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Poll time! Why do you like Fallout so much?
- Thread starter Vault Dweller
- Start date
SCO
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So its a unfair juxtaposition. But the fact remains that the AI is bad - not that i blame them - the game had (has?) the potential to be much more tactical if say, the enemies were aware of cover.
(This applies to JA2 too)
Comparing the combat to the rest of the game, it is just not revolutionary like the quests and interconnected quests were.
For example i think that KotC is much more impressive in combat AI. A question of priorities and experience and time.
(This applies to JA2 too)
Comparing the combat to the rest of the game, it is just not revolutionary like the quests and interconnected quests were.
For example i think that KotC is much more impressive in combat AI. A question of priorities and experience and time.
Awor Szurkrarz
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Tons of spells, special abilities, etc. all of that is a part of the combat.Black said:
RPGs often have very complex combat systems which at the same time happen to be retarded and unrealistic.
It's not complexity that prevents the implementation of JA2-like combat system in cRPGs (actually, GURPS Fallout combat system would be closer to JA2 than to SPECIAL) but the myth that semi-realistic cRPG wouldn't be fun.
Jim Cojones
Prophet
Covers, stances, sound based info, great fog of war system, flashes giving away your directions while shooting, special equipment, camouflage, different ammo types, scale of battles, the fact that even a single mistake can make you lose a merc, equipment condition affecting it's performance, mercs' energy level, wounds and equipment weight affecting their performance, health system requiring bandaging and taking time to heal wounds, having stamina and health as different stats, bleeding, grenades and heavy weapons having it's certain uses instead of being just uberweapons, different ammo types, additional economic/strategic layer, enemies with different AI levels, inventory system, projectiles trajectory calculations including material penetration, weather and night/day cycle drastically affecting combat, enemies using hostages, alarms, enemies' leaders being able to inform about your coordinates via radio, destructive environment, suppression fire, interruptions, action points.Awor Szurkrarz said:
Awor Szurkrarz
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Oh. I see.
Still, many cRPGs could have all these basic features and some more if their designers would use some battle accounts and battle statistics as their inspiration instead of inventing bizarre systems with a shitload of skills, effects, abilities, items and various interactions of them, based on premise that games shouldn't be based on reality "because they are games".
Still, many cRPGs could have all these basic features and some more if their designers would use some battle accounts and battle statistics as their inspiration instead of inventing bizarre systems with a shitload of skills, effects, abilities, items and various interactions of them, based on premise that games shouldn't be based on reality "because they are games".
Gay-Lussac
Arcane
Black said:
So you agree with "BG2 was broken than JA2"
Man I know repeating yourself can be tiring but at least make some sense with your statements
Awor Szurkrarz
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In Fallout 1 it matters because you couldn't use one the same "bullets" for 10mm Pistol, Desert Eagle, Minigun and Hunting Rifle.Tails said:
Emotional Vampire
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Tails said:
1. This wasn't even his point
2. No and no
Emotional Vampire
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It's not a bug, it's just bullshit stats. AP ammo gets a small -%DR bonus but it does half the damage. JHP gets small +%DR penalty but it does double damage(so FOUR times as much as AP).
The %DR difference will never make up for the damage nerf, plain and simple.
The %DR difference will never make up for the damage nerf, plain and simple.
Kaanyrvhok
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Sodomy said:Or you could stop being a lazy, useless douchebag and record the clues that you get yourself. Paper and a pen or pencil are not that expensive, and, since you're posting with mostly correct grammar and spelling, I can assume that you have basic literacy skills.
Another sign of the- the new-kodex needs an in-game journal to like a game... when none of the classics from the Origin/SSI/SirTech era had one.
If a game already has a journal which FO did then it should record relevant info. If it didn't have one then I would agree with you.
I dont know what you mean about the SSI era all of the Goldbox games had journals and they were good reads. I'm digging Arcanum's journal so far. I see no point in dumping them.
Sodomy
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Eye of the Beholder trilogy, DS:SL. Probably DS:WotR as well, although I've never played that one. Also, when I made the post, I was under the impression that Dungeon Master was SSI (after looking that up, I've learned otherwise).
None had journals.
Because they dumb down games in such a way that it takes the fun out of exploration?
Kaanyrvhok said:
The Goldbox games had fucking offline journals containing ingame texts which were too big to fit into memory (and to prevent removing nothing from inventory). How the fuck is that in any way, shape or form connected to ingame "journals" of today? You recorded the rest of my words as a journal entry #52, refer to the book to read it.
Might & Magic 3+ were probably the first RPGs to record ingame clues on your quests, findings and shit.
Kaanyrvhok
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Sodomy said:
None of what had journals? I never played a GB game that didnt have one. Granted they were external but they were well done, included little entries for tavern rumors and served their purpose.
If they are well written they add to the game. Pool of Radiance's journal was written from the point of view of a wise party member. It was about we instead of I. Arcanum's int based journal adds to the game too.
Kaanyrvhok
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mondblut said:Kaanyrvhok said:
The Goldbox games had fucking offline journals containing ingame texts which were too big to fit into memory (and to prevent removing nothing from inventory). How the fuck is that in any way, shape or form connected to ingame "journals" of today? You recorded the rest of my words as a journal entry #52, refer to the book to read it.
How is it not? A journal is a journal. A game without a journal is a game that provides a blank notepad. I didn't have to write down extra stuff in GB games. The journal did its job. My point was that in FO I should have written stuff down but the game had a journal so I gave it the benefit of the doubt.
Jim Cojones
Prophet
No, it wasn't written from anyone's point of view. It was mostly something like:Kaanyrvhok said:
"You find a torn note: [content of a document]"
There was no character's comments, just an exact description of what did happen in the gameworld. It was as much of a journal as any text you are presented in any game. The only difference was that it was outside of the game. But it was even more difficult to keep tracking events with it than with a journal from Fallout because the notes were spread across the book so it was close impossible to find anything you did not remember. Especially if you wanted to avoid being spoiled by reading a piece of text you were not supposed to know yet.
The game even has some moments when you are given a word you have to remember and tell somebody else but it is not listed in adventurers' journal.
Kaanyrvhok said:
A journal that is a topic here is a vehicle for computer-assisted tracking of acquired ingame information.
A "journal" in GB games (and some other contemporaries) is a collection of ingame texts moved out from the game in order to save on space and to harass pirates, scattered in random order, mixed with faux entries to discourage reading ahead and not intended to be accessed other than when the game refers you to a specific entry.
If you can't see a difference, you could just as well put a Dungeon Master disk on a "National Geographic" issue and pretend it has a "journal" too.
Its job it did, but tracking acquired information it was not. I commend on your brilliant memory though, few of us would keep in memory that a map of Someother is a journal entry #132 and a conversation with mr. Whoeverelse containing a vital clue is an entry #76 without writing it down.
Kaanyrvhok
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mondblut said:
I understand the difference but do you understand that its irrelevant to what I was talking about. My point was that games should have journals. Storing information was just the reason at hand but I could give a few more reasons and site GB games as examples.
Its job it did, but tracking acquired information it was not. I commend on your brilliant memory though, few of us would keep in memory that a map of Someother is a journal entry #132 and a conversation with mr. Whoeverelse containing a vital clue is an entry #76 without writing it down.
There was no reason to ever write anything down because all you had to do was remember the topic and thats if you didnt remember enough of the actual message. I reread stuff for the entertainment value and the lore not because I needed clues. You never really had to play detective like you did in FO. You did you might have to circle something because everything was out of order but at least it was there. In FO the journal was cherry picked. Some relevant info was included some wasn't.
I would rather have no journal at all than a half ass journal. You can not use GB games as an example of a game without a journal just because they dueled as codex's and in some cases dialog.
Awor Szurkrarz
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Fo doesn't have a journal. It has a quest list.
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