KOTOR - some criticisms

[Spazmo]

You gimp, it is the console's fault! The Infiity Engine games and NWN have perfectly normal inventory systems, showing that BioWare is clearly capable of making a decent inventory system. KotOR's inventory system, however, sucks. Now what would you say is the main difference between KotOR and previous BioWare titles that might cause this discrepancy?

You get a cookie.

Granted, you might just say BioWare wasn't up to the task of making an inventory system for a console RPG. Nonetheless, if KotOR hadn't been designed for the Xbox first, the inventory wouldn't suck.

 

[triCritical]

Like Spazmo, says while the XBOX interface may have still been bad, that does not necessarily prove your point Volourn. The fact is that the XBOX is the reason why they went for this cumbersome interface, most likely to make it more convenient for XBOX users. You can't possibly dispute this?

furthermore why stop at inventory? Lets talk about those three stupid boxes that appear over an enemies head, or the four stupid boxes at the bottom left that you have to cycle through to get something. Considering that branching menus don't really work on consoles you can see why they went with the cycling PoS. Are you going to say that this is not the consoles fault either. Why not just make a branching menu for the PC and a lame from for the lame-box? Because ports suck that's why!

 

[Snuffles]

I found some of the console inspired changes to be quite good, including the inventory, I would love to be able to press I and get a list of just new items that you picked up, like you can in KotOR. I would also love to be able to click on the area of the paperdoll that represents weapons and get a list of equippable items come up, then when I click on each one, it shows me my attack bonus and damage with that weapon.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You're kidding, right?

The paper doll inventory screen isn't half bad, I admit. But the general inventory is more or less unmanageable.

I think it'd be pretty cool if someone could come up with an inventory screen that combines the versatility of KOTOR's paper doll outfitter, with the tabbed-browsing of Divine Divinity and the slot based system of Baldur's Gate.

There shouldn't be any limit to how many items you can have in your inventory so long as you meet the weight requirements.

 

[triCritical]

There shouldn't be any limit to how many items you can have in your inventory so long as you meet the weight requirements.

I don't like weight based scales because IMO it unecessarily favors strong characters.

A typical soldier throughout the ages has had to carry anywhere from 40-80 lbs worth of gear. And with the help of the moder backpack things have only become easier to carry. I think a volumetric system is not only easier to balance but more reasonable.

Also, for volumetric inventory, I don't like Arcanum like things because you end up playing a housekeeper. Instead I like a system like Fallout's where instead of weight you just keep track of volume.

 

[Anonymous]

I noticed weight-based works in party RPGs because you can shift around items between your guys, but I like size-inventories for single-person RPGs (and games). It's just more logical, kinda. Fallout's was still good, though.

 

[Killzig]

the equipping screens on the inventory were good. as was the different settings to view new items and quest items. BUT the display was very limited, it was cluttered often by way too many datapads that should have just been automatically entered into your journal and discarded and the give items/get item screens are horrendous. you have to take the whole stable of loot if you want just one item, then hit the container again, switch to give items place unwanted item back in... THEN IT TOSSES YOU BACK OUT. Never in my life had I longed for Fallout's inventory system like I did the day I played KOTOR. Oh and forget about using the containers on the ship -- totally fucking worthless to sit and give items for 40 minutes.

 

[triCritical]

Since Killzig mentioned the ship and this is about criticism's of KotOR a true ROELplaying game, was anybody else a little pissed that good character had to go guns blazing and steal the ship. It would have been nice if they had not scripted so much crap that made you follow that exact scenario, and allowed sorta good and stupid evil, your two ROELplaying options, different ways of getting off the planet.

 

[Killzig]

Tri, you're absolutely right... but then again this game forces you into situations quite often. I think one of the biggest misconceptions of this game is that the Dark Side campaign is different from the light side campaign. It really isn't.

 

[Hawkwing74]

Ok, Having finished this for the first time, here are some criticisms of the final game (relatively spoiler free):

* The game suffered like NWN of having countless boxes and crates to open and loot which you could do in front of the local residents without a reaction. I guess the old republic weren't so into ownership like we are today.

I call this the syndrome of "I'm going to save the universe so I can take whatever I want."

Most of the combat also seemed too easy with only a few reloads required in the game (usually in areas involving large volumes of enemies). Most boss enemies were easily dispatched. Also playing with 3 jedi at a time *really* makes combat a bit too simple/easy.

I totally agree with this. Bosses were very easy, especially with all the unrealistic medpacks. "Excuse me while I rescuscitate myself from the edge of death"

I also loved the game despite its foibles.

 

[Snuffles]

I would definately recommend putting the difficulty to hard, it is still easy most of the time, but it is much more challenging.

 

[Shatterhand]

I'm new here and probably won't post very often. I just need a place to vent about this game.

When I first started playing it, I was pretty excited. However, my objections kept piling up, until they entirely obscured all of the game's good points. At this point, as with all of Bioware's other games I've tried, I doubt I'm going to bother finishing KOTOR.

Here are the things that bothered me the most.

1. The joinable NPC's are cliche's of the worst sort. Carth makes Virgil (from Arcanum) seem like good company. Mission is just another "plucky little girl," the Chewbacca guy is sanctimonious, etc. Sure the voice acting is good, but that's just like intricate icing on stale cake. The only npc I liked was the assassin droid (sorry, as you can see, I have some trouble with names), because he makes the observations I want to make.

2. Level design, as others have said, is horrible. No matter where you go, you're walking a narrow, pre-set path. Sometimes the wall is no more than a few inches high, but, no, you can't just walk over it. I realize, of course, that games must have their limitations, but they could at least be designed in a way that isn't so insulting.

3. Far and away my greatest problem with this game is its juvenile political correctness. Example: if memory serves, in the original movie the Sand People were just plain bad. In this game, however, they are aboriginals whose "innocent" "way of life" is "threatened" by the "encroachments" of a more "advanced" civilization. Gimme a break. The same applies to hunting (the real hunter is one who "respects" his prey (but he still kills it! "Hey, prey, I have, like, total respect for you, and I think we've acheived understanding on a mystical level. Now die.")). And, of course, the Czerka Corporation is evil because...well, corporations are evil. The Star Wars movies were fun because they were fast-paced adventures filled with bright characters and derring-do, not because they were grad school-level political tracts.

I could go on, but what's the point? I'll buy the sequel if Obsidian makes it--the whole concept has a lot of potential. But I doubt I'll ever even consider a Bioware game again.

 

[triCritical]

2. Level design, as others have said, is horrible. No matter where you go, you're walking a narrow, pre-set path. Sometimes the wall is no more than a few inches high, but, no, you can't just walk over it. I realize, of course, that games must have their limitations, but they could at least be designed in a way that isn't so insulting.

This really bugged me. In combat I can jump 30 feet in front of me and 10 feet high, but I can't get over a 1 curb? The whole console-ation of this CRPG, really hurts for someone that is expecting a good PC styled CRPG.

Your other two points are valid points from a story perspective. I really don't tend to complain much on these issues, because frankly most CRPG stories just suck. And if most game developers were nobel laureates, then they wouldn't be making dialogue and stories for games.

I could go on, but what's the point? I'll buy the sequel if Obsidian makes it--the whole concept has a lot of potential. But I doubt I'll ever even consider a Bioware game again.

Well I was done with Bioware games until some people on this site gave it a fairly positive review. However, unlike them I found that the same formula that makes their games suck for me still was way too ubiquitous in this game yet. As a matter a fact I don't even want a Obsidian version of this game since it most of my problems with the game are technical in nature, and I don't think they would do a damn thing to change them.

Just things like the horrific combat, the non-use of ability scores for roleplaying purposes and the fact that skills do not have a meaningful impact on the game rather peripheal, the use of PDA's which just does not fit in a Star Wars setting. Not to mention the lack of ways that their are to do things, and the fact that you have to go through the most ludicrous things to complete quest such as on Taris, and the general lack of freedom to really explore your characters role. IMO a lot of reviewer's have come to expect very little from roleplaying games, or just think voice acting and lip-syncing equate to ROELPLAYINGE!

BTW, I come here because I am generally frustrated with a lot of CRPG's of today. As with most of here. This is sort of a place on the web for people that are indeed frustrated. So welcome.

 

[Limorkil]

Not played Kotor, but I wanted to bring something up on the inventory issue.

I play Morrowind on the Xbox and on the PC. The inventory system looks the same for both games, but the PC version makes use of the mouse whereas the Xbox version, obviously, doesn't. IMO the inventory in both versions is pretty good. Yeah, it could be better, but it is not noticeably lacking.

So my point is that it is perfectly easy to have a good inventory system for a game that is both console and PC. There is no excuse for not doing so.