Preview KOTOR drooled over at Computer Gaming World

[Spazmo]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href=http://www.computergaming.com>Computer Gaming World</a> have <a href=http://www.computergaming.com/article2/0,4364,1364455,00.asp>previewed</a> <a href=http://www.bioware.com>BioWare</a>'s Star Wars RPG, <a href=http://www.swkotor.com>Knights of the Old Republic</a>.
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<blockquote>Knights of the Old Republic begins in epic Star Wars fashion, with your custom-designed character narrowly escaping a devastating space attack by a Sith fleet and central villain Darth Malak by ejecting via escape pod. While the overarching meta-goal—in one version of the story, at least—revolves around saving the galaxy from the Sith, the joy lies not in the end results, but in a wildly open-ended journey that will leave even the crustiest gamers breathless.
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<u>The nonlinear missions, quests, character subplots</u>, minigames, weapon load-outs, character improvements, and space battles would fill every single page of this magazine, so here's the short version: From completing seemingly inconsequential tasks that loop back around later in the game to gleefully wading through the Diablo-esque slew of weapons, items, upgrades, and armor, there's more game in KOTOR than you can wrap your mind around. At least the first time through.</blockquote>
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I'd be happy if it was true. I really would. But I still doubt it.
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Thanks, <b>Vault Dweller!</b>

 

[Vault Dweller]

They are doing that "we're the best" thing again:

You know those key gaming moments that give you a chill down your spine? I think we created one of those

I'm curious though, from what I heard only a blind fool would not see that major-plot-twist (tm) coming, but people are often biased, so can anybody who played the Xbox version comment on the twist without spoiling it?

 

[Volourn]

I can. Don't buy the game, you won't like it.

As for the article, it's just hype. Deal with it. I doubt the game is as perfect as its described there; and I doubt it's as horrible as some make it out to be either.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I can. Don't buy the game, you won't like it.

I won't like it because of the twist or overall gameplay?

 

[Volourn]

Because you've played previous BIO games. For the most part, you don't like them. Why do you, all of assuden, think that BIO is going to make a game you like when their previous games have been successful depsite your distaste for them? There's no logic in that. I, for one, will probably like KOTOR for what it sincem I'm fully aware I'm getting a BIO crpg; and not a Troika crpg, or a BIS crpg, or a Squaresoft crpg and I tend to like them.

Capuch?

PS. Don't mind me... I'm just a punk. :twisted:

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Capuch?

Russian for Capische, i wager.

 

[Volourn]

Nah. Just a made up word. Unless, it is Russian.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Just cause it's a BIO game does not mean it sucks. It's a very good game with loads of quests that have alternate ways to finish them, etc. The twist definitely was a good one, but it didn't send chills down my spine. It did make me stop and go "Whoa...." though. As for the 'non-linear' missions, I think they are referring to the fact that throughout most of the game, you can do things in pretty much any order you want. BUT, there is not true 'freedom' as that might lead you to believe.

It is still a wonderful game and at least worth a play. Hopefully they will come out with a decent demo for those who are afraid it will be another piece of crap. I loved the game, but then that is my opinion. Then again, just look at all the reviews. BIO may be conceded assholes, but they did make a great game in KOTOR and I at least give them recognition for that.

Greatest RPG I ever played? No.
Damn fun RPG that I enjoyed playing even on the third time through? Yes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Because you've played previous BIO games. For the most part, you don't like them. Why do you, all of assuden, think that BIO is going to make a game you like when their previous games have been successful depsite your distaste for them. There's no logic in that.

Yes, there is.
First, I'm a SW fan and a sci-fi fan
Second, theoretically, there is always a chance that a new game from a familiar developer would be different from what's usually expected. Exhibit A is ToEE, although it's an outstanding dungeon crawler, the quests and dialogues bear no resemblance to Tim Cain's previous work.
Third, games and rpgs in particular are my hobby. I like playing them, I like discussing them, and I like analyzing them. One wouldn't appreciate the beauty of Fallout and Arcanum to full extent without playing other games that handled rp issues and design choices differently. I haven't made my mind yet whether or not there are any rp choices to begin with, that's why I ask questions from time to time, but if KOTOR has real choices, unlike BG2 and NWN, and real consequences other then looking differently, then it would be worth playing at least out of curiosity.
Make sense?

Capuch?

Capuch, comrade

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The thing about KOTOR is there are multiple ways to deal with just about everything in the game. And they all have their consequences, both for your character, and for the outcome of the situation. Now, I am not saying that it's so indepth that you can handle any situation in any way you could imagine possible. But they do give you alot of options. Some might give you light side points and some might give you dark side points. You might be able to get more points on either side depending on what choices you made.

Example (and this is not from the game, just an example to show you what I mean):

You come across a hungry dog begging for scraps. He looks up at you pleadingly and whines.
1. Pet him. (no consequence)
2. Give him a doggie biscuit. (1 or 2 light side points gained)
3. Take him home and give him a king's feast and a warm place to sleep. (LOTS of light side points gained)
4. Kick him. (1 or 2 dark side points gained)
5. Kill him. (LOTS of dark side points gained)
6. Ignore him. (no consequence)

Not the best of examples, but it gets the point across. Most every situation you deal with in the game gives you numerous options, and alot of time those branch out to more options, thereby giving you multiple ways to deal with something and multiple outcomes for doing so. I recommend the game. Whole heartedly.

The only real thing I would like to see more of in the game is recruitable NPCs. Their are nine in the Xbox version, but I really only like three or four of them. I would like to see more variety in that departement.

Oh, and on the subject of consequences, it's not merely light or dark side points all the time. In the example above, if you chose 3, you'll still get the light side points, but now maybe he's a playable NPC attack dog from hell who kicks ass.

 

[Volourn]

VD, despite myd esire to debate; I don't play games to compare them; but to have fun. How many BIO crpgs are ya gonna buy before you realize they just don't make the games the way you like. Nothing wrong with that; but to me it seems a waste of time to buy a game you'll know you'll hate. This is why I have no intention to purchase ES4 no matter how much hype there is.

Of course, I *could* br wrong, and KOTOR will actually be a BIO crpg you like; but I aion't holding my breath.

Capucheo? :wink:

 

[Vault Dweller]

How many BIO crpgs are ya gonna buy before you realize they just don't make the games the way you like. Nothing wrong with that; but to me it seems a waste of time to buy a game you'll know you'll hate

I played a lot of games in my life, yet if you ask me to name the games worth playing, the list would be very short. Does that mean that all that time and money was wasted? Not really. I don't want to write an essay here, but I hope you understand what I'm saying. As for Bio, like I said many times, I don't hate them, I simply disagree with their approach and design philosophy. Neither one is written in stone.

The thing about KOTOR is there are multiple ways to deal with just about everything in the game. And they all have their consequences, both for your character, and for the outcome of the situation. Now, I am not saying that it's so indepth that you can handle any situation in any way you could imagine possible. But they do give you alot of options

Can you give me an example of the consequences? Your example with a dog focused mostly on light/dark points as a result, and that's not what I was looking for. Do the choices that you make matter? Do they have some long-tem effect? Do they change the situation completely, i.e. close one path but open another? What about conversations? What other game can you compare the dialogues (not the writing, the way it works) to?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Capucheo? :wink:

Capuchinno? Yes, i'll have one

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Can you give me an example of the consequences? Your example with a dog focused mostly on light/dark points as a result, and that's not what I was looking for. Do the choices that you make matter? Do they have some long-tem effect? Do they change the situation completely, i.e. close one path but open another? What about conversations? What other game can you compare the dialogues (not the writing, the way it works) to?

Hmmm... okay, let's see.

To be honest, there is not that many long-term effects to be had in the game with the exception of which ending you will lean towards. There are some though, but I really don't want to give away any spoilers. Alot of the choices you make matter and can determine how well you are accepted in certain circles. There is no 'reputation' per say, but there are factions within the game that will either love or hate you depending on some of the choices you have made in the game. I mean, what will certain people think of you if you are a true jedi of the order? On the flip side, what will those people think of you if you are a dark brooding jedi with evil intentions? It's nothing super complex, but it IS decently done.

To boil it down though, light or dark side points are really the meat and potatoes of the game. Well, other than experience and levelling up your characters. There are other effects brought on by your actions, but not in everything you do.

There are also some moments where you can close one path and open another, but they are not prevalent throughout the game and are few and far between. Don't let this keep you from trying the game though. It's definitely worth your time.

The dialogue... whoa, the dialogue. This game has ALOT. I would easily compare it to either of the Fallout games dialogue-wise as to how it affects things.There are plenty of moments where you can talk or fight or even both if you wish. It is also well written and well voice acted. And, yes, all the dialogue in the game is voice acted with the exception of the main character. Even the non-essential NPCs have voices, even though it's usually two or three things they say over and over.

Sometimes in the game, the peaceful solution can net you as much if not more experience than the 'run in swords blazing' method. Especially if you are following the light side. I guess you could say these are the 'long-term effects' you were looking for. If you make friends with someone instead of just killing them, they're gonna be there later in the game and possibly be able to help you in some way. After playing through three times now, I still find new things through dialogue. Different ways to do things.

By the way, you also have the option of being a stealth monkey and solving alot of the major things you run up against through that method as well. Diplomacy, stealth, or all out combat. You have the choices.

This game is head and tails above NWN gameplay-wise. Combat is such a treat to watch, exploring the different options you have to handle given situations means it won't get stale fast, and did I mention the game is FUN.

Hope that helps, but I'll be glad to give anymore info you might want.

 

[Voss]

Hmm. That doesn't sound so bad.

Question about the 'watching combat' though...

How much is it clicking a few orders then sitting back and watching the game play it out? Thats how its come across from time to time in reviews and what-not, and its an approach I find uninteresting at best. So is it sit back and watch, or do you actually have good control (over your own character, at least)?

 

[Percolator Fish]

The combat is essentially the same as BG.

"It plays itself."

p.s. i love the game

 

[Sol Invictus]

5. Kill him. (LOTS of dark side points gained)

Wow. I'd kill the guy who did that.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The combat is essentially the same as BG.

"It plays itself."

p.s. i love the game

This is true. But like in BG, you can pause at any given time and change commands. They also have a queue for each character that will allow you to give them up to five commands they will execute in order. You can, as in BG, also have the game pause at the end of each round, when an enemy is sighted, when a character dies, etc.

You don't HAVE to sit back and watch. There is the depth of control that you could perform in BG. It's just that once you get used to the combat, you'll probably be doing alot of real time for the 'random' encounters and only taking severe control for the major fights.

Wow. I'd kill the guy who did that.

Hehe. I know what you mean. But the fact that you have options like that in the game is what makes it so diversely great. Even if you are going the path of the darkside, you can still do things that will gain you light side points if you feel it will benefit you better in the long run. You can always lose those points later on in the game through other actions. :twisted:

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks for your response, Otaku, that certainly was very informative. Last question, the evil path. Bio's previous games (I didn't play NWN expansions though) portrayed evil as mass-murdering + charging/extorting money for basically good deeds. One of Bio's designer (Gaider) mentioned that there is no point of making multiple paths through the game as most people play a game once, hence one path with shades of good and bad. How does KOTOR handle the art of being evil?

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Thanks for your response, Otaku, that certainly was very informative. Last question, the evil path. Bio's previous games (I didn't play NWN expansions though) portrayed evil as mass-murdering + charging/extorting money for basically good deeds. One of Bio's designer (Gaider) mentioned that there is no point of making multiple paths through the game as most people play a game once, hence one path with shades of good and bad. How does KOTOR handle the art of being evil?

No worries, mate. It's a great game and I think it would be a shame for people to just pass it by due to BIO's rep. Everyone who loves RPGs should experience this game.

As far as the art of being evil goes, it does involve the above mentioned methods, but there are other ways too. Simply telling someone no to a request can earn you darkside points. Using your force powers to turn a conversation the way you want or to make someone give you something against their will = darkside points. There are other ways to. Manipulating events so they go bad for the people involved is another way. Example: In the game you have to help with a couple of murder investigations. You have the power to sway them one way or the other, either through diplomacy, brute force, or force powers. It's up to you. And depending on the outcome you cause, you either get light or dark points. The options aren't endless, but there are lots of them.

 

[Elwro]

Getting those points might be fun for a time, but are there quests availaible exclusively for those on the Dark Side? I mean, up to now (from what I've heard) it seems as if the game was taking a counter and in the end telling the player "Yep, your morality score is -0.00005... so you get the Bad Ending. Or you can just press the second dialogue option here and I will gladly change your counter to +0.5. This way, if you save here, you will be able to watch both endings without restarting the game - who would be stupid enough to do it, anyway".
I would be very happy if it wasn't the case - and since you're saying that you play it for the third time, it perhaps isn't. I heard that, late in the game, there's an event which can make you switch the Sides regardless of all your previous choices. That would seem to be a poor design decision for me.
Remember Arcanum's evil plot? Does KotoR have anything like that?

 

[dipdipdip]

Getting those points might be fun for a time, but are there quests availaible exclusively for those on the Dark Side? I mean, up to now (from what I've heard) it seems as if the game was taking a counter and in the end telling the player "Yep, your morality score is -0.00005... so you get the Bad Ending. Or you can just press the second dialogue option here and I will gladly change your counter to +0.5. This way, if you save here, you will be able to watch both endings without restarting the game - who would be stupid enough to do it, anyway".
I would be very happy if it wasn't the case - and since you're saying that you play it for the third time, it perhaps isn't. I heard that, late in the game, there's an event which can make you switch the Sides regardless of all your previous choices. That would seem to be a poor design decision for me.
Remember Arcanum's evil plot? Does KotoR have anything like that?

There are no evil-specific quests to my knowledge. In the game's major quests, there are usually two ways to go about solving things -- naughty or nice. There's nothing in the way of Temple of Elemental Evil's different angles of approach for different alignments. Your counter analogy is actually very accurate.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

There are no evil-specific quests to my knowledge. In the game's major quests, there are usually two ways to go about solving things -- naughty or nice. There's nothing in the way of Temple of Elemental Evil's different angles of approach for different alignments. Your counter analogy is actually very accurate.

Well, that's not exactly true. Depending on what your choices are, there are good and evil missions, but not until over halfway through the game. You can still hear about the evil missions while being good and vice versa though. It's just up to you to roleplay the part and do what you're gonna do. There IS an evil path and a good path, but they both follow the same road with occasional twists and turns that stray from each other.

I never claimed this game was the most diverse of rpgs out there, but it does have plenty of variety in what you can do and the outcomes you can cause. Plus, like I said, once you get about halfway through the game, you'll start seeing a bit more variety depending on the path you have chosen. I am hoping they change more than just extra items for the PC version. I would definitely like to see more quests and more variety early on in the game.

As for the switch thing you brought up Elwro, there is no such thing. There IS however two things they did not catch that you can do early on in the game that will net you dark or light side points over and over again. The light side one is easy to do. The darkside one is easy as well, but doesn't come until after the light side one does. Personally, I just view these as bugs that can be exploited if you know about them. But there is no "I can make you light or dark. What'll it be?" switch in the game at all.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Or you can just press the second dialogue option here and I will gladly change your counter to +0.5. This way, if you save here, you will be able to watch both endings without restarting the game - who would be stupid enough to do it, anyway".

I hated that in BG2 and Deus Ex. Sure DX at least had you work towards an ending, but still...