Is PoE just the 3E IE game the Codex never knew it hated?

[FreeKaner]

The complaints that Pilllars are full of "awesome buttons" are by far the highest point of mental diarrhea I have ever seen around here, and that says a lot. The problem with the systems is exactly the opposite, everything is so obsessively balanced, nothing is awesome.

BG 1&2 was always about countering awesome with awesome, overpowered with overpowered, which has a side effect of making people delude themselves that they're amazing at video games.

Yes my favourite complaints from the crowd which love BG2 and hate PoE are the complaints also exist in BG2 if not at a greater degree. Don't get me wrong PoE has a lot of shortcomings, both narrative and gameplay wise and plenty of areas those can be improved upon and I don't agree with Sawyer's balance down principle or making rogues, fighters and barbarians magical but it feels to me half the shit people say about PoE are run through a generic complaint creator they copy paste here. My favourite about that would definitely be how generic and bland PoE is when BG2 is literally the cheesy medieval fantasy with clichés upon clichés, I am not saying there is anything bad about that, it has its place but honestly do people even read what they write?

People who wanted a BG3 exactly like BG2 except more content were disappoint, I just don't see why people STILL do this day want to play with 2nd edition D&D ruleset. If you ask me that sort of bound to Pen&paper rulesets were step stones we should moved away from long ago, they are rulesets made for abstracting actions behind dice rolls and built characters with dice rolls to make runs unique and so people don't play with same optimized characters every time. They don't have place in computer games where abstraction calculation can be made automatically by the computer instantaneously and games are made unique by expertise of the writers not quirkiness of the GM. I just don't understand the obsession to have the D&D ruleset in RPG games, nor D&D tropes, do people just want to play nostalgia, not new things?

Also caster classes in PoE can do "awesome" things but by the time you can invoke these awesome buttons game is already about to end. I guess WM solved that problem but it is irrelevant anyway, it is just the same generic complaints about awesome buttons or likening an RPG to a MMO or MOBA. Those became Hitler of RPGs anyway. Don't like a game? Call it a MMO or MOBA.

 

[Lhynn]

The complaints that Pilllars are full of "awesome buttons" are by far the highest point of mental diarrhea I have ever seen around here, and that says a lot. The problem with the systems is exactly the opposite, everything is so obsessively balanced, nothing is awesome.

BG 1&2 was always about countering awesome with awesome, overpowered with overpowered, which has a side effect of making people delude themselves that they're amazing at video games.

Yes my favourite complaints from the crowd which love BG2 and hate PoE are the complaints also exist in BG2 if not at a greater degree. Don't get me wrong PoE has a lot of shortcomings, both narrative and gameplay wise and plenty of areas those can be improved upon and I don't agree with Sawyer's balance down principle or making rogues, fighters and barbarians magical but it feels to me half the shit people say about PoE are run through a generic complaint creator they copy paste here. My favourite about that would definitely be how generic and bland PoE is when BG2 is literally the cheesy medieval fantasy with clichés upon clichés, I am not saying there is anything bad about that, it has its place but honestly do people even read what they write?

People who wanted a BG3 exactly like BG2 except more content were disappoint, I just don't see why people STILL do this day want to play with 2nd edition D&D ruleset. If you ask me that sort of bound to Pen&paper rulesets were step stones we should moved away from long ago, they are rulesets made for abstracting actions behind dice rolls and built characters with dice rolls to make runs unique and so people don't play with same optimized characters every time. They don't have place in computer games where abstraction calculation can be made automatically by the computer instantaneously and games are made unique by expertise of the writers not quirkiness of the GM. I just don't understand the obsession to have the D&D ruleset in RPG games, nor D&D tropes, do people just want to play nostalgia, not new things?

Also caster classes in PoE can do "awesome" things but by the time you can invoke these awesome buttons game is already about to end. I guess WM solved that problem but it is irrelevant anyway, it is just the same generic complaints about awesome buttons or likening an RPG to a MMO or MOBA. Those became Hitler of RPGs anyway. Don't like a game? Call it a MMO or MOBA.

kill urself

 

[FreeKaner]

kill urself

Almost as original as 2E ruleset.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I tried to build a heavy armor melee priest when I played PoE, but it was really underpowered no matter what I did, so I just put some standard clothes on and started casting spells and lo and behold - a good character. A good character I was building for melee but ended being better at casting spells. So, yes, PoE's system is useless and samey.

The reason a melee Priest will inevitably be weak is:

Deflection 15 (Low)
Accuracy 20 (Very Low)

Whereas as a fighter:

Deflection 30 (Very High)
Accuracy 30 (Very High)

No matter how much he wanted it, Josh couldn't turn this into a classless system.

On the other hand, thanks to the lack of class limitations on equipment, I am able to run around with Aloth wearing a robe and a full plate helmet which gives +3 intellect. So cool.

 

[Lacrymas]

The reason a melee Priest will inevitably be weak is:

Deflection 15 (Low)
Accuracy 20 (Very Low)

Whereas as a fighter:

Deflection 30 (Very High)
Accuracy 30 (Very High)

No matter how much he wanted it, Josh couldn't turn this into a classless system.

On the other hand, thanks to the lack of class limitations on equipment, I am able to run around with Aloth wearing a robe and a full plate helmet which gives +3 intellect. So cool.

My main problem is that the classes were built with a specific role in mind. That's not bad per se, but it devalues, or outright removes, the point of character builds. It doesn't matter what I pick on level-up when the class will end up the same anyway (just like my melee priest ended up casting spells at the back). Contrast this with the cleric in D&D where it can be built for a frontline healer, heavy spellcaster, very efficient melee (in NWN2 for example - cleric/stormlord/bard/RDD) etc. D&D isn't a perfect system but it allowed combinations that could potentially prove interesting and viable.

 

[Theldaran]

Well... you see the thing is BG2 appeared 15+ years ago. A game made today with the lessons learnt correctly could easily surpass it -except it doesn't. Also I've observed, if you go to the RTS zone all of your classics are from the late 90s or the 2000s. In short, today games suck greatly, and they're focused on selling, not being polished or even being a complete product.

No, I don't want a BG3 that's "more of BG2" and I don't want it done by Beamdog, and I don't want it written with today's shitty standards (SJW and so). If BG3 is just more of BG2, I'll play BG2 instead. And dear God, AD&D was what was available at the time, now it should use 5th Edition rules, unless Trent Oster or whomever is a cheap bastard and wants to pay less for the license. Besides, a D&D CRPG ought to have some kind of connection to the current state of the tabletop game. That's how BG1-2 were made (and with an emerging Bioware that wasn't yet full of shit).

The sad thing about D&D is that there is really no big alternative in the field of fantasy roleplaying, there's Pathfinder but that's an spinoff. So even in its deathless state D&D yet reigns.

 

[Theldaran]

to be fair 2e lasted a decade and 3.5 and 4 lasted almost no time at all in comparison.

The differences between TSR's and Wizards' business models are quite clear, plus I can't help but recognize the constant fall in quality for most entertainment since year 2000. But yep, the numbers are there.

Also a modern BG3 will be shitty from the get-go, just look at the sorry state of the FR campaign setting and all the apocalypses they've thrown at Faerûn and how much they've whored the setting. We would rather expect something like an augmented SoD.