Is there going to be a KOTOR III?

[Darth Roxor]

The whole "morally ambiguous villain" thing is complete bullshit. Real villains don't talk monologues about their motives and purpose; they just stay one step ahead of you and have their daggers on your throats before you can make any move. They don't need to tell you anything, just kill you at the right moment.

And that's why Kreia is a hundred steps ahead of you, because she presents her motives in a shady way to appeal to you and make you gain her trust, while at the same time she is pulling strings and makes you do everything by her will.

David Gaider has the right idea about villains. A completely evil villain is far more compelling than any person sitting on a fence. Because the former is a genuine problem for the hero, while the latter is just a poser, who is only capable of making dramatised speeches. Posers are not a threat, and if they resort to such flimsy dichotomies that they do evil things for the greater good, then the story is just going for a copout.

r00fles.

That's why Transcendental One was an awesome villain. All he made sure to do was to have his shadows be at the Nameless One's throat at every point in his life, and to never let anyone who knew about his past to be alive.

Was TTO a villain? Hardly. One might actually argue that *you* were the villain for chasing him around, while he just wanted everyone to leave him alone. Also, the shadows were not TTO's minions, they were angry spirits of people who have died everytime TNO died and that made them hate TNO with a passion and try to tear him apart on every possible step.

 

[DiverNB]

The whole "morally ambiguous villain" thing is complete bullshit. Real villains don't talk monologues about their motives and purpose; they just stay one step ahead of you and have their daggers on your throats before you can make any move. They don't need to tell you anything, just kill you at the right moment.

And that's why Kreia is a hundred steps ahead of you, because she presents her motives in a shady way to appeal to you and make you gain her trust, while at the same time she is pulling strings and makes you do everything by her will.

David Gaider has the right idea about villains. A completely evil villain is far more compelling than any person sitting on a fence. Because the former is a genuine problem for the hero, while the latter is just a poser, who is only capable of making dramatised speeches. Posers are not a threat, and if they resort to such flimsy dichotomies that they do evil things for the greater good, then the story is just going for a copout.

r00fles.

That's why Transcendental One was an awesome villain. All he made sure to do was to have his shadows be at the Nameless One's throat at every point in his life, and to never let anyone who knew about his past to be alive.

Was TTO a villain? Hardly. One might actually argue that *you* were the villain for chasing him around, while he just wanted everyone to leave him alone. Also, the shadows were not TTO's minions, they were angry spirits of people who have died everytime TNO died and that made them hate TNO with a passion and try to tear him apart on every possible step.

That's what I liked about Kreia. You thought you knew her, what she stood for, but she manipulated you and pretty much everyone else.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Look, Kreia is a character presented by rambling speeches about morality. This is the accomplishment of her life, to decide whether it's a good idea to pay a beggar or to tell him to shove off. This is not a villain, this is a poser.

Look, seriously, one way or the other, this whole thing is a cliche in itself. An overused one. I am sick of fantasy where some antagonist announces that he was doing it all for the greater good. I have seen such situations in dozens of books, and it just gets worse each time I see it.

One of the few times that such a villain was actually interesting was Makala in Betrayal At Krondor. Because that's when you realize that Makala is atleast a remotely compassionate man, and that Pug, the man on your side, is far more cruel and worse than he could ever be.

 

[Texas Red]

Look, Kreia is a character presented by rambling speeches about morality. This is the accomplishment of her life, to decide whether it's a good idea to pay a beggar or to tell him to shove off. This is not a villain, this is a poser.

Look, seriously, one way or the other, this whole thing is a cliche in itself. An overused one. I am sick of fantasy where some antagonist announces that he was doing it all for the greater good. I have seen such situations in dozens of books, and it just gets worse each time I see it.

One of the few times that such a villain was actually interesting was Makala in Betrayal At Krondor. Because that's when you realize that Makala is atleast a remotely compassionate man, and that Pug, the man on your side, is far more cruel and worse than he could ever be.

Maybe it's cliche because it's truthful? Do you think real life conquerers wanted more lands just so they could repress more people because they are evil? Every such autocrat had a vision to better the lives of his people. Plus KotOR 2 had other villains more to your liking, such as Nihilus who wanted to consume everything due to his condition, or Sion who just a thug wanting to be the best.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Look, Kreia is a character presented by rambling speeches about morality. This is the accomplishment of her life, to decide whether it's a good idea to pay a beggar or to tell him to shove off. This is not a villain, this is a poser.

Oh yes, I stand corrected, now I see the errors of my ways. The real, very well done villain is the psycho who enters a building with an AK-47 without any explanations except "I did it for the lulz" and starts shooting people.

Look, seriously, one way or the other, this whole thing is a cliche in itself. An overused one. I am sick of fantasy where some antagonist announces that he was doing it all for the greater good. I have seen such situations in dozens of books, and it just gets worse each time I see it.

Huh? It's not said anywhere that Kreia is doing 'it' for the greater good. She wants the death of the force, because she sees it fitting her agenda, and she wants a kind of 'vengeance' on it for fucking up her life. She doesn't run around plotting the deaths of jedi masters to save the fluffy kittens - she mainly wants revenge.

One of the few times that such a villain was actually interesting was Makala in Betrayal At Krondor. Because that's when you realize that Makala is atleast a remotely compassionate man, and that Pug, the man on your side, is far more cruel and worse than he could ever be.

Do elaborate on that, 'cause I believe we played two different Betrayals at Krondor. Makala is blinded by his goal to find the purpose of the lifestone, and starts a great war between the Kingdom and the Moredhel. How is Pug even remotely 'far more cruel' than him?

 

[DiverNB]

Canderous still had some awesome quotes.


When I think of the battles I've fought… the thousands I've killed… the worlds I've burned… I weep for my past.


The VA for him was pretty good too imo.

 

[Nael]

MMORPGs: The last refuge of the incompetent and the untalented.

Seriously? Then what the fuck do you call this place?

Seems that my simple post wasn't simple enough for you.That was directed towards developers/publishers who being unable to create anything remotely good or interesting make one identical MMORPG after the other.

A last refuge is a last refuge. There are plenty of refuges left for people, animals, and developers/publishers with no talent or competence. Your original statement is still.... incompetent.

I'm one pugnacious motherfucker. Please bring your A-game or I will rip you a new asshole and let one of these filthy Russians stuff it.