New Silent Hill Announced

[Perkel]

SH3's problem is it's not Heather's story.

SH3 doesn't have any problems. Problems started with SH4 and mostly because they tried to adapt game to modern controls which "newsflash" destroyed ambience and theme. It would be completely fine entry if they would use old movement and camera scheme.

Every SH since 4 is trying to replicate rather than create which is why they can't be good games.

One of the reasons why shattered memories was good entry in SH series is precisely because it was not made to be SH game in first place. Developement team behind it wanted to make different game but their publisher acquired license and they were made to reform their game into SH game. So it was their game with SH theme bolted to it. At first I wasn't too keen on it when i played it on Wii (especially the chases) but it gradually grew on me and by the time it ended I realized that that whole thing was elaborate setup to play on SH fan expectations hence the name "Shattered Memories" IT's not just in-game reference but also real life reference to fan memories. Game played by someone completely new to SH genre would play entirely different than for old veteran of SH games like me. It was familiar story of SH1 that played around with that knowledge to surprise old fan.

The final twist of shattered memories story proves that this was NOT sh game. And yet by proving that it was not SH game with that final twist it proved it was SH game after all.

Playing Shattered Memories also taught me a lot about what makes SH game click. It is complicated mess of several factors and the story itself as much as praise it can get with something like SH2 is not actually that important. It is the surprise factor that make SH games tick. Ito's monsters were so good not because they were horrifying. They were so good because they surprised players. They were more interesting than scary. Pyramid head was scary but primarily it was puzzle for player to solve not the physical threat behind it to watch out for. Why hotel was flooded is core of SH theme not story, gameplay or characters. It is the mystery behind elements, the shadows rather than lights.

If you watch SH documentary you can take from it the surface details but if you watch it from this perspective you quickly realize why Ito designed their mosters like this, it wasn't fluke or "crafty" creation. IT was conscious choice. So were the stories involved, environments etc. I have no doubt that a lot of that stuff was something that was not understood well by creators themselves (as proven later by Siren series) but if there ever was something that can be called high art this was the thing.

TLDR: To create true SH game it requires more than just understanding some themes and being at the top of game dev game. It requires true creative spark between many avenues. The fact that there was a team that could do it 3 times in a row (with 4 one being damaged by outside factors) is something amazing in itself.

 

[Hell Swarm]

SH3 doesn't have any problems.

I pointed out the problems.

It requires true creative spark between many avenues.

Which SH3 lacks. It is very clearly a phoned in sequel compared to the first two.

 

[Perkel]

SH3 doesn't have any problems.

I pointed out the problems.

It requires true creative spark between many avenues.

Which SH3 lacks. It is very clearly a phoned in sequel compared to the first two.

SH3 is true SH game. It being sequel to SH1 has nothing to do with it being true SH game or not.

Also Shattered Memories was NOT remake of SH1. It plays with expectations of being SH1 remake but it is not remake of SH1. If you want to attach remake badge to it at all (which I advise against) if anything it was SH3 remake (i know this sounds weird but yeah).

 

[Hell Swarm]

SH3 is true SH game. It being sequel to SH1 has nothing to do with it being true SH game or not.

Being a direct sequel to 1 hurts the game tremendously and it doesn't even focus on Silent hill for a lot of it. Your mileage may vary but to me, Silent Hill 3 feels like a contractual game rather than a passion project of the first two. It has some of the coolest and most impressive set pieces of the franchise but it lacks a solid core. Heather just isn't likeable and she's not a fleshed out character. Which is a flaw of most of the silent hill games. The main characters are generally bland people being lead around by the nose and then out of no where a big reveal happens to flip the narrative on who's good/bad and that's about it.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I like the characters

 

[GamerCat_]

Lol @ Hellswarm and his "adult" emotions. As I've mentioned before, guilt is BY FAR the weakest human emotion. If this were not true the world would be a far better place. So even the deeper meaning and basis of the entire plot is fucking retarded. Lol. So very "adult". Know anyone that did a bad thing (we all have) and went into a psychotic spiral of guilt? Me neither. We're all ME ME ME by nature.

What the fuck 'bad' things have you ever done? Called someone a nigger? What do you know.

The guilt I was talking about wasn't James guilt you small brained waste of semen. Mary's guilt in being sick is something very rarely done well in games. The way most media portrays chronic illness or terminal illness is on par with women power bombing 300 pound men in action movies. Silent Hill handles Mary's guilt pitch perfect. She's not at fault for being ill (she can't help it) and James is not at fault either, but both of them have to suffer and feel guilty for something out of their control. James feels guilty he wants more from life than his dying wife can offer and ultimately makes a decision to end his and/or her suffering. While Mary feels guilt she's torturing her husband emotionally and neither of them can even speak to each other about it because both see the other is suffering enough already and doesn't want to share their pain and add to the pile on the other. It's an intensely intimate problem that's very hard to express in media because media thrives on big dramatic moments and lots of tears. While Mary's letter really breaks down how she feels and what she always needed to express but couldn't. This is something many seriously ill people struggle with and it's presented respectfully but also accurately.

The fundamental criticisms of Silent Hill 2 made in this thread stand unchallenged still. An emotionally heavy scenario is depicted. Yes. Nobody challenges that. But again, Hallmark Films are heavy. You charge "most media" with chronic illness as fundamentally unrealistic, missing the problem. Which is that even if this is true to the dynamics of the real situation, so what? Go watch Hallmark's greatest hits cultivated for your own tastes if realistic sentimentality porn is what you get off to.

Feeling guilty you stole something as a child or called someone a nigger (you shouldn't) is nothing like feeling you're a burden on the people you love through no fault of your own or any one else. You can always stop calling someone a nigger, but when you're put into a serious health situation you can't resolve and you're struggling to keep your head above water guilt becomes a completely different beast. You going "lol guilts for pussies" is exactly the point I was making about adult emotions. It's easy to be the internet tough guy laughing at others feeling guilty until you spend six months being unable to do anything but walk to the bathroom and back while you're taken care of by your family and know this is your life now and you will always be a burden holding them back. You will never be a whole person again, you will always hold everyone around you back unless you drop dead and also know if you dropped dead it would hurt them too. Feeling guilty you're alive and guilty if you wish you were dead and there's no one to blame, no monster to battle, no solution. You're just a fucked up cripple who leeches off everyone around you and you can't even convince them you're not worth wasting their time on because they care for you too much to give up on you.

At which point does this make the game good?

So yea. Silent hill 2 makes an absolute fucking joke of Silent Hill 3's zany Japanese occult bullshit.

How?

One is a story with multiple complex layers and stories relating to real world situations.

Yes, Silent Hill 3, as I've explained. You did read that post didn't you?

I can and have explained Silent Hill 1 and 3 in layers. What are the layers of Silent Hill 2? You've explained that it's about a couple who were dealing with sickness... AND THAT'S REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SERIOUS.

But where are the layers to this story? That's the critique. This is not a particularly layered or literary work. What layering exists in its multimedia aspects. It's saying the same thing from multiple angles. And I myself praise the game for such elements. My problem with it, as far as I have one, is more with people like you, who I believe do it a great disservice by trying to praise it on literary strength to the neglect of its actual strengths.

The other is a bitchy cunt fights monsters while every cut scene rants about stuff none of the games tell you shit about because it's all in guide books or wikis.

There are no secondary materials for Silent Hill 1 or 3 that I know of which elaborate upon what's going on. If my post seemed to be referring to such things you're mistaken.

Heather's 'revenge' is barely part of the overall story and despite Silent Hill 3 having some great set pieces, it's clearly the least interesting of the original 4 because it's the end of a trilogy of games and has no identity of it's own (SH1 sequel) and nothing original to bring to the table. Even SH4 is a better game than 3 is despite having more flaws because it's not just SH1 2 electric boogaloo.

Silent Hill 3 isn't really an end to a trilogy. It's a direct sequel to 1. And its identity is very strong. It's very aesthetically distinct among the four and an excellent expansion and elaboration upon everything Silent Hill 1 was doing.



And 'End of Small Sanctuary' remains my favourite thing to come out of Silent Hill.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Yes, Silent Hill 3, as I've explained. You did read that post didn't you?

No one reads your shit because you're a retarded pedo. I've explained this.

 

[Perkel]

SH3 is true SH game. It being sequel to SH1 has nothing to do with it being true SH game or not.

Being a direct sequel to 1 hurts the game tremendously and it doesn't even focus on Silent hill for a lot of it. Your mileage may vary but to me, Silent Hill 3 feels like a contractual game rather than a passion project of the first two. It has some of the coolest and most impressive set pieces of the franchise but it lacks a solid core. Heather just isn't likeable and she's not a fleshed out character. Which is a flaw of most of the silent hill games. The main characters are generally bland people being lead around by the nose and then out of no where a big reveal happens to flip the narrative on who's good/bad and that's about it.

That's the thing. Silent Hill is not fundamentally about Silent Hill that's the mistake most of the fans make when they try to nail down why Silent Hill series works so well. The basic story of Silent Hill is about a cult and their shenanigans. That would make great story for a horror game like initially SH1 was going to be but that wouldn't make SH what SH became. Hell almost all supernatural stuff is cult work behind the scenes in all of the games including SH2 which on surface has no cult work in it. The main story works at start and destination but the SH fans love is the journey between those points.

It is also the same mistake new developers make when they try to make new game in series and they always fail. That's why i made a point about shattered memories. Because it is a game in which you aren't going to silent hill, it doesn't even play like silent hill, it has story and a twist which openly states that this is not silent hill game and yet despite all of that, it is silent hill game more than any other attempts at making silent hill game.

Silent hill is:
It's the long staircase down from Historical Society or finding Maria talking to you in cell in SH2
It's Lisa trying to find anyone to cling to in SH1
It's that mirror room in SH3
It's realizing that psychotest you filled, wasn't filled by you but your daughter in SH: Shattered Memories.

Moments like that are core of what makes SH true SH game. It's the moment where you stop and think. None of those moments had to be in game and literally any other developer wouldn't do them and yet they exist.

And that's why it is so hard to make SH game, because is literally higher art, something you can't just make by following cook book and hiring best professionals. People who make it has to get onto higher level, above themselves and get that spark of creativity that helps them achieve that.
It's like Lynch movies. It's not about how it was made but about individual spark of creativity.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The basic story of Silent Hill is about a cult and their shenanigans.

But it isn't. This is the mistake you make. You think the cult matters because it's key to SH1 and 3's story but you then prove it doesn't later in your post.

Silent hill is:
It's the long staircase down from Historical Society or finding Maria talking to you in cell in SH2
It's Lisa trying to find anyone to cling to in SH1
It's that mirror room in SH3

The staircase and Maria don't involve the cult. They're totally stand alone experiences.

I can't remember Lisa well but even so you don't need the cult for what I remember of her character.

The mirror room is 100% one of the best parts of any silent hill but it also doesn't involve the cult in any way.

And that's why it is so hard to make SH game, because is literally higher art,

Silly took. You think defining things as art means anything. SH1 was the short bus for retarded devs who couldn't work with other people. A lot of it is stolen from other places (we both know where so we don't need to dig into it). Putting Silent Hill up as some great artistic piece of media falls apart the second you see Harry's animations. His run cycle makes him look like he has down syndrome and a limp. It's not high art, it's not even very well made for the most part but it's a good experience despite those things.

I know it's not a popular opinion but American Silent Hills aren't even that bad games and do represent silent hill quite well for the most part. They feel unnerving and the cast is equally as poorly voice acted/emotionally stunted as the Japanese ones. I've played a good chunk of all of them (yes, even book of memories) and I think they're underrated. You said Silent Hill is about being creative and taking risks and Origins does that with the mirror elements and many of the monsters are superior to some of the Japanese ones. I'm not looking for a silent hill game to be some high art master piece no other horror game can compete with. I'm looking for unsettling environments that slow burn tension and interesting monster designs and I think most of the American ones pull that off. Silent Hill 4 has by far the most unsettling environments and tension but it's too repetitive, but I can look past those flaws and say there's some real strengths here and I do the same with the American Silent Hills. I never had the attachment to the series name, just the quality of the games so I'm happy to have a half decent horror game. Hell I've read the fucking comics and despite being mostly toilet paper, I'm glad to have scene some ideas expressed in them I thought were an interesting use of the town. They are far from high art, but the idea of the town using a painter to lore other people in is fascinating to me in a way the cult just isn't.

 

[Morenatsu.]

No.

 

[Perkel]

You didn't understand what i wrote. The basic story of SH game is cult working its ways. Which is just basic plot device for any horror game. This cult works in any game (aside from Shattered Memories) including SH2.

If true SH game would be about just following that simple cult mojo then making SH game would be easy.

My point was that true SH game is about those moments which i listed that have nothing to do with cult, silent hill town itself, monsters, gameplay, plot, characters and so on.

 

[Ash]

This is something many seriously ill people struggle with and it's presented respectfully but also accurately.

Lol. No it isn't. Source: I am very familiar with the situation on a personal level. The entire premise of the game is absolutely retarded that only idiots think is deep. Imagine killing your wife, whom you supposedly love (proven by the fact he stays faithful & committed), because you're sexually frustrated and in a crap situation. He had at least four other options (right hand, side piece, divorce, suicide). The guy is a total fucking retard and mental case. Off this premise alone the plot is ludicrous & pathetic without factoring in the next part:

Guilt isn't an emotion worth a damn. Wake the hell up to the world around you, jesus there's a lot of dumb people here. People are narcissistic by nature. Everyone. Some more than others, but we're all self-serving to an intense degree. Guilt isn't about the self at its core, it's about the other, so it doesn't work like the other emotions, and not as it would in an ideal world to any meaningful degree. Guilt is no emotion worthy of penmanship and a story centerpiece on this level. Only people that don't understand human nature, have never had a relationship in their life (women are on average even more narcissistic) actually think this is a good story. The fact you think otherwise is BEYOND childish. How do you think Ghengis Khan and his army of 100,000 slept at night after murdering raping and pillaging millions of people? How do you think hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians gun each other down every day just because Putin demands it? The Mexican Cartel? Hitler and militarized Germany gassing kids? How do you think the upper echelons of every nation continue to function at the expense & exploitation of the lower half? They all sleep like babies. You have an absolutely retarded and child-like comprehension of human nature & emotion. Guilt. Isn't. Shit. I wish it were not true, again the world wouldn't be such a fucked up place if that weren't the case, but it is what it is. Guilt is felt by some yes, but not to any meaningful and driving degree that love, anger, despair etc are. Because those are about the self first and foremost. People will go to the ends of the earth for love (which is a self-serving emotion), they will suicide from despair. They will risk their freedom as a result of anger. But guilt? It barely motivates us beyond a passing thought here and there.

Silent Hill 2 is by far the number 1 pseudo-intellectual story in video games, pedestalized by retarded dweebs that dont understand the world they live in. For these two reasons, the ones gamercat mentioned, and then some.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

SH2 was okay. The problems came in when gamers put it on a pedestal, forgot the other games existed, and Konami tried to copy the premise over and over. Maybe turning Silent Hill into a demonic therapist could've worked in the right hands, but Konami fumbled it multiple times in a row. Now the demonic therapist angle is everywhere in horror games and SH2 no longer stands out except through nostalgia.

Trying to milk the franchise after the first four entries was destined for failure from the start. You can't make lightning strike twice. Forte doesn't even have any causal connection to the titular town, so now the brand name doesn't even make sense. It's become Resident Evil. Why is Resident Evil called that? Because it was referring to the mansion in the first game. How many of the other games make sense with the title? Maybe if you stretch it, but it's a meaningless trademark now.

Kylo Ren was right. When it comes to corporate-owned series, let the past die. Kill it if you have to. Keeping it on life support and puppeteering the braindead body around like a marionette is cruel and wasteful.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Lol. No it isn't. Source: I am very familiar with the situation on a personal level. The entire premise of the game is absolutely retarded that only idiots think is deep. Imagine killing your wife, whom you supposedly love (proven by the fact he stays faithful & committed), because you're sexually frustrated and in a crap situation. He had at least four other options (right hand, side piece, divorce, suicide). The guy is a total fucking retard and mental case. Off this premise alone the plot is ludicrous & pathetic without factoring in the next part:

The rest of your post is stupid and you don't even understand Silent Hill 2's story.

No where is it said James killed Mary because he couldn't masturbate or cheat on her. This is the exact layers I'm talking about with the story and why I'm positive you have no experience with this kind of thing. We don't know if James killed Mary out of pity/love or if he killed her out of selfishness. It's left up in the air and it's an important part of the story. We don't know James mental state before he killed Mary and we don't even know if Mary wanted him to do it or not. The letter would have to be written before she died and she may have asked him to for all we know. There is depth to the story unlike Silent hill 1 which is about being a cuck and Silent Hill 3 which is about a cuck dying and another dude's kid wanting revenge for it.

Hitler and militarized Germany gassing kids?

Oh it was a joke post. I see. You had me there for a second! Think of the 6 gorillion Silent Hills!

 

[Ash]

I'm positive you have no experience with this kind of thing.

Just shut the fuck up. I have experience with the EXACT same thing. Debilitating chronic pain is tragic beyond measure.

We don't know if James killed Mary out of pity/love or if he killed her out of selfishness.

EITHER WAY is absolutely retarded, morally reprehensible, insane, and completely unrelatable. Duh! Silent Hill 2 fanboyism, the definitive marker of an absolute retard.

Also, given the themes of the game heavily revolve around guilt & sexual degeneracy, it is very heavily implied that indeed was his motive...and also likely with a splash of pity too, but normal people don't just fucking murder people because you pity them, or because they're a bitch to you as they're constantly suffering. The game is so fucking dumb and infantile alongside its retarded comprehension of guilt, and James is just a creepy little weirdo. So you have a lame idiot unrelatable main character that deserves to be in his own personal retarded hell (which is the point, he deserves it, but it's not at all effective, deep, believable, intelligent or relatable), with guilt as a primary plot point for more than one character which...no, you don't understand reality and human nature. Whoever wrote this trash better stick to "cult shit".

So I looked it up. Different writer to the first game. Makes sense.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Just shut the fuck up. I have experience with the EXACT same thing. Debilitating chronic pain is tragic beyond measure.

Sure you do faggot. I'm literally writing first hand experience in my post there. Try using more reddit buzzwords and I'm sure you will convince people you're not an edgy teenager.

Also, given the themes of the game heavily revolve around guilt & sexual degeneracy, it is very heavily implied that indeed was his motive.

It's not heavily implied sexual desire is why he killed his wife. In most the endings is actively rejects the living embodiment of his dead wife being hyper sexual towards him. And his personal tormentor killers her a couple of times implying his guilt wants to kill his sex drive not that he acted on it.

normal people don't just fucking murder people because you pity them, or because they're a bitch to you as they're constantly suffering.

Please try living in the actual real world. Laws are currently being updated and there's public discussion and a rising number of assisted suicides happening each year. Assisted suicide isn't a clear cut murder and Silent hill 2 does nothing to tell us what either party agreed to happen before he killed her. It's quite possible James did exactly what was asked of him and couldn't handle the mental backlash afterwards.

James is just a creepy little weirdo

We don't know what James was like because we barely see him before he has a psychological break and hits deep depression. If you think it's weird a guy losing his wife might have conflicts over seeing a sexy nurse then you're so far beyond the psychology of a straight man you may as well go back to sucking cock rather than discussing this topic any further. Guys look at other women even when in relationships, not all of them cheat but they look. If James won't cheat on his wife it doesn't mean he doesn't have needs and desires. Which in turn manifest in Silent Hill. It's like saying Angela wanted her Dad to fuck her because she sees the fucking monsters there. It brings out the emotional problems, it doesn't pass judgement and if it did then Pyramid head wouldn't suicide at the end when James comes to terms with what happened. Which could easily be argued to be James remembering it was assisted suicide and not killing his wife for no reason.

It's cute you won't even quote posts properly. Probably because you're too retarded to do it and aren't capable of discussing an adult topic such as terminal illness and assisted suicide.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Internet tough guy's only experiences of life are masturbation and 'chronic pain'. I'm not particularly surprised.

You have an absolutely retarded and child-like comprehension of human nature & emotion. Guilt. Isn't. Shit. I wish it were not true, again the world wouldn't be such a fucked up place if that weren't the case, but it is what it is. Guilt is felt by some yes, but not to any meaningful and driving degree that love, anger, despair etc are.

Yeah those other feelings that James also felt and which you could say are the reason any of this started to begin with. And in the end he still wants to be a good person which is why he feels any guilt. Heartless people that fill the world don't care about that? Wow no way.

You're supposed to be complaining about how easy the game is, not that you're too much of a cynical retard to care. Come on, man.

 

[jebsmoker]

This is something many seriously ill people struggle with and it's presented respectfully but also accurately.

Lol. No it isn't. Source: I am very familiar with the situation on a personal level. The entire premise of the game is absolutely retarded that only idiots think is deep. Imagine killing your wife, whom you supposedly love (proven by the fact he stays faithful & committed), because you're sexually frustrated and in a crap situation. He had at least four other options (right hand, side piece, divorce, suicide). The guy is a total fucking retard and mental case. Off this premise alone the plot is ludicrous & pathetic without factoring in the next part:

Guilt isn't an emotion worth a damn. Wake the hell up to the world around you, jesus there's a lot of dumb people here. People are narcissistic by nature. Everyone. Some more than others, but we're all self-serving to an intense degree. Guilt isn't about the self at its core, it's about the other, so it doesn't work like the other emotions, and not as it would in an ideal world to any meaningful degree. Guilt is no emotion worthy of penmanship and a story centerpiece on this level. Only people that don't understand human nature, have never had a relationship in their life (women are on average even more narcissistic) actually think this is a good story. The fact you think otherwise is BEYOND childish. How do you think Ghengis Khan and his army of 100,000 slept at night after murdering raping and pillaging millions of people? How do you think hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians gun each other down every day just because Putin demands it? The Mexican Cartel? Hitler and militarized Germany gassing kids? How do you think the upper echelons of every nation continue to function at the expense & exploitation of the lower half? They all sleep like babies. You have an absolutely retarded and child-like comprehension of human nature & emotion. Guilt. Isn't. Shit. I wish it were not true, again the world wouldn't be such a fucked up place if that weren't the case, but it is what it is. Guilt is felt by some yes, but not to any meaningful and driving degree that love, anger, despair etc are. Because those are about the self first and foremost. People will go to the ends of the earth for love (which is a self-serving emotion), they will suicide from despair. They will risk their freedom as a result of anger. But guilt? It barely motivates us beyond a passing thought here and there.

Silent Hill 2 is by far the number 1 pseudo-intellectual story in video games, pedestalized by retarded dweebs that dont understand the world they live in. For these two reasons, the ones gamercat mentioned, and then some.

congrats this is the dumbest post i've read all year and we're only 4 months into 2024

big internet tough guy doesn't get why people have trouble struggling with certain things that changes a certain element of one's character forever, more at 8

 

[GamerCat_]

Internet tough guy's only experiences of life are masturbation and 'chronic pain'. I'm not particularly surprised.

You have an absolutely retarded and child-like comprehension of human nature & emotion. Guilt. Isn't. Shit. I wish it were not true, again the world wouldn't be such a fucked up place if that weren't the case, but it is what it is. Guilt is felt by some yes, but not to any meaningful and driving degree that love, anger, despair etc are.

Yeah those other feelings that James also felt and which you could say are the reason any of this started to begin with. And in the end he still wants to be a good person which is why he feels any guilt. Heartless people that fill the world don't care about that? Wow no way.

You're supposed to be complaining about how easy the game is

James should have a carry limit for items, weapons should be divided into sub-classes beyond "gun" and "stick", James should have to put skill points into specialising in certain forms of combat and environmental and social skills, also the game should be presented in a top down isometric perspective.

, not that you're too much of a cynical retard to care. Come on, man.

I don't understand how this becomes a divisive point over SH2 but I've seen this exact discussion play out before. Actually... Hell Swarm do you ever post on /v/? We may have done this before.

Anyway, whether or not an emotionally trying situation is compelling shouldn't really be up for debate. It is or it isn't to you. Attempting to work backwards and create a rational argument for whether or not James and Mary are worth sympathising with is outright deranged. A cargo culting of emotional reactions to media, something Swarm and Ash both seem guilty of now. This is all of course compounded by the fact that apparently at least 2/3 of RPGcodex users are too dumb to follow a line of argument beyond a sentence.

This whole discussion brings to mind this stupid fucking meme.

This is what happens when you don't actually give a shit about things but feel like you ought to. You work things into a form that you can care about. Systems, because you are autistic. I'm sure the person who made this would say if pressed that it's possible for a character to be interesting but bad or good but uninteresting.

That's one way to be wrong. To make rules for quality divorced from your own reactions and taste. The other way is to create rules to suit your own reactions and taste, which is what's happening in this thread.

A discussion of whether or not Silent Hill 2 in its complete form is particularly interesting or well realised has become a legalistic discussion over whether or not James' actions are morally or rationally compromising and whether or not he is deserving of sympathy. Questions upon which the quality of the work apparently depends now. If I am repeating myself it's because I strongly doubt your ability to follow a thought stated plainly.

This game is not Million Dollar Baby. I'm sure these questions never even occurred to the creators. Why would they? What is their relevance? The work is the same regardless of how you feel about James. I didn't consider him morally compromised or stupid. And from there I did not have a fifty gigawatt emotional reaction which swarm seems to believe is an appropriate response to recognising this, like we're doing physics or something.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Yeah those other feelings that James also felt and which you could say are the reason any of this started to begin with. And in the end he still wants to be a good person which is why he feels any guilt. Heartless people that fill the world don't care about that? Wow no way.

Guilt is also a driving factor in a lot of personality shifts. It's going to be funny when Ash stops being an internet tough guy and gets trolls remorse. If he's ever met a born again Christian or a SJW ex-troll he'd see how incredibly driving and powerful guilt can be as an emotion.

big internet tough guy doesn't get why people have trouble struggling with certain things that changes a certain element of one's character forever, more at 8

Who knew ending someone's life can be traumatic for someone, especially someone they have an intimiate bond with. It's almost like this is a serious issue and leads to many people having much more difficult lives after.

 

[Ash]

Guilt isn't shit. It counts for something no matter how small, but it is not a powerful motivator. Again, be perceptive to the world around you. SH2 fanboys are dumb. I tried...

 

[Baron Dupek]

is this real?

 

[Hell Swarm]

is this real?

Isn't that the ceremony that starts the story? If it is then it's not sex. It's a trial by fire where you do a ritual and see the monsters while someone else you have a connection with babysits you.