Forest Dweller
Smoking Dicks
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- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 12,210
There is no middle ground.
-
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Deus Ex
- Thread starter Forest Dweller
- Start date
No after my vote.
sportforredneck
Cipher
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2007
- Messages
- 7,715
Fucked up the equilibrium.
Carlos' Bitch1
Arcane
It is an RPG.
Once upon a time, there were many different types of RPG's, and by this I don't mean 'shit' and 'non-shit'. Perhaps many younger people wouldn't recognise this seeing as today there is such a small choice in this regard.
To me, Deus Ex, Witcher, etc are more of an RPG than Diablo clones. Others will disagree. That is fine, so long as people know there can be different RPG subsets. The main problem with today is that there are very few of these subsets being made, and one of the best subsets are basically dead apart from the odd indie RPG and ancient games in the abandonware catelogues (or owned).
Once upon a time, there were many different types of RPG's, and by this I don't mean 'shit' and 'non-shit'. Perhaps many younger people wouldn't recognise this seeing as today there is such a small choice in this regard.
To me, Deus Ex, Witcher, etc are more of an RPG than Diablo clones. Others will disagree. That is fine, so long as people know there can be different RPG subsets. The main problem with today is that there are very few of these subsets being made, and one of the best subsets are basically dead apart from the odd indie RPG and ancient games in the abandonware catelogues (or owned).
Genma:TheDestroyer
Arcane
There are games touted as RPGs released nowadays that don't even touch on near as many bases as Deus Ex. I'd say yes.
Edit: Where is your God of Balance now?
Edit: Where is your God of Balance now?
A well translated P&P RPG experience.
Read: includes character customization (Deus Ex is out), stratified combat and non-combat roles, non-linearity (out again), actions affect game world (known as C&C here), solid rule system, etc.
JC Denton is an experimental secret agent with a given background with given events, a given family, a given "personality" (well...he has none, to be honest), and you can't change that. The Vault Dweller, on the other hand, could have been an acrobat, a lawyer, or a brute for all we care: all we know is he was from Vault 13, a pretty laid-back restraint.
C&C is pretty weak and just pure flavor. No quests get canceled, and you get no important, quest-changing skill checks: it's just the way you move through maps that changes. You don't get the feeling you're a great hacker, spy, or marksman at any point during the game because you're never treated in any of those ways.
Mind you, all of that isn't bad, it's OK - I'd rather have Deus Ex than some epic-sounding vaporware that included all of the extra stuff that makesCRPGs Fallout so enthralling, but the experience nonetheless is satisfying.
Read: includes character customization (Deus Ex is out), stratified combat and non-combat roles, non-linearity (out again), actions affect game world (known as C&C here), solid rule system, etc.
JC Denton is an experimental secret agent with a given background with given events, a given family, a given "personality" (well...he has none, to be honest), and you can't change that. The Vault Dweller, on the other hand, could have been an acrobat, a lawyer, or a brute for all we care: all we know is he was from Vault 13, a pretty laid-back restraint.
C&C is pretty weak and just pure flavor. No quests get canceled, and you get no important, quest-changing skill checks: it's just the way you move through maps that changes. You don't get the feeling you're a great hacker, spy, or marksman at any point during the game because you're never treated in any of those ways.
Mind you, all of that isn't bad, it's OK - I'd rather have Deus Ex than some epic-sounding vaporware that included all of the extra stuff that makes
Carlos' Bitch1
Arcane
\1eyedking said:
Opening up a can of worms are we?
I have seen great P&P games. I have also seen games where the entire thing is made up of either a) rulesters that spend most of the session arguing about some obscure rule b) LARPing sessions where people mainly just talk shit, don't go anywhere or do anything, etc. and so on.
If we go by "well translated P&P RPG experience" then the new rubbish is just as valid as the old school games going by the ridiculously different P&P games out there.
In any case, there is no singular definition of a CRPG. The easiest way for me is by comparing it to classics of the genre and take it from there. Deus Ex would fall into a similar area to Ultima Underworld, first person - real time action RPG's.
Carlos' Bitch1
Arcane
1eyedking said:
Ah yes, you could see what was coming....
In any case, you don't have many games to choose from then going by your criteria.
Deus Ex has character customisation. More so than Ultima games I might add. As for linearity, again it has no more linearity than a large amount of old, or new CRPG's. We would need to take out a LOT of old, and new games previously lauded as CRPG's if Deus Ex was to be shafted out of the genre.
I only consider Fallout and Arcanum to be true RPGs, the former being among the greatest games I played and the latter among the mediocre ones (but not bad nor worst, though).
A well-translated P&P RPG experience is that, what a P&P RPG experience should be, but on computer. There's a DM and a campaign (the game's script), a ruleset (designed/adopted by the developers), and a player (who controls one or vaarious characters). During said campaign the player can do as he wishes: he can slaughter whomever he meets (if he can), choose to deviate from the main quest and follow some menial side stuff for a while, explore the world openly and get to know different locations, design a character with a lot of freedom during the process, flesh out his character's personality throughout the game, and affect the world he/she interacts with.
You can't do those in Deus Ex. Fallout and Arcanum, on the other hand, did all of that commendably well, except Arcanum's quality was abysmal in the combat, ruleset, story (not to be confused with atmosphere and setting), and dungeon design departments.
PS/edit: And yes, I consider a game like Oblivion more of an RPG than Deus Ex. You can do most of the stuff I mentioned above though it's as if the DM were incredibly retarded with a campaign & ruleset of the worst quality. C&C is on par (flavory flavor) and so is the story's linearity. The story itself, however, and the atmosphere, writing, and "dungeoneering" are so much in favor of Deus Ex it's not even funny.
A well-translated P&P RPG experience is that, what a P&P RPG experience should be, but on computer. There's a DM and a campaign (the game's script), a ruleset (designed/adopted by the developers), and a player (who controls one or vaarious characters). During said campaign the player can do as he wishes: he can slaughter whomever he meets (if he can), choose to deviate from the main quest and follow some menial side stuff for a while, explore the world openly and get to know different locations, design a character with a lot of freedom during the process, flesh out his character's personality throughout the game, and affect the world he/she interacts with.
You can't do those in Deus Ex. Fallout and Arcanum, on the other hand, did all of that commendably well, except Arcanum's quality was abysmal in the combat, ruleset, story (not to be confused with atmosphere and setting), and dungeon design departments.
PS/edit: And yes, I consider a game like Oblivion more of an RPG than Deus Ex. You can do most of the stuff I mentioned above though it's as if the DM were incredibly retarded with a campaign & ruleset of the worst quality. C&C is on par (flavory flavor) and so is the story's linearity. The story itself, however, and the atmosphere, writing, and "dungeoneering" are so much in favor of Deus Ex it's not even funny.
gothemasticator
Scholar
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2008
- Messages
- 121
I vote no. I don't agree entirely with 1eyedking, but his posts in this thread constitute a more coherent and usable definition of rpg than I've seen on this forum. Vince has interesting things to say, but he gets bogged down in sub-genres and using a whole lot of words.
racofer
Thread Incliner
Not sure about Deus Ex, but Desu Ex surely qualifies as one.
Hory
Erudite
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2003
- Messages
- 3,002
I know that a consoletard might have a hard time considering the nuances between True and False, but could we, at least, get over the binary cataloguing of games? It belongs to multiple genres, to various degrees. I'll just vote to get the poll to 50% so that it doesn't have any fail results.
Forest Dweller
Smoking Dicks
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 12,210
What does your heart tell you?relootz said:
Voted RPG. So is System Shock II.
Suck it fags.
Suck it fags.
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
Voted no because it isn't isometric, has no grid movement and no turn based
sorry
sorry
MetalCraze
Arcane
Not RPG but gut.
gothemasticator
Scholar
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2008
- Messages
- 121
Eh, it's just what half of the codex says anyway - just without the swearing and anime pics.Elzair said:
Bottom line - If I don't spend a lot of time in the inventory screen, it's not a crpg.
Twinkle
Liturgist
My dear weaboos, it's either "do sex" or "day of sex".
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