Master of Magic remake from Thea developers and Slitherine

[Lacrymas]

Look. I'm not one of those people who think MoM game design is outdated, if you think so, the game was never meant for you. (Go Play Age of Wonders 4 or something)

It was targeted for fans of the original game (of which I understand there are still many fans here who play Classic MoM). But even for that audience, it's just implemented very badly.

I don't think MoM design is outdated, but you brought up the fact you don't recommend it anymore, so we were all wondering why the change of heart.

 

[Axioms]

Absolutely delusional to say the design of the OG MoM is not oudated. MoM was made under the constraints of PC game design of the time, of which there were an enormous amount. That doesn't mean AoW4 is better of course. I would say that it isn't. But if you got the OG MoM team together now, or even time-traveled them from the time right before they made MoM, they'd be making a totally different game thanks to the many improvements in hardware, UI/UX, and programming power that we have today.

If you ask any developer they will have long speeches about their design decisions and the limitations and all the things they cut. Just watch the Tim Cain videos.

Debates about Dominions style autobattles, with limited scripting, vs raw turn based, vs Total War style RTS battles, vs civ battles on the map, and so on can be debated. Some people prefer a heavy focus on tactical battles and a mostly forgettable world map and some people are the opposite.

But implying that MoM wouldn't be significantly improved, even by the original dev team, due to modern advances in tech and design is ludicrous.

 

[Lacrymas]

It really depends on what areas you think would improve. UI/QoL things, yes, absolutely, gameplay not so much. There aren't a loooot of things wrong with MoM's gameplay. Some more racial uniqueness would be nice and definitely a balance pass, but that's about it.

 

[Axioms]

It really depends on what areas you think would improve. UI/QoL things, yes, absolutely, gameplay not so much. There aren't a loooot of things wrong with MoM's gameplay. Some more racial uniqueness would be nice and definitely a balance pass, but that's about it.

Balance pass is bad. Half the fun of MoM is doing wild stuff and using the fancy top tier spells. Unless you want to play MoM as an MP game, in which case you should be shot and buried in a shallow grave for the coyotes to fight over.

 

[Lacrymas]

Balance pass is good because it brings more strategies to the same power level and viability, ergo more playstyles and variety.

 

[Axiomatic]

It really depends on what areas you think would improve. UI/QoL things, yes, absolutely, gameplay not so much. There aren't a loooot of things wrong with MoM's gameplay. Some more racial uniqueness would be nice and definitely a balance pass, but that's about it.

Balance pass is bad. Half the fun of MoM is doing wild stuff and using the fancy top tier spells. Unless you want to play MoM as an MP game, in which case you should be shot and buried in a shallow grave for the coyotes to fight over.

See why it is perhaps wise not to change too much (except for stuff they couldn't implement cos of incompetence)? Nobody agrees what to change, not even at the high level!

In terms of gameplay (not UI), I agree with Lacrymas there really isn't much to change. The main thing i guess is to do things to reduce city spam (which is partly addressed already). Even the slow pace at the game, they tried to address by increasing movement speed, I myself and others advocated they go further by increasing base growth and production races, have a "quick start" etc.. but they didn't do most of it. It would also be nice to have more startup settings, like setting up exactly the wizards you will face, more wizards than 4 etc.. and you could add a lot of other details other 4x fantasy had like morale system, more tactical options but I don't think those necessarily improve the game.

But I also agree it doesn't need a balance pass and yes that the fun is to do wild stuff.

 

[Old One]

Balance pass is good because it brings more strategies to the same power level and viability, ergo more playstyles and variety.

Except that MoM already has more viable ways to play than any other game I can think of - and wildly different ways, at that.

 

[Axiomatic]

Balance pass is good because it brings more strategies to the same power level and viability, ergo more playstyles and variety.

Except that MoM already has more viable ways to play than any other game I can think of - and wildly different ways, at that.

My guess is the balance pass, doesn't mean variety of ways to play, it means an attempt to make all the varied ways "equal" in strength. It's a fool's errand if you ask me.

Look at the nonsense that is Caster of magic.

 

[mondblut]

The main thing i guess is to do things to reduce city spam

Wait, what? You can build cities in MoM?

(j/k, but the couple of cities I tried to build from the ground back in 1994 have barely progressed beyond hamlets, so I figured conquering AI cities will suffice).

 

[Baron Tahn]

So I haven't read the entire thread - was a big fan of MoM back in the day. Did the remake turn out good/which is the best clone/version to play nowadays?

Ive got or played all of the Age of Wonders, which...dunno something wrong with them now. Shadow Magic was about as good as it got.

 

[Axiomatic]

The main thing i guess is to do things to reduce city spam

Wait, what? You can build cities in MoM?

(j/k, but the couple of cities I tried to build from the ground back in 1994 have barely progressed beyond hamlets, so I figured conquering AI cities will suffice).

Yes, I always puzzled by people who say MoM is boring because you win by spamming cities. In fact, it takes quite a while for the cities to become productive after settling it. It needs time to grow to a hamlet (pop=1) even. The by far superior strategy is to go rush and conquer neutrals and enemy AI. I would maybe build a few choice cities for the admantium.

That said, You can do city spam thing as a human by playing fast pop races like Barbarians and in the DLC goblins, focus on nature/life spells that help cities etc.

To be fair in the remake, the harder difficulty levels is set to have less neutral cities (and even lairs) and you can even play with NO neutrals and NO lairs, which is a very different (and much more difficult experience if you play mostly by rushing). experience.

But more importantly the city spam comment is more to do with the AI. The remake is very good (better than classic AI) at spamming cities even at lower levels and the higher levels they clearly have bonuses so by the time you meet them they have A LOT. But they don't know how to make use of their huge resources (unlike the classic AI which if you let them grow too powerful they will just destroy you with crazy globals) so it's not harder to win, just irritating to clear them all out one by one (I just raze the last wizard's cities)

 

[Axiomatic]

So I haven't read the entire thread - was a big fan of MoM back in the day. Did the remake turn out good/which is the best clone/version to play nowadays?

Ive got or played all of the Age of Wonders, which...dunno something wrong with them now. Shadow Magic was about as good as it got.

The fact you like Shadow Magic is because of all the AOW series, it is closest to Master of Magic.

I feel for people like you there is a much higher chance you will find the remake at least decent and maybe even find it amazing.

It's hard to predict in advance, it depends on

a) How much you really LOVE the MoM design (cos it's is pretty faithful) and not just nostalgia speaking but flipside is there ARE some changes, but minor enough most well knwon strategies like 11 book work, but we do run into people who are just pissed at some i dare say super minor change.

b) How much you can tolerate not state of art graphics, UX/UI etc

c) The uncertainties of whether you hate/ok with/like/love the optional DLC and free content updates

d) If you a CoM lover, I think the chance of you liking the remake goes way down, there are COM lovers who like the remake of not many I think

Also and also no MP, no balance pass, not crazy good AI etc.


There are some huge fans of the remake I see these days on reddit etc promoting the game in random threads, but they probably fit the criteria above

Ask me any questions, I am happy to answer them.

 

[Baron Tahn]

Sounds like you already have:
A)it was cool but Im not married to it, if the remake is faithful enough sounds good.

B) gfx dont bother me as long as its still aesthetically pleasing - like I thought Caves of Lore looked fine. I still think Shadow Magic looks fine. Dont care.

C) dlc whatever. Can get it if gud game.

D) wasnt too fond of CoM unless it improved.

Sounds like I should have a look at the straight remake.

 

[Axiomatic]

Sounds like you already have:
A)it was cool but Im not married to it, if the remake is faithful enough sounds good.

B) gfx dont bother me as long as its still aesthetically pleasing - like I thought Caves of Lore looked fine. I still think Shadow Magic looks fine. Dont care.

C) dlc whatever. Can get it if gud game.

D) wasnt too fond of CoM unless it improved.

Sounds like I should have a look at the straight remake.

Yeah sounds like you would be a good candiate.

C) is for people who say why get a remake of the exact same thing. I'm saying even the base game gives you optional DLC/content to answer that.

B) is the one that is hard to predict, firstly graphical tastes are subjective, there are people saying it's worse than the original (too dark, too generic etc). UX wise is less subjective. There's arguably somethings that the UX doesnt do as well as 94 but many things it clearly does better (e.g. build queues).

 

[Axiomatic]

Master of Magic: Hotfix Version 1.09.17 is out now

We still waiting for an official announcement on fate of the game according to Slitherine rep.

 

[Hagashager]

The main thing i guess is to do things to reduce city spam

Wait, what? You can build cities in MoM?

(j/k, but the couple of cities I tried to build from the ground back in 1994 have barely progressed beyond hamlets, so I figured conquering AI cities will suffice).

In order to found new cities that actually grow you have to settle in places where there are resources. Iron, Gold, Forests, crystal deposits etc.

There's a surveyor option among your advisors list who will give a % of productivity of your current cities and any time where you can found a city.

In my last playthrough I had around 5 founded cities and another 6 conquered. All of them were highly productive.

*protecting* those cities was a bitch though. The AI is pretty stupid but what it can do very very well is churn out troops forever.