Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

I Was More Than a Fan: Sol Invictus tells all

Gragt

Gragt

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,864,860
Location
Dans Ton Cul
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
I agree that it's a different kind of press but it isn't immune to the practice of giving gifts in order to get a more favourable article. I talked to a journalist who gave a lecture during my studies and he told us that he as well as some of his colleagues got offered various things, ranging from a good dinner to a luxurious trip, in order to sway them. They were never asked anything explicitely, and certainly not to lie, but it was hinted that it would be nice if they didn't forget the generosity of their host. That can be translated in many ways, like how you can easily cover some facts with an emotional coating — to wich some people might react far more than objective facts. No real penalty if one of them went against it but he might not be offered the same thing later.

Given that the video game press doesn't have high standards, it's not hard to imagine that this type of bribery can be even more effective.

Edit: this is of course some soft way of influencing journalists, else as Blackadder mentionned the pressure of advertisement is a more aggressive method.
 
Murk

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
eh, if they paid for the hotel and trip expenses then its not all bad.

but lets be real, rex is just trying to make himself sound cooler than he is.

n6678116011765431981pt4.jpg
 
BLOBERT

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
Patron
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
4,250
Location
BRO
Codex 2012
BROS ONLT CONSOLETARDS ARE HORRIBLE FANBOUYS THERE ARENT LEGIONS OF SNIUVELLING PC FANBOYS WRITING LOVENOTS/STALKER EMAIL TO AVELLONE ABOUT TORMENT AND HOW FAG PROTOCOL SUCKED LOLLOLOLOLOLOL PC FANBOYS ARE SO MUCH MORE MATURE LOLOLOL FUCKING RETARDS
 
Cimmerian Nights

Cimmerian Nights

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
428
Location
The Roche Motel
Elhoim said:
Cimmerian Nights said:
Speak No Evil or Be Banned
Click to expand...

This would be pretty interesting if applied:

Denis feels like the videogame industry needs to move to a new standard for showing titles. He says that we need to let Developers finish a game and sit on them for several months to a year before releasing them. During that time the press can be shown previews, minor development issues could continue, and there will never be any problems with enforcing the “rules” I mentioned above.

Unless Developers and Publishers want to get into the business of forcing the press to sign agreements to stay positive about every preview build they show us, they need to let the press cover the games the way they see it. If that is not good enough or if the game is not far enough along, they should let it continue in development until it is ready for a showing. As it stands now, larger Publications, whether they are online or print, are given preferential treatment with early, exclusive showings of games because they are being forced to abide by the “above rules.”
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That approach would satisfy so many interests, except ultimately what drives the publishers is market driven deadlines - like having the game on the shelves prior to Christmas season or making an appearance at E3 or whatever. And they are dictating the terms of release, they dictate the dissemination of information.

Unfortunately, I don't see what motivation they have to change when they deal with such a pliable group as the gaming media. Whether the game is half-baked or not, they seem to have enough mechanisms in place (be it shwag give-aways, "exclusive" screenshots or content, hiding behind the legalities of the NDA). As long as the reviewers tow the line and the consumers keep buying it, there's little leverage to affect change.
 
Monocause

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
The leverage for change is there. It's increasingly common for people to become disillusioned with game journalism and look at metacritics' or amazon's user reviews instead. Generally I think there's a switch to the word of mouth when it comes to games going on, just like with many other stuff. Seems like people are tired of aggressive full-of-BS marketing that's a norm these days.

I observe a trend that people don't believe the 'experts' as eagerly as they used to some time ago, with the internet facilitating a much more preferable form of exploring available wares by means of consulting them with people you know and trust.
 
Cimmerian Nights

Cimmerian Nights

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
428
Location
The Roche Motel
True, but, for every group of jaded gamers that got burned by some overhyped title and learned their lesson, there's also a group of new kids being introduced to the market for the first time that is not so discriminating.

Reminds me of Woody Wooderson in Dazed & Confused
That's what I love about those high school girls... I get older, they stay the same age.
Click to expand...
dazed-and-confused-sasha-jenson-matthew-matthew-mcconaughey-jason-london-wiley-wiggins-pic-2.jpg



As far as word of mouth. I tend to put more faith in word of mouth when it comes from someone who's opinion's I respect and who looks for the same things I do in a game. On the other hand, next time you're in a GameStop or whatever browsing around, play fly-on-the-wall and listen to some of the word-of-mouth that's coming from the avg. gamer. :shudders:
 
Vault Dweller

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Gragt said:
SuicideBunny said:
i faintly recall some fo3 pre-hype article detailing bethesda's (or was it pre mass effect and bioware?) bribery attempts and mentioning that they actually hire escorts.
Click to expand...

It is done in other industries, like cars, so why not video games?
Click to expand...
Wining and dining journalists is hardly anything new. I don't think it's a problem as while most adults would appreciate a nice dinner and a few drinks, they sure as fuck wouldn't "sell out" for it. It's more of an opportunity (for a manufacturer) to have a friendly chat in a non-office environment and explain the product better, answer a few questions, and correct any false assumptions, if any.

It's only a problem in the gaming industry where many journalists are, basically, kids. I mean, look at Rex. He's an experienced guy. He was covering games for awhile and he should have realized that they are flying him in and dining him to buy his opinion. That having a drink with someone doesn't make him your drinking buddy and the bestest friend. Yet he falls for it like a kid and does exactly what was expected of him.
 
Shannow

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Monocause said:
The leverage for change is there. It's increasingly common for people to become disillusioned with game journalism and look at metacritics' or amazon's user reviews instead. Generally I think there's a switch to the word of mouth when it comes to games going on, just like with many other stuff. Seems like people are tired of aggressive full-of-BS marketing that's a norm these days.

I observe a trend that people don't believe the 'experts' as eagerly as they used to some time ago, with the internet facilitating a much more preferable form of exploring available wares by means of consulting them with people you know and trust.
Click to expand...
"Noticing trends" is always nice and good, but in the end it's the clicks per day/sold copies that count. And as long as bullshit PR hype, aka professional reviews, sells, nothing will change. As for trusting experts: Some EU MPs just made a motion for an institution/think tank to counter the lobbyists of the financial industry because at the moment ALL financial "experts" are lobbyists working for banks... But the experts advising the EU Commission told the Comission that there is no need for that since they are already fair and balanced and that is that... :roll:
I don't see any general doubt in the population in the expertise of "experts". On the contrary, prove something is flawed, eg in the financial crisis, and the "experts" will simply try to overshout the critics, and the mainstream, being the sheeple they are, will continue siding with the "experts".../rant
And the problem with "independent user reviews" is that you can never know if one is planted or can be trusted.

Vault Dweller said:
Wining and dining journalists is hardly anything new. I don't think it's a problem as while most adults would appreciate a nice dinner and a few drinks, they sure as fuck wouldn't "sell out" for it. It's more of an opportunity (for a manufacturer) to have a friendly chat in a non-office environment and explain the product better, answer a few questions, and correct any false assumptions, if any.
Click to expand...
I may be a cynic, but I expect journalists to do more than regurgitate press releases and hype. There needs to be a clear distance between the journalist and his "topic". A critical distance. They shouldn't be buddies. If you think a less official setting gets you better answers, fine, but then pay for your own meal. It's very difficult to draw a line and see where influencing begins and impartiality ends. So it's best to not even start down that road. That goes for any kind of journalism.
I get sick when I see Merkel writing whiny letters to Liese Springer because her publishing house dares to back the SPD presidential candidate instead of the CDU candidate. Things like that only happen because journos lost all critical distance. And I very much doubt it's any different in the US.
 

Deleted Member 10432

Guest
Lebanese Warrior said:
Rex seems to think he is a lot bigger than he really is. I've never spoken to him personally, but what I can tell from the story is that he's pretty much a glorified fan of the game (??) and was before the game even came out (kind of lame).
Click to expand...

All fandoms have their feudal lords. And most of them are pretty similar in temperament.

You can see it all in his first sentence.

Hellgate: London was the Hindenburg of video games. It had majestic ambitions and equally great things were expected of it.
Click to expand...

Translation:
I am the great Critic, whose genius transcends the feeble minds of the proletariat.
Click to expand...

Or to put it differently, that gloss is an over-the-top stating of the bleeding obvious, more about showing off how great RE/SI is than it is about the game. The whole style is self-aggrandising. I mean, he wastes three sentences telling you the game didn't live up to the hype, before going on to the "my part in the tragedy" schtick.

Almost every second amateur hack on the web seems to try this bullshiit. I don't quite get why - it's tedious, unnecessarily periphrastic, and pompous beyond belief.

Don't know about you, I read news articles online for the news element, not for the half-arsed stylistic peregrinations of an egotistical semi-literate.

One of the good things about this plae is that at least the news articles are generally to the point.

[/rant]

And yea, they 'hooked him up' with a sweet setup for reasons that he apparently did not understand.
Click to expand...
It's not that unusual a tactic - or that subtle, really. IRL journalists themselves use it a hell of a lot.
 
Awor Szurkrarz

Awor Szurkrarz

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
It's fascinating how the press can't even earn enough money on selling the product to be a viable business.
 

Lingwe

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
519
Location
australia
"Having a degree in Journalism or English does not make anyone expert on video game (let alone in programing), unlike having a AD in Auto Mechanics does to talk about cars or a degree in Cinema to review a movie."

Find me someone who actually has an actual degree in journalism and not english or communications like all these 'game journalists' seem to have. Anyone worth their salt who is trying to become a journalist would be trying to get a job as an actual journalist, like you know, with a newspaper or television station, or a PR gig for some company or organisation. Only the very rejected of the rejects and those that realised that english degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on try to become 'professional game journalists'.
 
TNO

TNO

Augur
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
452
Location
UK
Err, wha? At my side of the pond, English degrees are by and large far more respected than journalism degrees. Vocational degrees which don't actually lead into a profession tend to be generally poorly respected.



On topic: It seems to me that if you want people to properly review the game, the revenue for the mags needs to come from the players, and not the publishers. After all, accurate reviews are always good things for the players. So long as people are happy to buy these magazines despite them being effectively elaborate advertising gimmicks, you can expect the gaming media to remain one of uniform praise.
 
Azrael the cat

Azrael the cat

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Cimmerian Nights said:
True, but, for every group of jaded gamers that got burned by some overhyped title and learned their lesson, there's also a group of new kids being introduced to the market for the first time that is not so discriminating.

Reminds me of Woody Wooderson in Dazed & Confused
That's what I love about those high school girls... I get older, they stay the same age.
Click to expand...
dazed-and-confused-sasha-jenson-matthew-matthew-mcconaughey-jason-london-wiley-wiggins-pic-2.jpg



As far as word of mouth. I tend to put more faith in word of mouth when it comes from someone who's opinion's I respect and who looks for the same things I do in a game. On the other hand, next time you're in a GameStop or whatever browsing around, play fly-on-the-wall and listen to some of the word-of-mouth that's coming from the avg. gamer. :shudders:
Click to expand...

Fortunately my local EB games is staffed by a bunch of jaded fucks who complain about all the folks coming in to buy 'that fucking Wii monstrosity'. Doesn't mean they won't fill their store with console games and take thfoeir cash, but if you ask them for something 'more PC oriented' they'll know their stuff. As opposed to the Harvey Norman accross the road, where asking the same question will get you pointed to FO3.
 
Clockwork Knight

Clockwork Knight

Arcane
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,064
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Azrael the cat said:
Fortunately my local EB games is staffed by a bunch of jaded fucks who complain about all the folks coming in to buy 'that fucking Wii monstrosity'. Doesn't mean they won't fill their store with console games and take thfoeir cash, but if you ask them for something 'more PC oriented' they'll know their stuff. As opposed to the Harvey Norman accross the road, where asking the same question will get you pointed to FO3.
Click to expand...

Hah, I thought people who work at game stores didn't give a shit about games, being buried in it all day.

Awor said:
WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THEIR EYES?!
Click to expand...

We call these "asians".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom