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Looks like Blizzard is announcing a new game....

Hellraiser

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The mothership has been confirmed to be the only hard capped uber-unit in the game. Blizzard devs said something along the lines of making the protoss fell more unique that way or something.

Anyone got any sources that confirm the October release? The game has been in development since 2003(after TFT was finished) but I doubt that it will be released this year.

But if it would this would be an awesome year for RTS games Supreme Commander, the CoH expansion, Starcraft II etc.
 

xemous

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kingcomrade said:
the lead designer for this worked on C&C Generals.
Funny you should mention that.

[14] <Rolling_Zergling_Bomb> it looks like Command and Conquer
[14] <Rolling_Zergling_Bomb> with ugly units

Thats lovely actually as CCG has some very nice multiplayer.
 

Claw

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Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Well, I've seen all videos now and have no complaints about the cartoony look. And what's with the complaint about the battlecruisers? They look just like in SC1 to me.

The Colossus unit rubs me the wrong way, though. Dare I say across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely they drew their plans against us?
The beam attack looks eerily similar to UT3's Dark Walker. I would've appreciated a little more originality. Also, why the hell can't they fight air units? Or was that just a misconception because the remaining colossus blew up at the very first hit from a Mutalisk?
I'm not sure about the paper-rock-scissors gameplay. It could be that the demo exaggerates that impression.
I also agree that destroying armoured units with pistols seems silly. It appears nonsensical that a unit would be designed in such a way that its shields only activate when triggered by a powerful attack even if that means being destroyed by weaker attacks. More logical designs could have been shield bubbles that can be penetrated by units and are thus ineffective against attacks at close range, a manually activateable "shield boost" that consumes energy or maybe a tradeoff between offensive and defensive abilites: A powerful shield that shuts down the weaponry, perfect for moving in and out of range, but bad against fast units you can't shake off.

Also, I'd like to see more intelligent AI in an RTS. One thing I noticed in the gameplay demo was that the Warp Rays, although described as specialists against powerful units, would keep fighting against infantry despite the presence of battlecruisers. Wouldn't it be nice if my Warp Ray was smart enough to engage the optimal target? I don't think I like to micromanage that kind of shit.


Regarding the zergling bombs, well, it IS a mutation into a new unit, probably irreversible. So it's a kind of last resort. If the bombs had a limited lifespan, it might not be so bad. Maybe they will.


I also don't mind the mothership. One things is for sure, the attacks - especially the black hole - look cool. The planet cracker or whatever is a close-range attack, mainly against stationary targets. That's a decent limitation. I could imagine ways to balance it, too. Whether or not that's actually being done is another matter.
I dislike the uber units in SupCom somewhat, mainly because of their ridiculous offensive powers. Making a unit that takes ages to build hard to destroy is one thing. Also giving it weapons that will cut through your most powerful defenses like a hot knife through butter is ridiculous.
 

Kortalh

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Claw said:
Also, I'd like to see more intelligent AI in an RTS.
Agreed. I wouldn't even go so far as to call it Artificial Intelligence, but rather Artificial Common Sense. I can't think of any RTS game that's done it, either. This, more than shiny graphics or physics effects, would be the best sort of evolution in the genre.

Claw said:
Regarding the zergling bombs, well, it IS a mutation into a new unit, probably irreversible.
Yeah, the mutation aspect of it makes it not so bad, to me. They become no different than the flying Scourges, but, like Suicidal said, why do they have to roll? They'd be cooler if they were just unstable-looking green Zerglings, rather than some sort of Metroid ripoff.
 

kingcomrade

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Actually, the original Starcraft has some of the best unit AI out of any games I know. Blizzard did implement target priority lists with them, they will stop attacking a building to attack an enemy unit that fires on them or on a nearby unit, for example.
 
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Some of those pics look fine, other shitty because of too big, bulky units.

Anyways, anyone knows how and where to download this cinematic trailer without using blizzards download manager? It seems that the internet connection from this fucking dormitory has all ports blocked, so I cant download the movie this way. Anyone knows a traditional mirror for it?
 

Kortalh

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kingcomrade said:
Actually, the original Starcraft has some of the best unit AI out of any games I know.

Ah yeah, I forgot about that. I don't remember if they focused on any specific enemies, though, beyond the Attacker>SCV>Building hierarchy.

Either way, I'm glad to see they've gotten rid of the Single File Syndrome. Nothing was more frustrating than to send a squad of 12 marines into an enemy base and divert your attention for a few moments, only to have them easily mowed down as the approached one at a time.
 

The_Pope

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Some interesting things I've spotted recently:

No Heroes :D
No/much higher unit cap
Can select as many units as you like

BTW the impression I got with the immortals is that they are lightly armored and rely on their shield for defence. Not really pistol guys destroying a tank.

Hopefully the game won't be hard RPS, games like that usually degenerate into whoever guesses the right build order. Thats the one thing that could really make this suck. I'd like it to be at the very least like SC1, preferably even more role based (ie each unit has a number of abilities and it's up to the players to figure out how to use them rather than artificially crippling them when they come up against the wrong enemy)
 

NOVD

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Claw said:
I'm not sure about the paper-rock-scissors gameplay. It could be that the demo exaggerates that impression.
I think it exaggerates it to some degree. However, the Starcraft II people specifically talked about engineering "hard-counters" to units.

Pardo suggests that Starcraft II will, like the original game, still be a game about "hard counters"--such as how certain units can be directly "countered" (defeated decisively) by specific counter-units; as an example, Pardo shows a brief demonstration of protoss templar units, which are the counter-unit to zerglings, annihilating a swarm of the tiny zerg infantry with their "psi storm" ability. Says Pardo: "Yes, [Starcraft II] will stil be fast-paced and have 'multitasking' for resources and combat, but it'll be a very different game."
 

Ryuken

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Claw said:
I dislike the uber units in SupCom somewhat, mainly because of their ridiculous offensive powers. Making a unit that takes ages to build hard to destroy is one thing. Also giving it weapons that will cut through your most powerful defenses like a hot knife through butter is ridiculous.
Really, they aren't as powerful as they seem. If anything, a large force of SiegeBots holds them up quite well and even a decent firebase could do that. That Czar UFO? You'd only need three or four T3 Samsites to take it down within a couple of seconds. They are balanced pretty fine I'd say.

About StarCraft II: more of the same and no real new features in comparison to the original like WarCraft III and Diablo II offered... which shouldn't be a bad thing but after all those years I expected something else (like that hybrid race).

Actually, the original Starcraft has some of the best unit AI out of any games I know. Blizzard did implement target priority lists with them, they will stop attacking a building to attack an enemy unit that fires on them or on a nearby unit, for example.
Well, that's pretty basic. Play Dark Reign to know what's still possible here.
 
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kingcomrade said:
You can probably find it on Youtube, that's where I saw it. And yeah, I can't get the Blizzard downloader to work either.

Thanks, I like the movie very much, apart from the blizzard typical epic music.

Edit: Now that I have seen the gameplay videos, I have to say im ok with the way the game looks like. Its a bit too shiney maybe, but otherwise its starcraft in 3D and doesn't look to bad.
 

Suicidal

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Hellraiser said:
The mothership has been confirmed to be the only hard capped uber-unit in the game...

The similarities with CnC3 really trouble me.

In CnC3 there is an alien race that:
-Has a mothership, the only hard capped uber unit in the game
-Has walkers simillar to the new Colossus
-Has spider like units that shoot balls of energy and can blink, like the new Stalkers.

I hope they don't take any more ideas from that game, it's pretty horrible compared to SC.

On a positive note - no more 12 units per selection.
FINALLY! This is 1 of the things I hated in SC. It's a game with pretty large scale battles and this makes controlling large armires uncomfortable sometimes.

Removing this horrid feature will make up for the rolling zergling bombs(I think they've been named banelings), CnC3 like units and ugly siege tanks (for me that is).

BTW, removing the max unit cap will make up for the increased rock-paper-scissorness in the gameplay, so I hope they will do so, or atleast increase it drastically.
 

Marsal

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http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/10543/S ... play+Video

Hi res gameplay video. 450 MB. Enjoyed watching it.
Really like the feel of the game (tanks are lame, though). Notice how the presenter doesn't use plural of Colossus and Phoenix (Colossi and Phoenixes? KC help! :))

The mothership isn't that overpowered. 350 shield + 850 HP, 300 energy. Black hole probably costs 200 energy. So 3-4 spaced out battlecrusiers with yamato guns would easily take it down (even if the black hole takes 2 down, the yamato guns still fire).

It is very resistant to low damage per shot units (as it should be), I'm guessing it has 5 starting armor.

Of course, combined with support units, it gains in relative power, but the cost, build time and prerequisites should balance it out just fine.
My guess: 1000 minerals, 1700 gas, needs own building for production and upgrades, build time 300.

Notice how the shields regenerate much faster, even though the game speed is lower than the fastest setting for original SC. I always felt those shields were useless, not only did they receive full damage from all attacks, but would never replenish enough to make a difference in the next battle (without shield batteries) .
 

Suicidal

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Marsal said:
Notice how the shields regenerate much faster, even though the game speed is lower than the fastest setting for original SC. I always felt those shields were useless, not only did they receive full damage from all attacks, but would never replenish enough to make a difference in the next battle (without shield batteries) .

I've noticed that. I've also noticed that the mothership had a much higher shield regen than the colossus(si?). My guess - it was tweaked for the demo or the shield regen rate depends on the amount of shields the unit has. Anyway, I think it is too fast (the colossi(?) regenerated like 3-4 per second).

EDIT - I've just remembered, the colossI(damn I'm starting to hate this word) and the mothership had about the same amount of shields, so It's probably option 2. They said they buffed the mothership for demo purposes themselves, so they probably increased the shield regen too.
 

Marsal

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Suicidal said:
I've noticed that. I've also noticed that the mothership had a much higher shield regen than the colossus(si?). My guess - it was tweaked for the demo or the shield regen rate depends on the amount of shields the unit has. Anyway, I think it is too fast (the colossi(?) regenerated like 3-4 per second).

Definitely a possibility. Very likely in fact.

But I would still like shield regeneration to be about 1/90 of total shields per second when not taking damage (or fighting at all, make it faster when not moving?). So, in a minute and a half the unit would regenerate all lost shields. Just to make shields more useful and different than HP. To compensate, make the shield/HP ratio of a unit in favor of HP, lets say 2:1.

By the way, I don't know the exact regeneration rate in SC, so I might be way off :) I just know it was too slow for my taste :)
 

kingcomrade

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The original shield regen was fine, especially considering how many HPs Protoss units got in the first place.

All the complaints about the new siege tanks have made me think about something I'd almost forgotten. I haven't liked the visual design of a lot of Blizzard units. I didn't like the original siege tank, either, and I thought the Hydralisk looked inappropriate for its role in the Zerg army. Didn't much like the Battlecruisers, either.

Most of the units I didn't like came from Warcraft 3, though, and probably better reflects the team designing Starcraft's units. Something I think is ironic is they had this fetish for what they called "glaives" in Warcraft 3, with like a half dozen units having circular saws or fan blades of some sort (Huntress, Warden, Breaker, Shadow Hunter, Glaive Thrower, and I'm probably forgetting a few) but in the SC video we see the Mutalisks shooting glowing green orbs. In the original SC, Mutalisks were the ones with the spinning "glaive" attack.

Speaking on attacks, the stupidest attack ever devised was for the Crypt Fiends. I am this cool looking spider monster...and I will throw wads of bugs at you! ph34r teh bug wads! If I'm not mistaken those bug wads do the same amount of damage as a mortar. :S
 

Suicidal

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kingcomrade said:
The original shield regen was fine, especially considering how many HPs Protoss units got in the first place.
Agreed. Protoss units have pretty high HP and most of them have armor. Making the regen rate that high will also probably make the shield batteries obsolete.

kingcomrade said:
All the complaints about the new siege tanks have made me think about something I'd almost forgotten. I haven't liked the visual design of a lot of Blizzard units. I didn't like the original siege tank, either, and I thought the Hydralisk looked inappropriate for its role in the Zerg army. Didn't much like the Battlecruisers, either.
I don't have anything against the looks of the original siege tanks but the new ones look like plastic toy tanks.


kingcomrade said:
...If I'm not mistaken those bug wads do the same amount of damage as a mortar. :S
They do less.
 

Atrokkus

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I absolutely adored original siege tank looks. The way it switched to the siege-mode, the siege mode itself with that huge nice-looking cannon (especially when it's not in its default rotate position). The whole vehicle just looks pretty imposing. And the sound... goddamn the cannonfire sound is pure masterpiece.. I really hope they'll make a carbon-copy of it in SC2 bcause the current sound heard in the demo was pathetic.

And that's assuming Starcraft was never quite realistic and gritty in the first place -- it was more Marvelesque: accentuated colors and forms, somewhat exaggerated even, but not too much so it looks like borderline realistic. Starcraft 2 seems to take it more to the non-realistic direction, despite having all the resources to go for the purely realistic look (like in C&C3 for instance), so I would assume it's an art director's decision (and art director is Samwise Didier who is known for his exaggerated cartoony conceptart).

In the original SC, Mutalisks were the ones with the spinning "glaive" attack.
And though to me the acid attack makes more sense if we're talking about a mutalisk, yet the glaive attack was, to me, a much more gameplay-friendly decision. I liked the ricochet it made and how it affected the tactics. That's what made mutalisk so versatile and so effective at harassment.



Suicidal said:
-Has walkers simillar to the new Colossus
Oh come on. The walker and even tripod concept is so overdone in ANY game out there that it's not really a "sign" of anything. Just like the walker-robot concept (goliath) -- would you then say that SC:BW had to become something of, say, Battle Tech or another game featuring walker-robots?
Besides, the walker that can step over the cliffs is a new and interesting concept to a game like SC.

-Has spider like units that shoot balls of energy and can blink, like the new Stalkers.
Remind me please, which C&C unit could do that? The masterminds (if that's the unit you're referring to) didnt really blink like that.
And oh yes I do love the stalker concept... except for its looks which i dont find appealing.
By the way, blinking is another universal concept that was done in TONS of games. Remember Battle Realms with those black sabotage units (forgot their names)? Or WC3 with its Warden?
Now, while all of the aforementioned were somewhat special (warden is a hero and that unit from battlerealms was not something you could build en-masse), the stalkers are not too expensive ( i thinK) and can be massed quite easily, which makes them a very interesting unit, especially from micro perspective. Despite the fact that their presetnation was poorly conducted (they could instead give the controls to some progamer who would micro those blinkers REALLY well), it still does illustrate the point that stalkers are good only when microed well, adn with the right set of hands you can do real magic with those. Which, in turn, makes them viable throughout the whole game.

I like the concept of protoss having units that are quite crafty and that require more attention to their special abilities. I wonder how would that compare to other races? In SC:BW terrans and protoss had similar emphasis on special abiltiies, while the zerg were mostly about macro.
 

Suicidal

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Atrokkus said:
Has spider like units that shoot balls of energy and can blink, like the new Stalkers.
Remind me please, which C&C unit could do that? The masterminds (if that's the unit you're referring to) didnt really blink like that.
No, I was refering to shock troopers, the scrin heavy infantry, remember those? They seem quite simillar to stalkers, for me atleast.

And I know the giant robot walkers are nothing new, but what troubles me is that the new protoss seem to have very simillar units to the ones I mentioned.

But I shouldn't let minor things like that ruin the game for me, right? I'm sure it will be great and I will enjoy it.
 

Marsal

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Atrokkus said:
I absolutely adored original siege tank looks. The way it switched to the siege-mode, the siege mode itself with that huge nice-looking cannon (especially when it's not in its default rotate position). The whole vehicle just looks pretty imposing. And the sound... goddamn the cannonfire sound is pure masterpiece.. I really hope they'll make a carbon-copy of it in SC2 bcause the current sound heard in the demo was pathetic.

Agree, although that whole "huge nice-looking cannon" thing made me laugh ;)

Atrokkus said:
And though to me the acid attack makes more sense if we're talking about a mutalisk, yet the glaive attack was, to me, a much more gameplay-friendly decision. I liked the ricochet it made and how it affected the tactics. That's what made mutalisk so versatile and so effective at harassment.

I think it still ricochets, just looks different. They'll hopefully change it in the final version.
 

kris

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From what I seen it seems to have gone in the general direction of my wants. More of a improvment that an "reinnovation of the wheel".
 

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