived once again), the presence of supermutants, ghouls and weapons like the plasma caster. It's all about toying with your nostalgia. Fallout is a dead horse and both Bethesda and Obsidian as beating it with a supersledge. The setting is dead. It doesn't give that survivalist vibe that I expect from a postapo setting, which is pretty normal since the timeline has been advancing so much.

How about they stop recycling old, dead settings and try to make something new ?

Vault Dweller · Nov 24, 2010

Relay said:
You seem to be a guy who mostly enjoys RPGs for the ending slides it brings.

The most important aspect in RPGs for me is not the ending slides but the ability to make my own choices as I progress through the game/story, which happened to be NV's strongest aspect.

It's non-linear, yes, but the C&C doesn't matter that much in the game, not as much as you claim in your review. You can butcher hundreds of legionaries and NCR troopers and you'll be forgiven once you hit the strip.

The reasons are explained. The chip is more important to the leaders of the factions than the fact that you killed a few of their soldiers.

C&C, even good C&C, doesn't redeem a game with a very shitty and uninspired setting, boring combat and annoying mechanics.

In your opinion, which you're certainly entitled to.

Relay · Nov 24, 2010

Vault Dweller said:
Relay said:

You seem to be a guy who mostly enjoys RPGs for the ending slides it brings.

Click to expand...

The most important aspect in RPGs for me is not the ending slides but the ability to make my own choices as I progress through the game/story, which happened to be NV's strongest aspect.

I take it you don't like early cRPG and their ancestors the roguelikes much ?

The reasons are explained. The chip is more important to the leaders of the factions than the fact that you killed a few of their soldiers.

A few ? they are willing to forgive you for much more than a few, and key men from the legion like Vulpes Inculta for that matter. He's the one who should be contacting you when you first hit vegas but if you killed him in Nipton someone else will take his place.
As for the importance of the chip, that has nothing to do with you. The only man that should have a need for you is House since he's got to have someone he can trust and put on a leash. You're just a courrier. Benny thought he killed you and you've been rescued by a Securitron, not because of your own talents. There is no reason why the Legion should take an interest in having you as an ally, or the NCR for that matter.

Ruprekt · Nov 24, 2010

The game is definitely much to easy at the normal difficulty setting.

peanuts · Nov 24, 2010

Lumpy said:
LameNinja said:

So NV is officially the next good mainstream cRPG after MotB?

Click to expand...

Except MotB's combat was reasonably fun and challenging.
New Vegas sounds like another KotOR 2/VtMB - is it? From the reviews the non-combat interactions sounds like it's mostly about avoiding combat - so it includes little gameplay - and since the combat is so easy anyway, what's the point?

ur an idiot lol

baronjohn · Nov 24, 2010

The caesar does explain that he strongly admires the courier's ability to get things done and that he wants him to work for the legion and the courier is after all in a unique position to help him. It would make sense that he would ignore that the courier killed some stupid ex-tribals that were in his way.

Vault Dweller · Nov 24, 2010

Relay said:
Vault Dweller said:

Relay said:

You seem to be a guy who mostly enjoys RPGs for the ending slides it brings.

Click to expand...

The most important aspect in RPGs for me is not the ending slides but the ability to make my own choices as I progress through the game/story, which happened to be NV's strongest aspect.

Click to expand...

I take it you don't like early cRPG and their ancestors the roguelikes much ?

I do.

"The most important" doesn't mean "I refuse to play a game unless it's loaded with meaningful choices".

A few ? they are willing to forgive you for much more than a few, and key men from the legion like Vulpes Inculta for that matter. He's the one who should be contacting you when you first hit vegas but if you killed him in Nipton someone else will take his place.

As regretful as their losses are, the chip is more important because it's important to the Legion's enemies. If the Strip's army is upgraded, the Legion will lose a lot more than the men you killed.

As for the importance of the chip, that has nothing to do with you. The only man that should have a need for you is House since he's got to have someone he can trust and put on a leash. You're just a courrier.

A courier with the chip. Not to mention your resourcefulness and the above mentioned ability to get things done.

Derper · Nov 25, 2010

Vault Dweller said:
POOPOO MCBUMFACE said:

In some ways, it really does even put the originals to shame; the faction interplay and (sometimes) quest design are done better than I've seen in almost any game I can name. Buy it.

Click to expand...

What the admiral says.

In some ways, it puts an ancient game to shame? Wow. Faction interplay and sometimes quest design are better?
:thumbsup:

Darwin was right!

Vault Dweller · Nov 25, 2010

"The faction interplay and (sometimes) quest design are done better than I've seen in almost any game I can name"

Clockwork Knight · Nov 25, 2010

A 1997 game is ancient now?

Sisay · Nov 25, 2010

Geneforge.

CrimHead · Nov 25, 2010

I haven't even finished New Vegas

In fact, I quit playing it 15 hours in and started replaying a bunch of shit I've beaten a thousand times before

How does this make you feel Obsidian

Clockwork Knight · Nov 25, 2010

CrimHead said:
How does this make you feel Obsidian

Humanity has risen! · Nov 25, 2010

What's that stuff about it being nonsensical for the NCR to establish a democracy from the get go? People had lived democratically for a few centuries. It makes sense that those ideals would've survived and everyone didn't just want to rule the world like some nihilistic twat.

DefJam101 · Nov 25, 2010

Vault Dweller said:
ghostdog said:

He forgot to mention that obsidian took a crappy engine and made it even crappier. Unfortunately, I can't experience all that good stuff VD mentions, because of the technical clusterfuck NV is. What started as frequent crashes, evolved into computer locking up and resetting after the awesome 2nd update/patch. "Your system has recovered from a serious error" ...I haven't had this kind of shit for ages and thankfully NV came to remind me of it.

Click to expand...

The game was barely playable on my computer, freezing every 15-20 min (had to do full restart every time which is loads of fun). So, I raged like a newfag at first, then tweaked the ini files and didn't have a single issue ever since.

http://filenetworks.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... ezing.html
^ very good guide.

Hasn't worked for me. Numerous BSODs, one "so bad" that I couldn't even boot outside of safe mode until I used system restore.

Two Worlds 2 is fun in the meantime, though.

DefJam101 · Nov 25, 2010

Lumpy said:
LameNinja said:

So NV is officially the next good mainstream cRPG after MotB?

Click to expand...

Except MotB's combat was reasonably fun and challenging.

oh god no

Havoc · Nov 25, 2010

Humanity has risen! said:
What's that stuff about it being nonsensical for the NCR to establish a democracy from the get go? People had lived democratically for a few centuries. It makes sense that those ideals would've survived and everyone didn't just want to rule the world like some nihilistic twat.

Because democracy has failed as a system, like it is now?

Derper · Nov 25, 2010

baronjohn · Nov 25, 2010

Democracy is fine, it's just the corporate influence that's the problem. Actually it's kind of odd that NV didn't touch on this. I guess marketing decided against it.

Havoc · Nov 25, 2010

baronjohn said:
Democracy is fine, it's just the corporate influence that's the problem. Actually it's kind of odd that NV didn't touch on this. I guess marketing decided against it.

It did... even in Fallout 2. Brahmin barons.

Elwro · Nov 25, 2010

None of the published fixes work for me. I have to play the game in a faux-windowed-mode with no AA. It works flawlessly then. The minute I turn on AA or full screen, it begins to crash.

Still, a lovely game. I haven't finished it yet. Will certainly replay it.

ghostdog · Nov 25, 2010

DefJam101 said:
Vault Dweller said:

ghostdog said:

He forgot to mention that obsidian took a crappy engine and made it even crappier. Unfortunately, I can't experience all that good stuff VD mentions, because of the technical clusterfuck NV is. What started as frequent crashes, evolved into computer locking up and resetting after the awesome 2nd update/patch. "Your system has recovered from a serious error" ...I haven't had this kind of shit for ages and thankfully NV came to remind me of it.

Click to expand...

The game was barely playable on my computer, freezing every 15-20 min (had to do full restart every time which is loads of fun). So, I raged like a newfag at first, then tweaked the ini files and didn't have a single issue ever since.

http://filenetworks.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... ezing.html
^ very good guide.

Click to expand...

Hasn't worked for me. Numerous BSODs, one "so bad" that I couldn't even boot outside of safe mode until I used system restore.
.

I found the two main sources of my crashes :

1) If you're using the fixed d3d9.dll for better performance and have installed the updates, remove it instantly, it's not compatible. This was what was causing the horrendous BSODs for me.

2) I resolved the issue of the very frequent crashes by disabling AA. It seems the engine cannot into anti-aliasing. Still get some crashes here and there, but not so frequent.

Now, as far as the actual game goes, sure, the writing is much better than FO3 , but so far I'm not overly impressed by the gameplay. Combat is still the usual FO3 crap and it takes up most of your time. Textures are ugly and animations are horrendous. Except for some well done loading screens, art direction is abysmal. The few quests I've seen so far are ok, but nothing overly interesting. Admittedly, I'm not many hours into the game, so I hope things will get better further on.

VD's New Vegas review is up at NMA

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