Oblivion Expansion Interview

[suibhne]

No reviewer on the whole internet, according to Gamerankings, found the scaling to be a poor design decision.

That may have been true at the time, but some outlets have criticized it retroactively - e.g., GameSpy's account of why it awardded OOO "Mod of the Year". We're still at the point, less than a year later, that reviewers only criticize Oblivion in halting and schizophrenic passages, possibly not even aware of the implications of their own writing - but the historic revaluation of NWN's OC suggests that, after another year or so, everyone will recollect the game as bland and underwhelming.

 

[D]

An addon for Oblivion is like giving richard simmons hair extensions - it'll just make it even more gay. I have been suprised that OB is barely toleratable (as an adventure/exploration game) if you're using the unofficial oblivion patch, MMM and OOO all together - but just barely, as the skill system still sucks unrelentingly, as does the sealed off towns and the general kiddyness of the design.

Theoretically, if Bethesda was actually made up of the team whom made Arena and Daggerfall, Oblivion might of been at least a little special and given what was actually asked for - mainly, a more interactive world and better dialog options. Instead, Toddler and crew successfully just made a game that's about as complex and multi-levelled as super mario brothers - but only if the enemies all turn into bowser if you pick up a mushroom.

i find it amazing that they managed to make oblivion so much more boring and generic than morrowind was - gameworld design - wise. if i don't drink heavily while playing oblivion i feel like cutting my veins from the immense amounts of boredom the gameworld imposes on me.

I dunno, one of the things I liked about MW's gameworld design was the way I hadn't really seen it before - a mostly swamp and volcanic-ash covered island with a racial conflict that's probably a parellel to the American colonisation. Oblivion, on the other hand, is generic as hell - while Daggerfall might of sported deserts, swamps, mountains, etc, Oblivion is just pretty much a lump of grass with a bit of snow on the side.

 

[RK47]

...I gave all the add on a spin.
Horse armour: Not worth the trouble. If your horse is dead, just steal another one after fast-travelling to a nearby stable.

Tower & Hideout: When I was about to exit the imperial sewers at the start of the game, I immediately had 4-5 pop out windows telling me my distant relative left behind a deed to an abandoned crap for me to check out. Wow. THey deliver everwhere don't they. They even come with keys. MAGIC!

Knight of the 9: Completing the quest at lvl 4 I got a not so awesome armour that gets obsolete when I hit lvl 10. What a legendary Artifact!

Mehruze's razor does less damage than an elven sword I picked up from the store at lvl 6. Wow! Considering most daedra encounters at lvl 6-10 are nothing but a bunch of scamps and clannfear runts...they're mostly 1-2 hit affair. Again, what's the point :O

 

[denizsi]

Check this post from BlueDev (Is that Gavin Carter?).

A couple of points to hit upon:

1. On linearity in quests: I agree completely with what's been said. I'm not a fan of completely linear quests(though I've been guilty of designing more than a few). It's always better to have multiple paths to take, and having multiple endings is a lot of fun. Which leads to....
2. Multiple endings: Ack. I love them for side quests. I detest them for the Main Quest. I hope we never have another Dragon Break, no more Warps. I'd prefer a Main Quest that branches out in the middle and comes to a single ending, if only because it makes the lore a lot easier to handle.

Since when multiple paths = multiple end-games? Retarded.

Rpgs only started to interest me when i got freedom to decide the outcome of my quests and choose what should be my objectives in the game.

I'm in agreement. I'm completely behind the player having the freedom to decide the outcome of quests, write his own story, etc. And, I think we're ahead of 99% of the games out there when it comes to doing this. It doesn't mean we can't improve, though.

He must be saying that they are ahead of 99% of games which gives player the C&C by not giving them in O. That's only way his post computes.

In the same single post, he also answers to another post about railroaded quests which gives Fighters Guild quests as example, and BlueDev accepting the downside of railroading but trying to justify it with the quality of narrative. He doesn't seem to have any idea of what he's talking about or RPG design in general.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

In the same single post, he also answers to another post about railroaded quests which gives Fighters Guild quests as example, and BlueDev accepting the downside of railroading but trying to justify it with the quality of narrative. He doesn't seem to have any idea of what he's talking about or RPG design in general.

WHAT

 

[JarlFrank]

In the same single post, he also answers to another post about railroaded quests which gives Fighters Guild quests as example, and BlueDev accepting the downside of railroading but trying to justify it with the quality of narrative. He doesn't seem to have any idea of what he's talking about or RPG design in general.

WHAT

If only it was true...
But strangely most games which have non-linear quests with multiple paths and endings [like Arcanum, for example] have a much higher quality of narrative than Oblivion.
They should at least get a few decent writers.

 

[piydek]

the reason they don't percieve the horrible level scaling as a fault is because they approach oblivion from the viewpoint of it being a game whose sole purpose is to go anywhere, anytime, killing monsters with your shiny paladin sword.

As much as I love savaging Oblivion and revelling in Beth's mind-boggling design stupidity, it's only fair to point out that they're not only after an arcade experience for every little kiddie. I think they legitimately wanted to solve the game design challenge of offering a massive gameworld with dozens of hours of sidequests while simultaneously presenting a structured main quest narrative. Their solutions were imbecilic, but they probably think they're onto something - and it's probably easier for them to keep their heads in the sand re. their failure because the problem they were tackling is a legitimate design challenge with which many other games have wrestled.

well, you might be right, but if they were indeed NOT after an arcade game, a more "open" arcade game at that, then, apart from the scaling, i have no clue why absolutely everything in that game is so easy, so simple, so solvable at first attempt, so one-dimensional, so non-cerebral, what those damn mini - games are doing in it, why staffs are rocket launchers and magicka is filled back within seconds etc.

those things have nothing to do with the legitimate design problem you brought up, but do go hand in hand with the scaling, revealing the true intention of the game as being an arcade game where you run around and kill things IMO.

 

[Monica21]

Check this post from BlueDev (Is that Gavin Carter?).

BlueDev is Mark Nelson. kathode is Gavin Carter.

 

[JarlFrank]

Again, my fault. My goal with the FG was to make a bunch of quests that really catered to, well, fighters. To that end, the majority of the quests were designed as "go kill a bunch of things." It was a conscious choice for those to be the most straightforward quests in the game, catering to a certain archetype of player. Looking back, I'm not sure it was the right choice.

I hope he means it.
If they begin to see that their choices were bad, maybe they'll make better ones next time.

 

[piydek]

Again, my fault. My goal with the FG was to make a bunch of quests that really catered to, well, fighters. To that end, the majority of the quests were designed as "go kill a bunch of things." It was a conscious choice for those to be the most straightforward quests in the game, catering to a certain archetype of player. Looking back, I'm not sure it was the right choice.

I hope he means it.
If they begin to see that their choices were bad, maybe they'll make better ones next time.

it IS refreshing to see an honest admittance of one's own mistake from someone at bethesda's crew. but each time i see any of their thoughts on oblivion TODAY, after so much time has passed since the release, and when the mistakes have become so transparent and obvious that even todd howard could see them and perhaps even comprehend them, i usually see the exact same outrageous lies that they've been telling during pre-release period. it's hard to say what they really think about these issues. but, i'm afraid that in the end it doesn't even matter. what matters is $$$. and in that aspect oblivion is teh best game of the year and the best RPG evar! so, these ganja-induced outbursts of truthfulness don't give me much hope for their future projects.

 

[Pegultagol]

Rather than introducing new items, maybe an expansion pack that provides some semblance of roleplaying via new adventures would be nice. i agree on the $$$ part, even with their newfound retrospection and hindsight (i truly believe they know what they are doing, and are limited in more ways than they care for, which makes Oblivion hype deceitful), the formula or financial success strongly favors the status quo, of the original subpar Oblivion design spruced up in some other setting. when it comes to the next version of elder scrolls in the pipeline, a new graphics engine (DX10) will be touted. of course, the faults of oblivion will be admitted and be part of the PR jargon that would make me at least forget how it is even possible to improve on the rpg game of the year.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

Also, Bethesda felt it would be too confusing and difficult for the Xbox kiddies to buy passage on a ship/strider/portal/whatever.

Which is why they didn't have them do that In Morrowind, Right?


Glad to see we're past grade 4 , gentlemen.

 

[sheek]

Also, Bethesda felt it would be too confusing and difficult for the Xbox kiddies to buy passage on a ship/strider/portal/whatever.

Which is why they didn't have them do that In Morrowind, Right?


Glad to see we're past grade 4 , gentlemen.

Yeah they had it in Morrowind and that's what made them realize the how limited the brain of a TES fan was. Morrowind only got 80% or so, Oblivion got 95%. Obviously Bethesda were right about their target audience.

 

[Slith]

Which is why they didn't have them do that In Morrowind, Right?


Glad to see we're past grade 4 , gentlemen.

Don't think you're quite there yet.

 

[Twinfalls]

I'd expect this expansion to be at least decent, since the chief of design this time is Bruce Nesmith - who was I understand, one of the three main designers of Daggerfall (along with LeFay and Peterson). His work on Oblivion seems limited to designing and writing all of the Thieves Guild questline - unanimously regarded as the best of that game's quest sets. And he's only credited with a 'thankyou' for Morrowind, suggesting he can take no major blame for that gigantic piece of dismalness.

The pity here is that it seems Ted Peterson was not asked to contribute - which is a real shame given his sensibilities and quality of writing - not to mention his fondness for the whole Sheogorath thing.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'd expect this expansion to be at least decent, since the chief of design this time is Bruce Nesmith - who was I understand, one of the three main designers of Daggerfall (along with LeFay and Peterson). His work on Oblivion seems limited to designing and writing all of the Thieves Guild questline - unanimously regarded as the best of that game's quest sets. And he's only credited with a 'thankyou' for Morrowind, suggesting he can take no major blame for that gigantic piece of dismalness.

The pity here is that it seems Ted Peterson was not asked to contribute - which is a real shame given his sensibilities and quality of writing - not to mention his fondness for the whole Sheogorath thing.

Sounds good, very good. At least somebody who got some talent.
I like every news which make the hopes rise a bit.
Maybe he can make himself boss of Bethsoft somehow and then kick out all those involved in making the bad parts of Oblivion, only keep the ones who made good stuff, and then employ all the former members of Troika games...

 

[Ahzaruuk]

I'd expect this expansion to be at least decent, since the chief of design this time is Bruce Nesmith - who was I understand, one of the three main designers of Daggerfall (along with LeFay and Peterson). His work on Oblivion seems limited to designing and writing all of the Thieves Guild questline - unanimously regarded as the best of that game's quest sets. And he's only credited with a 'thankyou' for Morrowind, suggesting he can take no major blame for that gigantic piece of dismalness.

The pity here is that it seems Ted Peterson was not asked to contribute - which is a real shame given his sensibilities and quality of writing - not to mention his fondness for the whole Sheogorath thing.

Sounds good, very good. At least somebody who got some talent.
I like every news which make the hopes rise a bit.
Maybe he can make himself boss of Bethsoft somehow and then kick out all those involved in making the bad parts of Oblivion, only keep the ones who made good stuff, and then employ all the former members of Troika games...

...and while we're dreaming, I'd like a bottomless container of Ice-cream too.

But seriously, chances of that happening is practically nil.

 

[JarlFrank]

But seriously, chances of that happening is practically nil.

Yeah, that's why I meant it ironically.