Company News Reynolds gives the company line

[taks]

he shall be taught the way. of course, with kids these days...

mark

 

[triCritical]

]...Theseus' ship ...

It's a different ship, imo.

Do you think there exists a point in which the ship ceases to be Theseus' ship, or do you imagine that the process is fuzzy-like?

That is a good point? Because if their is one point then that would be like assigning particular attributes and saying this is what makes the ship the ship. The same with a car, if one suggest that a car is a car because of its an engine and suspension, then that would suggest that all the other parts are immaterial.

I think as it applies to the ship, that it is different in a fuzzy sort of way. The best example i have is my computer, which is like a theseus' ship. If I change a harddrive, CPU, or motherboard I was consider that a major change in identy followed by a case change. OTOH, if I change a CD player, or floppy drive not much of the PC's identity has changed. It really is fuzzy, but I can assure you that the PC I have now which is about two complete cycles through its first build 3 years ago is not the same PC. :D

 

[Human Shield]

Black Isle is RPG division
Black Isle loses RPG maker people, rest is moved to console division
Black Isle as a division is gone
Black Isle name is kept to sell new console games by other divisions and random former members of Black Isle.

seankreynolds

the only reason these cuts were made was because the company couldn't support that many staffers for as long as it would take to finish Van Buren. If Interplay had the money, to the best of my knowledge (and given, I don't know much about most of the managers) they would have continued supporting Van Buren. They _were_ impressed with the demo, and said so, especially given the circumstances around its development (basically, the VB team continued to work its ass off without any direct supervision from upper management for several months, and produced a great demo

They choose to support FO:BOS and now they will suffer.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Well, they deserve the consequences. And I think we can all agree that they have it coming.

 

[taks]

Well, they deserve the consequences. And I think we can all agree that they have it coming.

caen and molitor deserve the consequences... i don't think the same can be said for the employees at their mercy... IMO, it is coming, it just may take a while for iply to stop kicking.

mark

 

[Azael]

Seems more like an excercise in semantics to me. BIS might technically still be alive, but the chances of them developing a game that their old fanbase is interested in is slim to none in the near future, so in that sense they are gone. I'd say a company or a division of a company is a bit trickier than a ship though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you think there exists a point in which the ship ceases to be Theseus' ship, or do you imagine that the process is fuzzy-like?

I'd say there is a point when new parts/upgrades cease to play supporting role and become a foundation of a new design.

given that neither you nor i work there and all else we have to go on is the word of ex-employees, likely a little disgruntled, i'd say there's a fair chance he's right.

That would have made perfect sense if they didn't start working on FOBOS 2 according to rumors of course. Just like when they chose to pay for the console DnD license instead of the PC license. Then we have some very questionable money transfers, etc. The first question when people complain about the lack of money is to see where the money went.

do agree, however, it is a different ship. but as well, all things revolve.... change is a constant, and to think otherwise is foolish and shortsighted

Of course, nothing is constant, the ship is constantly evolving, but there are relative moments of peace between the shifts

That said, one final thought, whether we like it or not, BIS is very much alive

Ok, let's try this from different angle. So, BIS is alive, what should happen for you to believe that BIS is dead? Official press-release? UN resolution?

 

[taks]

That would have made perfect sense if they didn't start working on FOBOS 2 according to rumors of course.

as has been noted by sean, console teams are much smaller and in this case MUCH cheaper (barring up-front costs for development stations, which they presumably already have). from what i understand, FOBOS2 is mostly just the second half of the original FOBOS1... they ripped it in half to make more money so it's development is probably even cheaper than usual (i can't verify that, however).

Just like when they chose to pay for the console DnD license instead of the PC license. Then we have some very questionable money transfers, etc. The first question when people complain about the lack of money is to see where the money went.

i never argued with why they got to the point they did... i think mismanagement is certainly key here. my only contention is that once they got there, their possible only out was to axe the more expensive PC development plans. in a perfect world, they would not have screwed up the D&D license nor forced IWD2 out the door before it was ready, etc., etc., etc. i don't argue they fucked up. that much is very clear.

mark

 

[taks]

but there are relative moments of peace between the shifts

hehe, i wish that were the case in my life

mark

 

[Sol Invictus]

It hardly matters if BIS is still 'alive' or if it is 'dead'. It ultimately comes down to whether or not we care about what happens to BIS at this point. Most of us do not care about it so whether it remains alive to produce poor console games is unimportant to us because the BIS that we did care about exists no longer. For those of us who cared about what BIS did, mostly cared about what they did as a studio, or as a collection of developers.

Did anyone really actually care about the BIS name? I hardly think that anyone would be so foolish to place more emphasis on a name than on the heart of the subject, but people manage to surprise me with their idiocy time and time again.

 

[Dhruin]

as has been noted by sean, console teams are much smaller and in this case MUCH cheaper (barring up-front costs for development stations, which they presumably already have).

No doubt this is the case for Iplay's current ripped-in-half based-on-the-Snowblind-engine console game but it surely isn't an absolute. Bioware has 50 people on Jade Empire which will expand to 70. A hell of a lot more than VB needed.

 

[Volourn]

I didn't know Sherriff was posting in this thread... Weird... I'll wait 'til my buddy VD returns to make an on topic post response.

That is all. :twisted:

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Actually, it is my belief that BIS is now undead and must be hunted down like the flesh eating zombies that they are!

Oh... damn.... I've been playing too much Resident Evil again.





I hate when that happens.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

keep in mind, i think iply bungled a TON of things leading up to the release of those 17 employees. they certainly screwed the pooch and people's lives were severely affected as a result. if it weren't for the fact that caen and molitor (er, titus) has 72% of iply stock, i guarantee they would have been forced out by now for gross misconduct.

Both of these are true. Herve Caen and crew are totally inept. The only thing keeping them in power is because they own enough shares to ensure they're in power. Herve's also crooked, as we've seen from him diverting lots of money from Interplay to Titus in order to pay off Titus's foul ups.

I still think losing the BG for the PC license in favor of extending the BG:DA license three more years has to be the biggest fuck up in game industry history.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Herve and crew will get what's coming to them and I guarantee you it will be all over the internet the minute it happens. I will just point at my monitor and laugh.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Oh, how I only wish it were today

 

[taks]

Bioware has 50 people on Jade Empire which will expand to 70. A hell of a lot more than VB needed.

isn't that also for the PC? of course, bioware now has enough of a name they are almost required to put in the extra effort. iply is in such a state that quick money makers are required.

mark

 

[Deathy]

I think one of the problems with BioWare is that they have too many cooks stirring the pot. If those are all bona-fide developers (read: not just dominated by an internal QA team), there is bound to be a lot of communication problems resulting in loss of direction in design and art, and technical issues with programming, and specifically in the design area, new ideas will not be tried out, as the amount of opposition to the new idea will grow in proportion to the size of the design team (New idea's are traditionally rejected in large groups).

Basically, I think this is one of the major problems with NWN. That and the fact that it was left cooking for too long.

 

[taks]

well, NWN wasn't just cooking too long, they changed the recipe too often. jade empire probably has 20 or so QA folk i wouldn't doubt... i also wouldn't doubt that not all of the 50 or 70 are focused entirely on jade empire. they may say there are 70 people working on a project to hype it up but that might count EVERYBODY that touches the game, even if they only spend an hour a day doing actual game related stuff. just look at the list of credits for any of IE games or the FOs... tons.

mark

 

[Dhruin]

Yeah...those numbers are Bio's own but who knows how they account for their staff. Bear in mind they have 170 staff - you'll find it hard to allocate all those people to projects if the teams aren't very big. Still, even if there's really only 20 full-timers (or whatever), my point is simply that Reynold's comment was too broad - console development isn't inherently cheaper unless you just churn out a crappy 10-hour game.

 

[taks]

i think they are inherently cheaper/smaller other than up-front costs and, remember, MOST console games ARE crappy 10-hour jobs the bio job is dual platform i think which may account for the extra folks.
mark

 

[Rosh]

given that neither you nor i work there and all else we have to go on is the word of ex-employees, likely a little disgruntled, i'd say there's a fair chance he's right.

That's why he can't seem to remember the names of people he's in the same division with. Yes, he's really clued in.

Let's also not forget the moron's little bit of reasoning about PayPal and Fallout 3.